2 year grad portolio

[SmallPoly]

@TheMindOfMorris

You seem to have a decent understanding of color theory, but your work is far from perfect.

You also seem to be getting too defensive right now to accept much criticism, but the people that are saying you need to work on your ability to create a strong silhouette are right. Silhouette doesn't just matter for Saturday morning cartoon characters. It is an integral part of the design of everything you see around you - from cars, to shoes, to lamps, to the trademarked iconic shape of the glass coca-cola bottle.

I suppose the thing that bugs me the most about both your 2d and 3d work is that they seem made up of a bunch of rounded shapes that don't have enough detail to be identified as anything. Your designs also seem to lack any sort of clear function. While I don't expect you to run of and get a PHD in mechanical design, you should either focus on making things look like they aren't just glued on randomly, or make things interesting enough to look at that no one will care.

[themindofmorris]

Ok, maybe I got a tad defensive because I thought there were people from the other sites lurking and ready to say rude things about my speech.

I never said I was the ultimate fellow, I am just looking for another job because the one I had went dry.

I apologize, for that.
What would be interesting then?

To tell you the truth, I am alot nicer in person.
I just feel as though sometimes i cannot be the same fellow online.

also i tried to fix the thing like you said

[SmallPoly]

I apologize, for that.
What would be interesting then?

It varies a lot, but generally what you see in science fiction and steam punk falls under this catagory. It can be intricately detailed, have an interesting concept, etc. Basically, the "rule of cool". Other examples include things like Batman's horribly impractical batarang and King Kong being a 50 foot gorilla even though at that size his bones shouldn't be able to support his weight.

This is looking better. I'd probably adjust the contrast & saturation on the bottom left figure to match the upper right one so it doesn't seem so washed out compared to the rest of the image.

[magnut]

To tell you the truth I am a bit perplexed.
Are you referring to the the turn around sheets?

I kinda stopped doing those when I had the confidence to do the characters straight
from base mesh I made.
When in the process of modeling I usually do change my mind upon how the character should look or how much detail should be put in.

I do want to do the character designs too you know?

You must know how the actual process of creating toys work. It's extremely obvious that you don't.

For action figures, you need to understand what goes into the 'buck' design, how the arms and legs attach, how they move, what can be sculpted on the figures vs. what must be stand-alone prop pieces, etc. You need to know how everything is connected within the frame of the action figure, or whatever else you're designing. The fact that you have "kinda stopped doing those" at ANY point, shows that you don't know what you're doing.

Anyone who is looking to hire someone to do designs for their toy company will always look for someone who understands the process. More specifically, someone who understands all the processes for how to design toys, whether they be for promotional "premiums" companies, or the more mainstream toy store-type companies, such as Mattel, Hasbro, Toy Biz, or certainly something as sophisticated as McFarlane toys.

When you unilaterally decide that you're going to do these (what I'll very loosely call) 'pretty pictures', it shows that is only what YOU want to do. Not what you must do in order to make a living designing toys. If this is a hobby for you, then no problem. 'Pretty picture' it up! But don't fool yourself into EVER thinking this has anything to do with professional work.

It doesn't.

Also, if you're selling only your concepts to someone, you still must show - in your concepts & designs - that you know what the process is in the manufacturing of toys. Most times in the professional world, you don't have the choice or luxury to do what you want. You're the paid pencil. You have to do what the client wants. More than that, you must learn to anticipate what the client wants, because many times the client doesn't know what the hell he wants until he sees it, until after you've gone through dozens of designs over weeks and weeks of time. That's a disaster when you're only being paid for the job, and not by the hour.

When you decide that you're going to do only what you want, then that's just plain ignorant arrogance. Now before you get pissed and fake-outrage 'offended' by anything I say, you must also pay close heed to what everyone is telling you on this thread. And stop being (again with the fake outrage and offense) a whiney reactionary to anyone's blunt criticisms. I promise you, you're going to hear a lot of that in life, especially from clients. Thicken up that skin of yours, stop thinking that working professionally is only about what you want to do, and start learning how the business works.

Your work so far shows that you don't know very much. Congratulations for graduating from whatever art school you were at, but I fear that you've not been taught very well if you have no understanding of which I speak. You should have been taught and prepared better.

It doesn't matter that you know how to 3D model these characters you design. If you don't show the client HOW you understand the process of how toys and manufactured, or how the toys would be made from your designs, then you're no good to the client.

I'm just perplexed and want to just find a new place already.

No one knows what that means.

Hitsu San, Shorinji_Knight & SatelliteNoodles gives you good advice, as does SmallPoly. My favorite advice to you is from The Dirt Syndicate. You really need to pay attention to Syndicate's advice about silhouettes. EVERY marketable toy/figure/character's silhouette can be easily recognized. You're wanting to operate in a world where you must be marketable. Your ignorance and arrogance in thinking that you can just walk in and do what you wish, to make up the rules on your own, without learning the fundamentals of the business you claim you wish to participate in; that's incredibly shortsighted and lazy.

Being ignorant is fine. That's the beginning of learning. But when you refuse to learn... well, that's just plain stupid.

And here it is!
Normal norms on the rise.
Judging by how you put things, you are seeing things with a
"Saturday Morning Mindset"
You gotta come in with a warrior's mindset

And I'm seeing old stuff there, I am one of the future,
and don't just include western fellows.

You make no sense. You're spouting gibberish, as if you were still a child. If you don't know this, then I'm beginning to see what your main problem is.

When I think of a character to design, I'm thinking of
BATTLE, SPECIALS, and transformation; not a slapstick type of
dude that looks cute.

I mean what the heck?!
Is it really that hard to understand?
The first character is egg super robot equipped with a cluck cannon,
the second you mentioned was a spheroid warrior who uses pipe propulsion.

Where in the world did you get the idea that it looked like a gorilla?

I'm not sure, this could be meat plot in disguise.

You won't be designing characters for yourself as a freelancer. You'll be doing what you're told by the client. If you're required to do 'cute', then that's what you do.

Prepare yourself: as a freelancer (or if you're lucky enough to get a staff job), EVERY job is going to be different. You'll be called upon to do cute & fluffy things, tween action-adventure hero stuff, maybe something futuristic, maybe something of this or that, or something else. Maybe all in the same assignment! If you cannot provide the kind of designs that the client needs from you... if you do not have the flexibility, or the broad range of ability to do all kinds of styles, then you're going to be out on your ass very quickly.

And the sad part will be, you won't even know why. From your posts, I gather that you would complain that you never got to do what you wanted to do; that you always had to do styles that you hated, or that didn't interest you.

HERE'S A REALITY CHECK FOR YOUR CAREER, OR ANY CREATIVE CAREER:

I have been working as a freelance guy for well over 20 years. Someone said to me one day that he thought I must LOVE everything I do. I DO NOT. He was flabbergasted to hear this. He asked me "why"?!? I told him - as I tell you now - that my career (drawing comic books, storyboarding for advertising, storyboarding for 2D & 3D animation, action-adventure & preschool & adult drama, storyboarding for live-action film, storyboarding for episodic television shows, storyboarding for video game cinematics, character & prop design for animation & live-action film, designing premiums toys for fast food chains, designing other promotional toys, designing logos, environmental design for 2D & 3D animation, designing characters for iPhone apps, orthographic design work for industrial machines, vehicle design, political cartooning, creature design... and a bazillion OTHER things that will take too long to mention here, each job requiring DIFFERENT STYLES!) is being WORK FOR HIRE. Meaning, I go where I am told, I draw what I am told, many times the way I am told to draw it! I have only really LOVED a small number of things I have done, primarily because I wasn't doing them for myself.

What was I doing all this for? TO PAY RENT. TO PAY FOR MY LIFE. The guy I was talking to seemed disappointed, as if he thought that drawing pictures was going to be like going to Disneyland every day of your life. IT ISN'T.

But, I told him - as I tell you now - the most important thing: that on my worst day, my most boring day, when I'm working on a job that's either incredibly difficult, or horribly uninteresting, or that which is under the most horrific deadline... on my very worst day, I'M STILL DRAWING PICTURES FOR A LIVING!

And that's a VERY good thing! THAT is what makes it worthwhile!

So you must (gently or otherwise) understand HOW the business works. HOW toys are made. HOW to present your designs in a professional manner.

Right now, with the way you react to people, and the caliber of your work... I'd say you don't know anywhere NEAR enough to be a working professional.

If you don't wish to be a working pro, and this is a hobby... then fine. We'll all pat you on your head and send you to your corner where you can pretend you're designing things that will be made into toys. It's nice to have a hobby.

But if you wish to work professionally; to make your living off your talents; to be able to pay your rent, pay for your furniture/clothing/car/home/bills/fun with your talents, then you need to put an end to your rank ignorance.

idk at this point it seems like no one will be happy
no matter what i do.

All the people either want meat/death games, woodland fantasy types, or generic items.

No matter what site I am or what ever I produce, people are going to get angry.
This is no good.

No need to be whiney. If anyone's angry at you, it's because you're coming across as an obstinantly ignorant, arrogant ass. Stop it. Besides, we all started the way you are now; thinking we have a grasp on everything we must know, all the while having NO FUCKING CLUE just how ignorant we truly are. That's a very hard pill to swallow, but swallow it you must.

Or use it like a suppository. Doesn't matter.

Acknowledge and recognize what we're all telling you here. It's the best advice from working professionals you're likely to get in a very long time. Certainly the best advice you've been given so far, seeing how those 2 years of art school didn't prepare you for the professional world like they should have.

One last thing:

You act as if you're still in high school. If that's the case, then that's good because you have more time to mature and to study more about how this business is. However, if you're in your mid to late twenties, then I'd say with your current level of knowledge and skill, you're in grave danger of not ever learning what you must to be able to become a professional designer. All the reports I've read (and all the people I've observed) shows that if you haven't developed a strong discipline and knowledge base (including how to be open to learning new things) by the time you're in your late twenties, then you're going to be pretty much stuck on that level for the rest of your life.

You don't want that to happen.

You have talent, and the skill to draw. And if you're able to open your mind, humble yourself into understanding that you do NOT know what you're doing in a professional sense, then you will be able to have a good shot at making your living with your talents. Hopefully you'll also understand that your work isn't just one thing! Your skills and talents could be applied to all kinds - EVERY kind of thing that a freelancer could do (see my above partial work list). YOU ARE LIMITING YOURSELF, AND YOU DON'T EVEN SEEM TO BE AWARE OF IT.

Now you have a choice: waste all your time being defensive, barking at us for giving you advice that you clearly don't want to do the hard work that will make you so much better... or you can accept what we're telling you, and then start moving yourself toward learning HOW THE BUSINESS WORKS!

It's up to you. This is probably the last chance you're going to have to find people who will take the time to give you any advice.

[magnut]

Morris,

I'm very sleepy, especially after spending over 2 hours writing my previous post to you.

I see you graduated 2 years ago, not that you went to art school for 2 years. Got it.

I looked at your website. Much better work there, to be sure. But you still must show - to better present you as a knowledgeable person at a professional quality level - how you understand the process of manufacturing toys.

Take your 10 best character designs, and then do the turnarounds on them. Show in your designs how the toys work; how they move. Remember, you won't be traveling with your designs to Korea or wherever they will be sculpted & manufactured. Your work must speak for itself. THAT's how good a job you must do with everything you design.

After you get those character designs done that way, then do the same for props & vehicle designs. Do a total of 10 of those combined.

Then do 10 different environments.

Then, take your favorite live-action television series, something that everyone would recognize. For instance, let's say you pick The Sopranos. Then you make FIVE different style versions of character designs, as if you were going to each version differently:

1) As if they were designed for an Anime series (which one? Pokemon? Something that resembles the style from Ponyo? Akira?)
2) As if they were going to be made by McFarlane Toys (very realistic, with poseable parts)
3) As if they were going to be animated in the 1970's Hanna Barbera style
4) As if they were being designed in the style of Bruce Timm's Justice League animation work
5) As if they were being designed in the fashion of Spongebob Squarepants

Include several environments (no more than 3) for each category.

DO YOUR RESEARCH ON HOW PROFESSIONAL DESIGN WORK IS DONE.

(Remember, each character/prop/vehicle set must show the turnarounds - side view, straight-on, back & 3/4!)

What's the purpose of this? TO SHOW THAT YOU HAVE RANGE. To show that you can take a concept and run with it in many different directions! You MUST see how this will make you look like you can do ANYTHING, yes?

The more you expand your range, the more you are able to do SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS! Toy design IS NOT THE ONLY THING YOU CAN DO WHEN YOU DEVELOP YOUR SKILLS. YOU DO NOT WANT TO LIMIT YOURSELF TO JUST TOY DESIGN.

Open your mind. Then getcher butt to learning... well, EVERYTHING!

Good luck.

[Shorinji_Knight]

The thing about critiques you have to remember is:
If 1 or 2 people say the samething it might just be their opinion, but if 3 or more people say the samething its probably a problem.

Critiques are not pleasent nor are they supposed to be. They are supposed to help you grow as an artist. If people here just wanted to upset you they wouldn't have invested sooo much time and effort in their critiques. Some of these have been exellent insights into the professional world. Don't take them personal nobody here knows anything about you -- except how you act HERE.

Also, Nobody here makes fun of polite, respectful, professional people looking for honest feedback. However this place turns into a den of sharks when people don't act in this manner. conceptart.org is not like most sites, there're Tons of pros here. This is where you HAVE to behave yourself or destroy your reputation in the industry.

Take the advise they've given you, say thank you and use it to make your art great.

[magnut]

You know, I think Morris has decided not to engage with us anymore.

That's too bad, since we're all sitting here trying to help him out.

[themindofmorris]

nope making things, (started this before I saw today's post)


a couple of buildings

(have an enviornment, but i am not near the scanner

wait wait, I think I didn't word things correctly. I do many primary sketches and different angles of the characters, I just don't do turnaround guides for myself to import into the 3d program when I am sculpting them any more.

I mean, I have worked on other things,I worked on a couple of commericials, modeled some characters for a casino game and did building layouts in 3d.

I make a prop once in awhile (not often though) . I am just not trying to make the same things here, I try to do somethings based of different shows.

(the examples that I posted here on the site were from a robot show I saw my brothers watching, and I decided to take a shot at it, something different than the usual monsters)

I usually check if the silhouette works in static poses, perhaps it doesn't work if they are in other poses I put them in.


idk this is perplexing. I am not sure if I should be the rude dude online or not, either
it seems as though if I am nice people don't respond or are rude, but if I get rude more people tend to say more things or notice.

I am not rude, I wanted to see if this one worked and it did.

[SmallPoly]

idk this is perplexing. I am not sure if I should be the rude dude online or not, either
it seems as though if I am nice people don't respond or are rude, but if I get rude more people tend to say more things or notice.

I am not rude, I wanted to see if this one worked and it did.

Some of it may be people following the trend from the first page, since people don't always read everything before posting. Making some kind of note in the first post could help reset the tone for the thread.

As for the art in the post, it looks like these are straight from your imagination, and possibly a first pass. Do you use reference images when working? You may find them useful to help add in some details you might not have thought of on your own. One way I like to work is to do the first draft purely from imagination, do some studies of the reference material, then make the 2nd draft adding in additional detail as needed. Basically, work in multiple iterations.

It seems like you could benefit from doing more observational drawing (helps anatomy and believable detail) and from doing some studies of accomplished artists with similar styles.

[themindofmorris]

yeah these were to get the ideas out of my head not the finished project.
I usually do get reference from books or from famous fellows to get the right light or poses

this time around I was looking at face esque buildings and things from the mushroom kingdom. As for 3d they always look different when they are lit and posed

[Hitsu//San]

y
I usually do get reference from books or from famous fellows to get the right light or poses

Do you know what does this mean?

[SmallPoly]

Do you know what does this mean?

"I procure my reference from various books and tomes, and occasionally from the work of accomplished artists if I am struggling with lighting or poses."

[magnut]

I believe Morris simply doesn't wish to address the specific things we are talking with him about.

It is as if he does not care about the very good information we are giving him. It's easy to assume he does not wish to talk about the important things regarding becoming a working professional.

I think we've all wasted our time with Morris. He only cares about fooling himself into believing he's on a path to becoming a toy designer, thinking that doing only his own designs will get him by in life, even though he clearly doesn't know what the hell he's doing. Nor does it seems he cares to respect our trying to help him.

Too bad. What a waste of time.

[SmallPoly]

@magnut
I feel like I'm white-knighting here. After the stuff first page, Morris's tone became fairly neutral. The criticism he's received is fairly valid, but the snarkiness of it appeared to put him on the defensive.

@themindofmorris
I'm sure you don't need me coming to your "rescue", so if that's annoying, sorry. Maybe it's too late for this thread. From here I'd recommend putting up a sketchbook thread and doing some of the competitions. Creature of the Week could be a good fit. The prompts are usually pretty interesting. You could probably benefit from Spartain Camp as well. Challenge yourself, draw from life, and do some things that break out of your comfort zone.

[elephant´s stroke]

I read the Magnut´s long post with such a great inputs and advices that i myself not being the OP will have then in mind, thinking that themindofmorris finally would get what everyone is saying. Then, the OP post something ignoring the Magnut advices, advices that represent two hours of a professional taking the time to go in depth about incredible relevant stuff.
As the OP likes to say "I¨M PERPLEXED".

The problem is that you OP, wasn´t honest in the very first place by posting your drawings in the review section because is obvious that you feel pretty good about what you do and you just wanted to hear people saying so.
And since we are here, is true that some of the designs specially the egg aparatus are confusing with zero jerarquy in every aspect, is just a mix of collors and shapes all over the place. I would take the profession seriously instead of having the wannabe attitude, and you should thank Magnut and all the others to be so patient with you and for giving you great advice.
I´m gratefull that you opned this thread though with your impossible arguments, because i learned a lot about how to improve (form the others) and how not to improve (from you).
I hope that even if you now get furious, frustrated, insecure about all of this harshness, at least in some days, weeks, months or (hope not)...years, you will understand the pourpose of the advice words saying here, and realize that were the best thing that could happen to open your eyes and make you a better professional and designer.

[magnut]

SmallPoly,

The snarkiness has nothing to do with anything. We're all helping this guy, and he's simply not responding. It's obvious he doesn't care to.

And that's sad that he won't even TRY to acknowledge what we're talking about. All he does is to be defensive for no good reason. He needs to act like an adult who is serious about learning new things, especially when people are giving him excellent advice.

Also, it is NOT "too late for this thread". What is this bullshit about people being so goddamned sensitive? No one treated him badly. No one hurt him or abused him. No one did anything other than to offer their wisdom to what we now see is an immature brat. Anything Morris is 'offended' by is nothing to actually be offended by. It's fake outrage.

Morris clearly doesn't have a working vocabulary when it comes to talking about what it takes to prepare himself to become a working professional. He's gonna need that good vocabulary when he actually tries to get work doing any kind of toy design. He's reacting to everyone as if he's a child. In fact, if he only graduated high school 2 years ago (something he never made quite clear), then that means he actually is still a kid. He just needs to grow up, is all. When he does, he'll realize that he missed a great opportunity to learn vitally important things that can help him out in preparing for a career of illustration & design.

You shouldn't equivocate for Morris. You shouldn't make excuses for him. He should happily receive what knowledge we're passing on to him, but all he chooses to do is be an oversensitive person who is reacting all the wrong ways. Even in his last several posts, he chooses not to even acknowledge the very specific helpful things we are telling him.

He is choosing not to be receptive. All he wants to do is post his work and have people only to give him praise. He can't handle criticism like a mature serious person.

Sigh.

[SmallPoly]

Also, it is NOT "too late for this thread". What is this bullshit about people being so goddamned sensitive? No one treated him badly. No one hurt him or abused him. No one did anything other than to offer their wisdom to what we now see is an immature brat. Anything Morris is 'offended' by is nothing to actually be offended by. It's fake outrage.

I'll clarify. I was attempting to say that it may be "too late" for this thread to redirect it's tone into something less confrontational where morris can shake the perception that he is immature. Saying this looked like that kind of turnaround to me:

Ok, maybe I got a tad defensive because I thought there were people from the other sites lurking and ready to say rude things about my speech.

The criticism itself is great, being talked down to can be fairly offensive, it does seem like he could use a thicker skin, and the work that he posted doesn't really seem like something you'd find in a professional portfolio.

[magnut]

SmallPoly,

Then Morris needs to start engaging with us very soon, because I know at least my patience has been worn down pretty quickly by his attitude. No one is motivated to help someone who's just plain ungrateful.

I don't care about Morris's speech patterns or his syntax. I care that he actually communicates. So far, he's treating us all like we're other people who have treated him badly, and we are NOT those people.

[look]

Im perplexed as well. Why are we rewarding rude and arrogant people? This is the second thread I've seen with this happenned since I come back to conceptart a month ago.
Rude people gets tons more replies and critiques, even redline and paintovers, while polite and sincere folks get a fraction of the attention.
Can we please stop rewarding the rude and arrogant? If two posts are not enough to bring them around, why would 20 posts help?
Can we please post more for people with open mind and is eager to learn?

[Shorinji_Knight]

Most people only need to be told once. They take the advice to heart and make improvement. I know when I had my portfolio reviewed awhile back, I only had 5 replies, but they were exactly what I needed. Most of the posts here are just rewording and expanding explanations. I have found some of these to be full of very good info that I think will benefit my own work.

[Triplaneta]

@ magnut
That post is very informative, thank you!

how do you do sir?

What?

EDIT: Oh yeah... if you only expect people to praise your work then maybe you should stay on DeviantART or some other site. I'm guessing you didn't expect to get bombarded with critiques here, well that's what most people came here for.

[magnut]

Im perplexed as well. Why are we rewarding rude and arrogant people? This is the second thread I've seen with this happenned since I come back to conceptart a month ago.
Rude people gets tons more replies and critiques, even redline and paintovers, while polite and sincere folks get a fraction of the attention.
Can we please stop rewarding the rude and arrogant? If two posts are not enough to bring them around, why would 20 posts help?
Can we please post more for people with open mind and is eager to learn?

It's not about rewarding someone for being a rude, immature jerk. It's about trying to teach someone something, all the while hoping that this person will have the sudden realization that he's handling the situation all wrong.

I happened upon this thread because a friend was totally bewildered at Morris's terrible attitude. That's why I've focused on this thread, as I've focused on others (take a look at my posting history, you'll see what I mean).

[magnut]

[magnut]

Ladies & Gentlemen - Astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson:

[themindofmorris]

WOW the fact that a thread can go on like this go on for days
without any content being posted really says something about the demographic of this site.

I didn't even say anything that harsh in retrospect, you folks just seem eager to pounce on
anyone who doesn't hear your train of thought or artistic methods.

If I'm the one with manners of a whipped mule and my nose in the clouds, then why is that
you all come here cursing up a storm, making ignorant assumptions, and saying
I'm not a professional. Seems like a forum hivemind of double standards and general animosity
toward anyone that doesn't fill their hateful quota.

Where do you people get the right to say I'm in "danger" and I'm not listening to anyone?
If I took into account every surly elder's comments about how I'd never be able to do anything
with my pieces I would have given up a long time ago.

What disgusts me even more are the bandwagon "starters" who feel the need to jeer
and concoct their own words to make themselves feel better.

I don't give a rat's rear end what some sparkly fantasy cosplay buff or some meathead nra/gun nut
thinks of what I do or where I'm going; I've had jobs, I'm getting commissions and I am doing something
with my life.

Also it turns out I am alot more productive when I don't hang around general forum
personalities who feel the need to jeer at everything and everyone that isn't in their
narrow mental bracket. I've done quite a few things I won't be sharing with you
in my period of absence; I feel as though I shall continue to be absent.
I do thank those who said something productive though.

[ikken]

wow Morris, you've been much less of a dick on polycount
why the sudden rage flashes here?

[themindofmorris]

I'm cutting the abuse off at the head
I'm not going to be jeered at like I was there.
No longer will threads be about my use of the word "fellow".
I know who I am and what I do, and I'm putting my foot down.

I think I maybe generally done with forums

[Shorinji_Knight]

Sheesh... If you didn't want honest feedback why did you post you work in The Portfolio Review section? Now you've just responded by insulting everyone who gave you the time of day.

[themindofmorris]

It never seems to end with you people
you'll always see it from some warped view point.

I disagree with something that was said and it's a huge deal to you people
and you feel the need to backlash. People on forums generally seem to be hateful.

[Shorinji_Knight]

Have a happy Easter, Good luck with your life.