WIP Cutthroat

[Marty666]

Hi all!

Here's a work in progress. I'm trying to paint everything in one layer and just paint over it if it didn't work out. Areas that still need attention are the hands (all of them) The guys clothes And the values of the background. Maybe I'll put some more texture on there. Her arm is allready a bit too long, but still not long enough to have her hand hold his chin. I think I will have to go selecting, dragging and cleaning up, since everything is in one layer.... I know I should plan a piece, especially in one layer, but it doesn't seem to work for me. I rather start with some ramdom shapes. Anyways, all crits are very welcome. Here it is:

[Shamagim]

Just keep going, no point of specting crits if is not finished yet.

Looks nice so far.

[Ive]

The guy's head is too close to the right shoulder, it should be more to the left and down. Also if he has that ambient blue light on his nose, he should have it on his cheeks and jacket too. I'd say if your going for strong shadows you toss that out.
nice idea

[Marty666]

Thanx for the crits ive! I'm not sure about the head myself, because it is supposed to be tilted a bit to his right shoulder and a bit upward, because she pushes his head to be able to cut his throat. You're right about the ambient light. It helpes define the face, but I don't really want too much going on in the bottom left corner, so maybe i'll darken it up or leave it, as you suggested.... thanx again for taking the time!

[Carnifex]

push him more towards her,because as you said that arm is already too long. she should definately be facing him more,if not with her whole body,then atleast turn her head around more. right now it looks more like she's grabbin a fly or something next to his head

[Infinit]

his expression doesn't say " she wants to kill me! danm I gone die" but "hey nice knife is it stainless? and what's your number btw?"

[s.ketch]

Try making her more sinister. Maybe have her really close to him or somthing, maybe grabbing his collar to bring him closer. I also think the direction of her body is off, it doesnt look like shes is ready to shift her weight should she actually stab, or slash the guy. I like the colors and the texture you go going on so far.

[ScaryPotato]

Good advice from everyone so far, I think with the guy's expression, instead of having his eyebrows in a bit of a confused/angry position, try having them tilt the opposite direction to make him look more pathetic and sad. It looks like she is just tilting his head with her fingertips, is she supposed to be gentle like that? I think if she were to grab his jaw to turn his head it might look a little more suiting. Nice work so far though.

[Serena-]

I agree with the crits of her hand and knife placement.

I like the idea so far either way though. I believe by putting her hand on his chin it'll balance her arms as well. Her arm positioning looks awkward right now.

I love the detailing/look on her face.

[Justin.]

aside from maybe pushing the BG back a bit with desaturation or something, it looks pretty good. Keep workin on it!

[dCepT]

Agreed on the faces comments... I like hers, but his could be more panicky... Maybe open his mouth more?

I'm actually working on a piece that is vaguely in the same ballpark Check out my sketchbook... and you're welcome to leave a crit on mine... hehe

d-C

[RobHughes]

Good work so far but I'm just not feeling it.

The drawing is competant but you have avoided the hard bits like fingers and thumbs.

Shes just playing. She is no real threat to him as he could easily avoid the blade and overpower her .A grown man would struggle and fight. Even a quick swipe accross the neck from the front "by suprise" is avoided automaticaly.

The scene is unconvincing. Like bad porn it's staged to look real but fails 'cause it lacks the grist and grit of real life.

That's not how you cut someones throat either. To be most effective the cut should be from behind and the victims head should be pushed forwards and down to avoid the trachia impeading the blades progress througn both ateries.

Just so y' know

rob

[Justin.]

As a response to Rob-

Judging by the competence of the piece I find it hard to second guess their postures- the guy seems to have his hand in his pocket or something- and I'm sure if the woman was trying to be a threat, the knife would be alot further up along the neck. The guy looks more calm and inquisitive, as if the girl is trying to flick an ant off of him or something.

But if this isn't the case then yeah- the body language needs to be improved =)

[Scorned1]

Good work so far but I'm just not feeling it.

The drawing is competant but you have avoided the hard bits like fingers and thumbs.

Shes just playing. She is no real threat to him as he could easily avoid the blade and overpower her .A grown man would struggle and fight. Even a quick swipe accross the neck from the front "by suprise" is avoided automaticaly.

The scene is unconvincing. Like bad porn it's staged to look real but fails 'cause it lacks the grist and grit of real life.

That's not how you cut someones throat either. To be most effective the cut should be from behind and the victims head should be pushed forwards and down to avoid the trachia impeading the blades progress througn both ateries.

Just so y' know

rob

You must have had a lot of knife to your throat in the years you are alive to know exactly what to do and what it should looks like. You should overpaint Marty666 to let him see what you are talking about.

[Justin.]

Scorned, maybe you shouldn't go around to everyone one of his posts just to insult him. Especially not ones that are a year old.

[gregpro]

I can relate to the idea of working on one layer. Most of my work these days are painted on a single layer, but there is a risk involved with that practice. In this case you may be running into a few drawing errors where the figure needs adjustment. Although I prefer a one layer painting, having multiple layers saves time in the long run.

You might want to try and restate the drawing on a separate layer. Move it around to fit your pose and then correct the painting. Or you can try various poses until you feel that you captured a gesture that best describes what your trying to convey. Try drawing the hands separately and fit them together with the arm until it looks natural.

I assume your using Photoshop, so when you start to paint, use your adjusted linework as an overlay. Set the layer to multiply and this will drop out the background...you might already know that.

Make sure you find your light sources. Painting a convincing affect can only work if the artist knows light and how to manipulate it.

[gregpro]

Hi again-

I went back to look at your painting again. Sometimes I get started on these paintovers and loose track of the original intention. I wanted to comment on your palette. You have a nice choice of colors. My guess is your using a limited range of Black, White, and Red. This is an ideal choice for a mood like that. It's amazing how many color variations one can get from only three colors.

The lighting is low and the figures are rim lit by the window. You played down the detail in the shadow very nicely. The composition is good, but maybe can be improved by changing the format to something other than a square.

As for the girls pose, I notice you have a slight 3/4 view. I actually like that better then what I did. It says a heck of allot more then a complete side view. You see it's those little subtleties that really make a painting. Bravo!
G.

[Marty666]

Hi all!

wow PPL, you've really put some effort in this for me !!!

First of all, there's no update, because I've been busy at the moment, but I'll surely work on it tonight.

Gregpro: Thanx for the compliments in that last post, and even more for the operpaint you did.
I was planning not to use any small brushes on this piece, but after seeing the nice linework on the overpaint, especially the faces I'm considering taking it further.
I started my piece with some blobs... I try to avoid linework, since it gets annoying when the piece is more complete... When I just remove the layer the piece looks like shit, if I keep the layer I need to overpaint all the linework again to hide it....
About the colours... I've used saturated dark reds and oranges for the shadows, reddish and yellowish whites for the light areas and very unsaturated red for the (what reads as blue) secondary light on the guys face... It's kind of monochromatic but I was surprised myself how many colours I get out of this very limited palette

RobHughes: It's not like she is going to assasinate him... More like she's not really fond of him and tells him to piss off the hard way. The original plan was to have her grip his jaw firmly and put a knife to his throat. Unless he's a martial arts specialist I don't think he would have very many moves ready at that moment, but that's all opinion...

dCepT: Opening the mouth more is a great idea. I'll go check your sketchbook as soon as i've finished this reply.

Serena: Thanx. That's the plan for now...

Infinite & Scarypotato: Agreed. I like the expression on GregPro's overpaint, I'll try to go more in that direction

Buckweasel: She's leaning a bit backwards, because he has come too close or got too anoying. Her pulling a knife is supposed to be a 'the best defence is offence' move. I agree this is not clear from the painting. It probably helps if I put him closer.

Carnifex: I'm certainly going to put him closer, thanx... I like her face this way... Maybe I should detail her eyes a bit more to show she's looking at him.

All others: Thanx for the crits!

I'll update the piece soon...

[Marty666]

Hi everyone... After all your great crits I was surprised to see how fast I could improve this painting...

Put the guy closer
Gave her eyes
Redid the guys face
Gave her hands (which look terrible, I know... please help!)
Put his arm out of the picture (for now)
Reshaped her legs/butt

Doesn't seem completely right still, but I think it has improved a lot. thanks for that!

Marty

[smoke3006]

I think it would be more dramatic if his head was tilted to the other side, away from the knife. That would expose more throat and make him look more vulnerable.

[Hendric VII]

Hey Marty, I really like the second version, the expressions are much better and the body language is much more suggestive of the mood. The hand bugs me because I want to know if she is holding him by the throat or the jaw. If throat then it her fingers should have more curl to them to show her gripping. If she is holding him by the jaw, then you could spread out her fingers, particularly the index finger along his jaw. This would say alot about how she is manipulating his head and add to the mood.

Im trying to follow Gregpro around and collect all his paintovers. It's like putting together the class textbook one page at a time.

[Infinit]

that's much better already
keep spending time on it and don't let ppl get you down!

I like the feeling that she plays with him

[Alka]

well, for me, first, i disagree with Hendric Vll, that hand is perfect, it gives the feeling of tension. second, i shurely would flatten the belly (make it longer) and smooth the shadow between the belly and the "leg/butt/side/dunno how to call".
and then her eye:
-sharpen the shadow from the nose to the eye
-straighten the eyelid a bit(especially near the eyebrow)
-make the iris thinner.
Hands:
i advice u to make a photo of your hands and correct her hands based on urs.
and decide how she is holding the knife.
Then turn the guy's eyebrows(either push the one to the viewer's left closer to the nose, or erase a bit of the other one); and make some wrinkles on the forehead near to the eyebrows (cus he's turning up the eyebrows)
And do a little more shadow on the edge of his face.
Make some more shadow on her breast;
And, finally, change the light through the window. Have you ever noticed, that a window frame isn't just lighter in such cases, but it is also unclearer? so well, i advice you to unsharpen those edges of the frame and make the lines a bit irregular, sometimes darker and sometimes lighter.

I also advice you to draw the knife with much more glance and various shadows on an other layer.

I hope that really helped,
good luck!))

[Marty666]

hi there, fixed the faces and the knife a bit... Still thinking about the (also this) hands though.

Smoke... You're right, but I don't think I want to repaint his head. Good point for the next time I draw someone in a similar situation though!

Hendric VII: Her index finger runs along his jaw. The thumb pushes on his teeth (in back)... the rest of the fingers would be curled underneath but against his jaw. At least, that's whap happenes if I try to grip myself like this. I can change the hand over and over again, but it seems to be connected to the wrist in a strange way all the time.

Infinite: Thanx!

Alka: Thanx for the clear points to improve this one. I put the lower eyelid higher to have her look more angry. If I would straighten the top one she would be looking straight forward. Good point about the iris! You're right about the edges, but since I don't really want to think about these things before the rest is ok. But I won't be working this one out anyways. It started as a speedy and became more of a learn thing.

Well, thanx a lot again everyone! I'll try to update to show some crooked hands tonight.

Marty

[Marty666]

oops... forgot attachment. Here it is:

[Friso]

the texture you had at the edge of the curtain was very nice, maybe you want to bring that back

[dCepT]

Hey! Thanks for the crit back Nice improvement!! One thing I saw now was the his face looks small... think it's due to her hand (the one holding his face) is too big... Looks like she's caressing him with that hand... hehe.. intimate kill.

d-C

[Sopor+Aeternus]

agree with dCepT that his face seems too small. And there is just something unnatural bout the picture. The woman just seems like she is bigger and taller than the guy, yet he looks higher than her, or is she lifting him up with her strong arm? Maybe you should make his shoulders look bigger.. dunno.
Aight, working with only one layer? Sounds like.. lot of correcting with the smudge tool? Well good luck with it.
First thing I thought when I looked at the beginning of this pic: very nice lighting, somehow or the other, that feeling got lost in the last picture.Looking forward to see the final result

[Marty666]

Psyloco: Do you mean the chalky stuff that was in the corners?

dCepT: You're completely right... I hate that hand. I'll resize his face and try another hand I guess :/

Sopor + Aerernus: I see what you mean about the guy. I'll put his shoulder a lot closer and give it some bright edgelight. Just for interrest in the area and to size the guy up.
Smudgetool is evil. I only use a big hard brush and sometimes some textured brushes. When something is wrong I try to repaint it correctly instead of smudging it around. I think I learn a lot more this way.
About the lighting... I think I see what you mean, although not much changed about the lighting scheme. Maybe it's the second light on his face that went missing or the (now dark) red stuff on the left edge of the first painting?

Thanx again,
Marty