A question about 2 point perspective

**Crimson_diabloS** · May 8th, 2009, 04:16 AM

I have got a question about 2 point perspective drawing. I know the basics well enough to create a decent drawing, but I want to do something different.

Instead of having the vanishing points outside of the frame, I want the frame to be bigger than the 2 vanishing points. Yesterday I tried my hand at it and while it seems interesting, something is missing. So I wonder; is this a valid technique and if so, does anyone have any example pieces or even tutorials I can look at?

**the_jos** · May 8th, 2009, 07:04 AM

I'm not sure I understand you.

A vanishing point is used to place parallel lines in perspective and relate them to the horizon.
Every object in the picture you can have their own vanishing points independent to the others, as long as you keep them on the horizon.
That's the way to draw a turning staircase for example.

What happens when you bring both VPs to your frame is that objects close to the viewer get distorted when displaying them in two point perspective.
This can cause some interesting effects, but the way to handle this the right way is to put the object in three point perspective.

Just an example. Imagine that you are standing in front of building and are looking to the part above your eye level (this is what the horizon is all about).
So on the picture your horizon and VPs would be on the bottom of the painting.
When you would draw two-point that way the upper part of the building would be too big, leaning forward and outward. By putting it in three point you can correct this.
But you can also 'abuse' this to create slightly distorted pictures.

Is this what you are thinking about?

**ask maurice** · May 8th, 2009, 08:41 AM

Try this page on perspective. In this page there is a break down of "Paris, A Rainy Day" by Gustave Caillebotte displaying examples & a brief breakdown of perspective techniques. On this painting there is a building with architecture similar to the one at Times Square that displays what you are talking about.

Some good reference Books

Ask Maurice.Org

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**George Abraham** · May 31st, 2009, 12:59 PM

The final conclusion came for me from loomis "successful drawing"

You absolutely need to know perspective.

It's not an add on it's a pre-requisite.

When I started out I had a few misconceptions and struggle points with it.

You need to understand these in order:

1. Where there's an eye there's distance.
2. Everything relates itself to the distance from your eye.
3. Eyes are orientated. Every brain that looks at a picture interprets up, down, left and right because of orientation.
4. the line of eye orientation is called the eye line. It is FIXED to represent above, below, left and right.
5. The line of eye line is not the same plane as the feet plane should you be looking standing on a plane that is the ground plane.
6. The eye plane and the ground plane only vanishes on the same line because they are parallel to each other. This might lead to confusion. Remember the eye line stretches out to your eyes and the horizon line stretches out to your feet or the ground surface.
7. The eye plane is like having a plane slice your eyeballs right through the middle but the infinite plane you are looking at looks like a flat line.
9. If the ground plane and your orientation match up(the eye plane and the ground plane are parallel), they will vanish on the same line called the horizon line. Some material are misleading because they treat the eye line as synonymous to horizon line. It's not but it's often that these lines match up.
10. The eye plane(Orientation plane) and the horizon line can differ from each other. Like when you are sitting in an air plane and the plain is flying in a spiral. The eye line is fixed in your brain as your sense of orientation, the horizon is not.

Another set of stuff that could have made life easier.
1. Start drawing objects in 3 point perspective.
2. Understand first that distance makes stuff smaller and that anything in any direction having distance will get smaller.
3. Then look at two point and one point and notice that these point's do NOT refer to different techniques, you are "still in 3 point perspective or in full dimention" it's just that one or two dimensional planes you are looking at on the object are parallel to your eyes and thus don't get smaller. The moment you turn a qube in one point perspective it get's two point perspective and when you turn it again on the other axis it has three point perspective.

As a first don't draw with a horizon line until you are aware that you are working with distance and that every object has it's localized vanishing points. That the line you draw is the eye line, that represents above, below, right and left.

Later you can add the horizon and then draw these objects in a scene but remember the difference between the two.

This should avoid any misconception or ill formed idea when studying perspective.

When you "Get that" laaater you can look at what's missing with normal perspective. The fact that stuff will distance as they move parallel to you but further and further away. Real perspective has a spherical grid where normal three point stretches it into a flat square.