Yochanan sketchbook (newbie)

[yochanan]

Hey everyone! I've been encouraged to start a sketchbook even though I really don't have anything worth showing yet. But hopefully this will help me motivate me to get better and I'm sure it will be helpful in the long run.

I started drawing about 2 weeks ago, so please don't expect anything wild! So far I've pretty much just copied and drawn from books (a manga book that I've quit and now I'm trying Andrew Loomis "Fun with a Pencil" and trying different exercises I can find). Anyways enough excuses, here we go!

I'll start off with pretty much everything I drew since I started (#1 is the first piece of paper!), since there's a bit of it. Most of it is just simple manga faces and stuff.



The last one is just trying out a drawing program on iPod and a birthday card I made for a friend on request.

I'll try to update this daily (maybe even later tonight), I was recommended to do that and I guess when I think about it, it's a good way to keep me drawing! Hope it's not a bother.

Thank you!
-Yochanan

[Jonas_J]

Skriver på engelsk så andre også kan være med:

Great to see that you have started out drawing! Here are some general tips for improving:
a) drop the manga unless of course manga is what you want to be good at drawing, but since your here on CA im assuming that you want to draw "realistic"/good in general.
b) draw from life! The single most important thing if you want to improve. If you take the train/bus to and from Niels Brock then thats a perfect time for drawing the other commuters. Also a mirror for doing self portrait will help you alot.
c) Have a plan. it's a good idea to give your self homework, like: every day draw atleast 1 page of Loomis studies and 1 page of posemaniacs (10-20 per page, depending on how small you draw).
d) posemaniacs: http://www.posemaniacs.com/?pagename=thirtysecond
Start at 90 secs. then gradually as you improve, decrease the time.
e) master studies. Some body did a nice drawing? copy/study it!
f) Loomis and Bridgeman are gods. Find their books and study from them (here: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=131116)

That should get you off to a good start! Hope to see more!

Forresten, så få dig noget ordentligt tegnepapir linieret skrivepapir er ikke så fedt at tegne på. Ved at der ligger en god tegnebutik inde ved Storkespringvandet (København), men der er også sketchbooks i hver "bog&ide".

[yochanan]

Skriver på engelsk så andre også kan være med:

Great to see that you have started out drawing! Here are some general tips for improving:
a) drop the manga unless of course manga is what you want to be good at drawing, but since your here on CA im assuming that you want to draw "realistic"/good in general.
b) draw from life! The single most important thing if you want to improve. If you take the train/bus to and from Niels Brock then thats a perfect time for drawing the other commuters. Also a mirror for doing self portrait will help you alot.
c) Have a plan. it's a good idea to give your self homework, like: every day draw atleast 1 page of Loomis studies and 1 page of posemaniacs (10-20 per page, depending on how small you draw).
d) posemaniacs: http://www.posemaniacs.com/?pagename=thirtysecond
Start at 90 secs. then gradually as you improve, decrease the time.
e) master studies. Some body did a nice drawing? copy/study it!
f) Loomis and Bridgeman are gods. Find their books and study from them (here: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=131116)

That should get you off to a good start! Hope to see more!

Forresten, så få dig noget ordentligt tegnepapir linieret skrivepapir er ikke så fedt at tegne på. Ved at der ligger en god tegnebutik inde ved Storkespringvandet (København), men der er også sketchbooks i hver "bog&ide".

Tak for tippet, havde faktisk noget skitsepapir liggende ovenpå, så vil prøve at holde mig til det fra nu. Skal jeg bruge det til hurtige skitser også (posemaniacs) eller kun til Loomis og lign.?

I dropped the manga already, actually I haven't drawn it much since I created a user here and found out I'm pretty much the only one who's doing it! You're right that it's not my goal to be good at drawing manga, I just thought it would be best to start off with something simple to keep me motivated.

Now on drawing from life, I really have no clue about shading or perspective. Will this be a problem? I haven't practiced it yet so I didn't know if it was too early hehe. I've tried to make sure I draw a page or two every day already, so I think simply transitioning to drawing different "homework" won't be a problem!

One last question, when you say Loomis study... What is that exactly? Just drawing from any of his books? I attached everything I've drawn today so far, the faces are from his beginner book. But I'm guessing that's not really what I should be going for then huh? The shading was from a beginner classroom I found around here somewhere, if anyone needs the link I'll try and look for it.

Anyways thanks a lot man, I'll try this posemaniac thing right away!



I had no idea how to do the shadows properly, especially the top one (trying to cast shadow onto another object). I'll nail it some day haha!

[krel]

Hey mate, good seeing you started the sketchbook!

I get a feeling that people who say "drop the manga" dont really know much about it, and probably think all manga is like the big eyed nonsense you get feeded in Europe/America most times. So, yeah Sailor Moon or Pokemon is probably not a good thing to copy (:

But if you manage to draw like 沙村広明 (samura hiroaki), and dont think as many people will complain (:

That being said, Im not a big fan of manga but I dont think you should bunch everything together and call it "bad art".
Beneath is an example of manga that I do like, and think has rather amazing art. (Couldnt find very good pictures..)

無限の住人 (Blade of the Immortal)

[yochanan]

Hey mate, good seeing you started the sketchbook!

I get a feeling that people who say "drop the manga" dont really know much about it, and probably think all manga is like the big eyed nonsense you get feeded in Europe/America most times. So, yeah Sailor Moon or Pokemon is probably not a good thing to copy (:

But if you manage to draw like 沙村広明 (samura hiroaki), and dont think as many people will complain (:

That being said, Im not a big fan of manga but I dont think you should bunch everything together and call it "bad art".
Beneath is an example of manga that I do like, and think has rather amazing art. (Couldnt find very good pictures..)

無限の住人 (Blade of the Immortal)

Hey Krel, thanks for posting!

I think you're right about the manga, not all is "bad art" for sure! I wasn't trying to put it down or anything, but it's true that I probably won't learn as much from drawing manga as practicing perspective etc.. I might look more into it later, when I'm more set in the traditional techniques but for now I'll follow everyones advice and try to practice from Loomis.

Nice pictures btw, it seems to have something Pokemon doesn't haha! I've never seen much manga or anime so I don't know much, except when people in class are watching it.

[krel]

Hey mate, put the Sketchbook in your signature. Makes it easier for people to find it if you post anywhere else.

Yeah, I think we prett much agree on the manga/anime, its just people who say ALL MANGA = BAD ART who makes me alittle cranky. Ignorance is not always bliss (:

Your shadows definitly have problems. Sadly, I couldnt tell you in what way, haha.
Alittle too long, and too sharp corners maybe?

[yochanan]

Hey mate, put the Sketchbook in your signature. Makes it easier for people to find it if you post anywhere else.

Yeah, I think we prett much agree on the manga/anime, its just people who say ALL MANGA = BAD ART who makes me alittle cranky. Ignorance is not always bliss (:

Your shadows definitly have problems. Sadly, I couldnt tell you in what way, haha.
Alittle too long, and too sharp corners maybe?

Hey man, yeah I noticed other people do that, I'll put in there now.

I know what you're saying, then again art is an individual thing. Some things might be art to me or you that isn't to other people, and the other way around!

Yeah the shadows are pretty long now that you say it. It depends on where the "light source" is, but a shadow that long on a cube probably isn't very typical. I tried using the guidelines I could find, so the shadow itself should be correct but I might've misunderstood something, and even to me there are some pretty obvious flaws, like the shadow not having consistent values and especially the top one not fading in with the shape of the other object. It was my first time drawing shadows though, so when I've learnt some actual theory about it I'll post some shading studies again!

I've been pretty busy with homework today and might have to carry on with it later too, but if I have time left I'm gonna check out one of the other Loomis books, probably the figure drawing one. I tried posemaniacs last night but I really need some basic anatomy and perspective before I benefit from it. One pose ended up okay-ish, but still way too flat and shapeless.

I posted in your SB btw, although I did't have much criticism for you! Take it as a compliment.

[NanoBlack]

Hmmmm, definitely agreed. DROP THE MANGA! ITS NOT WORTH IT!!! I've seen many of my friends who were brilliant artists go down the dark path of manga, and ever since, they just copy from their fave animes. Completely destroyed.

Start with basic stuff (which i see you're doing already, good on ya) and then start drawing from life. My single worst mistake i made as an artist (a sucky one nevertheless) is that I learned from a book the basic ideas, then never got up to the "perspective" chapter. So, i simply can't draw perspective stuff.

WE CAN LEARN TOGETHER!!!!!

Just remember to doodle every day, even just one little thing if that's all you have time for. Keep practicing. Practice practice practice. Bored in lesson/lecture/lunchbreak? Doodle what you're eating. Or what you'd like to be eating. Stuck with an unstable PC? draw what you want your pc to look like. THe important thing is to choose something you can really "get into", because otherwise you run the risk of just leaving it be rather than finishing it. I know from experience

[yochanan]

Hmmmm, definitely agreed. DROP THE MANGA! ITS NOT WORTH IT!!! I've seen many of my friends who were brilliant artists go down the dark path of manga, and ever since, they just copy from their fave animes. Completely destroyed.

Start with basic stuff (which i see you're doing already, good on ya) and then start drawing from life. My single worst mistake i made as an artist (a sucky one nevertheless) is that I learned from a book the basic ideas, then never got up to the "perspective" chapter. So, i simply can't draw perspective stuff.

WE CAN LEARN TOGETHER!!!!!

Just remember to doodle every day, even just one little thing if that's all you have time for. Keep practicing. Practice practice practice. Bored in lesson/lecture/lunchbreak? Doodle what you're eating. Or what you'd like to be eating. Stuck with an unstable PC? draw what you want your pc to look like. THe important thing is to choose something you can really "get into", because otherwise you run the risk of just leaving it be rather than finishing it. I know from experience

Manga dropped already! Although ever since I dropped the Loomis cartoon book I didn't get to draw a single line until this evening (but hey at least I didn't let go several hours!). I can totally relate to the perspective thing, I saw that coming even with the first manga book I started out with, and with the first Loomis book. I'm up for learning and motivating each other though 110%!

I like your drawing ideas, I don't think I'd actually be able to get into much else than books and stuff like that at this point! Which seems to work very well for me though, I spent all the hours drawing in the evening / night (it's 3am here now) on a SINGLE Loomis anatomy study. I'm assuming that's big-time overkill but hey, it was the first one and I kept wanting to change things! Still has messed up waist-ratio and weird arms and chest in the front, legs look weird in side, overpowered calves la-de-da-de-da, but it got much quicker after the front view. Hopefully it'll be LOADS faster next time and I'll try not to get as distracted, definitely felt like I learnt a lot from it.

How much time do any of you guys usually spend on a "study"? And is it more beneficial do you feel, to do as many quick sketches as you can or try to perfect each and every one of them? I want to nail my proportions as fast as possible but also maintain a decent work rate!

Gonna try to get some doodling done tomorrow too, have to celebrate my birthday in the evening though (presents yay!) but I'll try my best to get something done in the morning and post it.

Now it's time to get some sleep though, so goodnight!

[J.R.Hollis]

HAH, i still have that book you drew that chibi dude from at the top.

Its a small world.

And I'm glad you dropped Manga, time for the real art!
(Not that some anime isn't great, like Spirited Away.)

Oh and I'll give you a nice trick I use:

What Ive been doing is using Windows Word to make a proportion chart, and make sure that every lines spaces are equal. Then mass copy, so I made myself a worksheet of sorts.

[krel]

From a beginner to another; I also spent LOADS of time doing my first Loomis studies. But as you say, it feels good to do your best and really try to get it right.
I think thats a big part of learning. You see that it doesnt look right, and you try to fix it. The next time you will have those mistakes in mind, and avoid them from the beginning.

Your first Loomis studies looks like mine did. Something wrong with the waist and hips. I think the middle one (side) looks best.
One thing ive noticed about myself is that I often draw vertical lines at the wrong angle. Look closely and youll see that alot of vertical lines are not really that vertical. They should often be more diagonal then your mind tells you.
I hope that made any sense, haha.

Also step away at times. Go get a cup of tea or something. When you come back, and study your whole drawing you will see things that you probably tried to ignore earlier. So take a step back, and look at the proportion of the whole study, not just the small are where you draw at the moment.

Phew (:

[yochanan]

AzuzaPesant: The Katy Coope book, yep it sure is a small world! So far I've been enjoying the two Loomis studies I've done, even though it sure is easier to make manga look fancy. The word document trick was a really good idea, I think I'm gonna try it! I've wasted a lot of time just setting up the lines so far, measuring measuring measuring.

Krel: It's so good to hear I'm not the only one! These studies are the first thing where I keep feeling like something should be changed, where it's not easier to just draw it from scratch again. And I actually really enjoy it, it means it's a challenge I guess! I actually did notice that my lines were way off, so I didn't make that mistake with the next one I did earlier today. Just have to keep trying like everyone else!

Here's some of todays work, unfortunately I didn't have as much time for this one as yesterday, so I did have to rush it in the end if I wanted to finish in one setting. The back was way off (since that was the last part!), the chest in the front, shoulders in front and back and I'm also not satisfied with the arms in any of the views. They just don't seem to flow very well together and are too skinny in some areas, too flat in others. I think drawing the female figure was pretty challenging compared to male, at least getting the right "flow" was extremely difficult for me.

I'm gonna try again tomorrow though, where I'll also get a chance to try out my new scanner, and hopefully won't have to rush it! Picture will have to do for now, goodnight everybody.

[andres333]

practice structure, in the canon above the hip is too narrow, if you use structure you won't have that sort of mistakes

[yochanan]

practice structure, in the canon above the hip is too narrow, if you use structure you won't have that sort of mistakes

What exactly is structure? In the female drawing the hips SHOULD be pretty much spot on, since I used exactly one and a half heads, I think they look small because the upper body is too wide. Anyways if you could come with an example or anywhere in the Loomis book where it's described that'd me very much appreciated!

[Jonas_J]

I think what andres333 means by structure is to break down the human form in basic shapes, like bridgeman does it:
Bridgman, George B., 1939. The Human Machine.
http://www.archive.org/details/human...ethea009564mbp

Bridgman, George B., 1920. Constructive anatomy
http://www.archive.org/details/const...anat00briduoft

Especially constrictive anatomy is good (save the "pdf" on the left side of the screen on that page)

[yochanan]

I think what andres333 means by structure is to break down the human form in basic shapes, like bridgeman does it:
Bridgman, George B., 1939. The Human Machine.
http://www.archive.org/details/human...ethea009564mbp

Bridgman, George B., 1920. Constructive anatomy
http://www.archive.org/details/const...anat00briduoft

Especially constrictive anatomy is good (save the "pdf" on the left side of the screen on that page)

Thanks man! I haven't had a look at Bridgman yet, since I've been told it's a bit harder to get into compared to Loomis and I'm only just getting started with Loomis. I don't know myself though, so maybe it's better to try out Bridgman?

Anyways here's todays work! Did some shading stuff at school, still not that happy with shadows but hey didn't really get to spend a lot of time on it! I think the train is a little shaky for drawing too, which should show in a few of those.

Also got some Loomis in there, did the "normal / dumpy" and another "idealistic", actually finished the normal one yesterday but didn't get to upload it. Still could do with some tweaking, might polish it then since I'm gonna be drawing the 8½ head next to it, and if I have time I'll try the heroic one too.

Thanks for all the great replies so far, it's really appreciated and you have all been so helpful!

[yochanan]

Did some more Loomis today and tried to fix the last one up a bit.

[Bombur]

Proportions are getting better! Keep doing the Loomis studies.

Also, in case you need a good book on perspective, check out Perspective Made Easy by Ernest Norling.

Lastly, cheers for visiting my sketchbook!

[yochanan]

Proportions are getting better! Keep doing the Loomis studies.

Also, in case you need a good book on perspective, check out Perspective Made Easy by Ernest Norling.

Lastly, cheers for visiting my sketchbook!

Thank you! I was sick today so had a chance to work a bit with it. I'm gonna try and get another Loomis study done tomorrow. I'll check that book out for sure, I think it might be good to do something other than cubes, spheres and Loomis studies. I'm getting to some perspective in Loomis soon though, so we'll see.

I'll check back on your sketchbook, always nice to see other people progressing!

[krel]

Yup, proportions definitly getting better! Keep going mate.

Even if you dont draw any of the proportion stuff by Loomis, read it and try to understand it. Its very good as a quick course in perspective, and gives you some basic knowledge when you start to read a book on perspective later on.

[ColorExcursion]

Heyyy there,
Awesome progression! Would like to see you do some gestures from posemaniacs
Keep goin!

[yochanan]

ColorExcursion: Hello! Thanks that's really nice to hear. I really wanna get started with posemaniacs too, I just don't think I'm ready for it yet. I don't have a lot of sense for perspective yet and haven't practiced any real poses, I'm gonna give the Loomis poses a go soon though and maybe after I'll get started with posemaniacs!

Krel: Thanks man, unfortunately been having a bad week, drawing wise. So really no progression at all since last update. I guess when you're constantly doing these studies hour after hour it doesn't take much to just get so frustrated you don't get anything done, at least in my case. I still want to draw though, determined not to let my flaws get to me and just keep going.

I still don't understand the Loomis proportion/perspective thing with the diagonals and all, but gonna try to at least read through some of it tonight and gonna get up early in the morning, finish homework and try to figure it out. If you know what he actually does and can explain it quickly that'd be very much appreciated, as it seems a lot of the remaining perspective stuff relies on finding those lines, if you know what I mean.

Anyways enough rambling for today, gonna look over the book and mark the stuff I think is relevant (things I might draw) and hopefully will get started again tomorrow.

[yochanan]

Alright done for today (unless I can't fall asleep!). Now I tried to do everything pretty quickly, so yeah it's not as good as the other ones, proportions are off etc. but I was mostly focused on understanding the principle of especially perspective and I think I'm finally beginning to understand it... a bit. Might try these a few more times.

Least I got started, and gonna try to get stuff done through out next week, will try to take more time for the next update!

[yochanan]

What I got done in school today, unfortunately really busy so can't get much done outside of school. Hopefully tomorrow, and can work more on proportions.

[andres333]

I can see there's a significant advance, keep it up!, remember human is a bilateral being.

[yochanan]

Another day at business school! I'm really tired so not gonna get any more done other than this. Sorry! Perspective was hard as usual and don't think I have a full understanding of shapes and WHY I'm drawing a line a particular way. I'm trying to though and if nothing else, I'm getting a better sense of proportions I guess!



andres333: Thanks a lot man, you have no idea how big a difference that makes, with the little energy I have left over these days to draw! Makes me very happy I signed up here, or I would've probably just quit after drawing manga for another week. Yeah the symmetry and length of arms, legs, width of shoulders etc. isn't really spot-on yet. It might not show but I'm getting things done a lot quicker now than the first tries. So hopefully will improve too!

GOODNIGHT!

[yochanan]

Today I got my Bamboo Pen! Got to try it out a little bit, nothing great. Just wanted to try out what it was like to draw some basic things with it, but it's definitely different than using a pencil. Not as different as I thought it would be though! I got started on some pencil stuff today too which I'll finish tomorrow and post then.

[ArrAy]

Nice improvement. I got a bamboo too, u get used to it pretty fast.
uh right have to resize my images now
(and of course some anatomy practice -.-)
see you around my danish friend, hope i can go there on vacation next year

[varible76]

You know what I like about your sketchbook post is you continue to explore and improve your drawings. The more you draw, the more you get better at it.

I got a bamboo too, but I don't draw on it, I just paint on top of a scanned drawing. Going totally digital is still uncomfortable to me. I'll make that transaction soon enough.

[yochanan]

ArrAy: Thanks man! That's great, where in Denmark are you planning to go?

varible76: Woah really? That makes me want to draw even more, thanks! Yeah digital is a lot different. It's still a LOT easier for me to draw with a pencil, and will continue to do studies with pencil and paper (can't bring my tablet to school anyways). Might do some digital from time to time though, since I plan doing a lot more digital once I get the basics down!

Couldn't fall asleep after I woke up at 3AM, so decided to try out some more digital! Did this weird tree-monster or something, wanted to get a better feel of the pressure sensitivity, so used the same brush and the same colors etc. for all of it.



Gotta get ready for school, will try and post tonight as well.