Work in Progress in dire need of help!

[Vhan Juju]

Ok, I have been fiddleing around with this "samurai" for a while now, and no matter what I try to pull with it it just feels wrong.

You can see were I got "close" and detaied some areas, then got flustraed with the pants, or hands (that I compleatley erased in this version I'm posting) and erased them, or thier detail.

So, this is one of my origional, or was going to be my origional work, but something is wrong, maybe its how I placed the feet, or something, but my biggest problem is that I cant figure out how to pose the arms....they seem to bee off balance no matter what!

(the first idea for the pose was to have the hands behind the back holding a sword, but that seemed to pull the arms into an akward, "way to long" look...)

Feel free to do a paintover if you so choose!

Thanks

[teazr]

try this site for reference
http://www.thehaca.com/photos/photos.htm

[Hasum]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, Vhan, but it seems that you're just trying to draw out the image in your head line-for-line as it were. Obviously it's difficult to tell in this sketch, but are you doing any kind of planning for the sketch? An action line, some kind of anatomical references, or a perspective point? For example, I can't tell if you intend for the left (our left) foot to be on a prop, or behind the samurai himself (in which case you need a way of adding depth. Foreshortening, I think?)

That's all my advice for right now, until I know more of what you're trying to do.

[Vhan Juju]

Unfotunitley, I didn't start with a action line. I started with a mannican erm...sketch?

Yea, basic model I posed, and then erased that, and added pants, etc.

His right leg (left on paper) is Supposed to be Behind him. So yes, I definitley need to add some depth!

[Hasum]

Unfotunitley, I didn't start with a action line. I started with a mannican erm...sketch?

Yea, basic model I posed, and then erased that, and added pants, etc.

His right leg (left on paper) is Supposed to be Behind him. So yes, I definitley need to add some depth!

Okay then. Good.
Well it's certainly workable, so don't give up! I'm thinking maybe an "open" pose might be best. With his leg behind him, it gives the idea that he's approaching the viewer head on. With arms out, throw in a pair of swords, and he could be mighty menacing! I'm in class at the moment, but I'll whip together a little something since I have my tablet with me. It won't be much, just a brief illustration of my suggestions.

You should've probably held off on erasing (completely, that is?) until you had a better idea where you were going with everything. I also think you might be focusing too much on lines as opposed to shapes. By that I mean, you already are putting detail into things like the armor and right sandal, before you have an commitment to where you're going with the rest of the composition. Surface detail like that can come later, for now you need to back up and get a clearer idea of where you want everything, the action of the piece, and a brief mockup of what shapes you want for everything--both the man underneath the armor and the armor, etc, itself. (ie. Is he buff of slender? Broad shouldered or a pansy? Does his armor poof out or fit with the contours of his body?...)
Just brainstorming. I'll update this post in a few minutes with some red goodness.

[Imnapl]

So basically what I can see that I have to point out is the right thigh needs to be more rounded (I realize this is a rough first) and the right foot looks almost like it's to small for the heigth. When you redraw, you need to fill in the upper torso a bit more to fit the lower. In essence what I'm saying is that the legs are to big for the body and vis-versa.

[Hasum]

So basically what I can see that I have to point out is the right thigh needs to be more rounded (I realize this is a rough first) and the right foot looks almost like it's to small for the heigth. When you redraw, you need to fill in the upper torso a bit more to fit the lower. In essence what I'm saying is that the legs are to big for the body and vis-versa.

Imnapl brings a good point. This is what I meant by shapes, fundamentally.
The legs may be too big for the body, but before you try to fix the legs--decide on what you're going for here. Then the general shape of things. Also, something I missed but you caught Vahn, is the lower torso being tilted. If you bring the "floating" leg down and back how you intended it, it may resolve the problem for the most part, but we can't focus too much on that until we work out the rest of the general form.

[Vhan Juju]

you need to fill in the upper torso a bit more to fit the lower. In essence what I'm saying is that the legs are to big for the body and vis-versa.

Yea, the torso was origionally bigger, and you can faintley see the eraser marks were I got rid of it because I didn't like it...what you see still remaining there is the "plate" of torso armor.

Well it's certainly workable, so don't give up! I'm thinking maybe an "open" pose might be best. With his leg behind him, it gives the idea that he's approaching the viewer head on. With arms out, throw in a pair of swords, and he could be mighty menacing!

Well thank you! Head on was my origional choice, but what do you mean
by "open pose"?.

By that I mean, you already are putting detail into things like the armor and right sandal, before you have an commitment to where you're going with the rest of the composition.

Yea, lol that is because I got a bit of eraser rage after I decited that it wasn't good enoughf to detail, half way through detailing it!

Thank you so much you two!

You should've probably held off on erasing (completely, that is?)

Well, not compleatley. if you look closeley you will see what I erased, the hands that used to be holding a sword behind the head, and were the left foot used to be positioned while haveing isshues with the balance....

[Hasum]

Yea, the torso was origionally bigger, and you can faintley see the eraser marks were I got rid of it because I didn't like it...what you see still remaining there is the "plate" of torso armor.




Well thank you! Head on was my origional choice, but what do you mean
by "open pose"?.

By "Open" I mean arms out, as opposed to held "in" near the body, limbs obscuring parts of the subject. Give me a few minutes--class just ended, relocating--and I'll try to show you what I have in mind.

Yea, lol that is because I got a bit of eraser rage after I decited that it wasn't good enoughf to detail, half way through detailing it!

Thank you so much you two!

You're welcome.
Yeah. That's a bad habit. I've got a few of those myself. You'll have to consciously work at not taking out your frustrations on your artwork--especially when it's still in the sketchish stage.

Well, not compleatley. if you look closeley you will see what I erased, the hands that used to be holding a sword behind the head, and were the left foot used to be positioned while haveing isshues with the balance....

I'm not terribly good with foreshortening myself, and my anatomy could definitely use work, but I understand where you're coming from. I actually can't much see your under sketch because of the monitor I'm using currently, so I'll just take your word for it.

[CommanderDoom]

In agreeance with Hasum, I never go into hard lines until I have a skeletal structure roughed out. I get the shapes, pose, perspective, and placement down before I procede with detail. And reference is by far important. Look at yourself in the mirror if you have to. I've done it many times. Great job, man!

[Hasum]

Let's see if I can figure out this upload thingy...

I'll admit flat out, I haven't taken an art class in my life beyond a fundamental in High School. That was a few years ago. This is far from a professional critique or anything, but I hope it helps a little. Also getting used to the slip-n-slide feel of a graphire tablet.

Oh, boy. My handwriting sucks.

Here, transcription, clockwise:

(1) "You have the right idea, but seem to second guess yourself."
(2) "But you get the idea ->"
(3)"You may want to turn out (->) the leg and bend hte knee, depending on what exactly you want."
(4) "This could be worked with [the leg],if he was stepping down, but the whole upper half would need revision. Right leg, wrong composition. "
(5) "Obviousl position is up to you. "Open" meaning underarms exposed, unless you turn the elbow back." What i mean by that is, rotate the ball joint in the shoulder so that the swords are literally pointed at the viewer. Think of the range of motion you can rotate your entire arm, held out, at.

[Vhan Juju]

Dang, I gotta post more of my stuff in the crits, and "work in progress" section of the forums, I'm allready learning a ton!

[Hasum]

Dang, I gotta post more of my stuff in the crits, and "work in progress" section of the forums, I'm allready learning a ton!

Absolutely. I should follow the same.
Do me a favor though! Test everything I tell you, and anyone else for that matter. Like I said--I am not a professional artist or art student (yet)! I might be totally wrong!
I'm glad to hear you're learning, though.

[Vhan Juju]

Do me a favor though! Test everything I tell you

Ok, this hour I got free, then english, then another free hour....I'll see what I can get done in that time, and Maybe, just Maybe I can get another one up here before the end of today.

(note, this feat requiers a battle of epic porportion with my schools lab scanner....this could get ulgy. If I don't post for another three days....you know what happend! (lol) )

[Imnapl]

I'm not a professional either but I can see some of the things that need to be fixed. I have taken some classes and I know a sculptor personally so she helps me understand the anatomy stuff better. Vhan...see how he was talking about the "open stance" That's basically what I was showing you.

[Vhan Juju]

I'm gonna take it easy today, and I'm goona give some updates tomorrow!

[Hasum]

Well, no wonder I couldn't find this, it got moved. Still waiting on those updates.