IDW #58: Propeller Driven Plane

[yoitisi]

Topic: Propeller Driven Plane

Background: Originally suggested by Epias, I decided to give the topic a twist after seeing some of Scott Robertsons' antique racing planes.

Not only do you have to design a propeller driven plane, this time you also have a specific time frame: Pre World War II. At that time, the first single winged racing monsters started to dominate and replace the earlier biplanes, but these biplanes still existed well into the war. So, in this weeks IDW I want you to design either a biplane or a plane with single wings, as long as it is driven by a propeller. Huge engines and small cockpits are optional

Note that this brief isn't limited to racing planes or fighters, you can also opt for a passenger liner (like the luxury flying boats of that erae) or a mail carrier, whatever you choose it has to fit the time frame. Exaggaration is optional, it doesn't have to be too realistic. A source of inspiration here might be the movie 'Sky Captain & the world of tomorrow' or the game 'Crimson Skies'.

Brief:
1. Design and draw a Propeller Driven Plane.
2. The timeframe in this topic is pre-WWII
3. That's it... now draw!

Deadline: Sunday January 27 2008 (I close it the same time as the last one - only one day later )

[nirudafat]

any reference links avaialble?

[ChristianWeeks]

so it doesnt have to be realistic or anything? When i read this the first thing that came to mind were the pod racers fom star wars with those enormous turbines and stuff I dont know much about the aerodynamics of a plane but i can still try my best to make it look cool haha

I decided not to do the CoW after fozzy changed the topic so I'll give this one a shot.

[yoitisi]

nirudafat: Try googling something yourself I suggest, I suspect it won't be hard to find anything good. I put up those two examples just to show it doesn't have to be too serious or historically correct. Finding inspiration and reference is part of the process of designing.

ChristianWeeks: It doesn't have to be overly realistic, however, keep it sort of believable. I realise Sky Captain might be a bit too much Steampunk, but try to design something that will fit in that time -technology wise as well as design. I based this topic on a couple of drawings in the book 'lift off' by Scott Robertson, where he exaggarated some of the elements of those old planes but kept it totally believable.

[ChristianWeeks]

yeah I wasn't planning on something ridiculous and out of proportion or anything, I think I may base mine off of the red baron, or atleast the color scheme.
But I just realized that TURBINES and PROPELLERS are not really the same things... would a plane with turbines be wrong in terms with criteria?

[nutkin]

one of my favourite sites for reference
http://www.danielsimon.net/

[Dragonspit]

Man I hope I have time for this.

nutkin, I hadnt seen that work before, I loved that site.

Its funny you mentioned the Crimson skies game. I was just last night tooling around a game place looking for xbox fill so my 7 year old doesnt burn through $50 games at one a week. and grabbed a copy of that for $3. Looks like fun.

I expect a ton of entries.

[yoitisi]

ChristanWeeks: Yeah, turbines -and turbo-props or helicopters for that matter- are not really fitting for that time and place. Guess that's a no I know of an example where someone accidentally invented a jetengine even before WWII (Discovery channel has its uses ), but as he didn't know what he actually had invented that doesn't count. During WWII the first jetengined planes started to enter the battlefield, but they were still buggy and sometimes even slower than the older piston powered planes. And they're not included in this topic

Nutkin: That's damn sexy that site

[ChristianWeeks]

alright cool thanks
ill do my best to work around that then
and yeah, discovery channel haha

[Maieth]

This one's gona be my debut
Got some ideas sketched up that i might put up in a bit. Think I'm going to go muscle on it. All about power and speed.
I think my design is probably the tale end of the time setting, but I've researched and everything I'm working from was around in the 30s, it was just waiting for the tweaks and advances that were brought by war.

I've gone for a single prop monoplane with a somewhat hypothetical 'V24' engine giving it a really massive nose. They certainly had V12s back then and I know a plane was built with a V24 in the late 30's. I can only ask of a leap of imagination where power to rate ration is concerned however.

Pics to follow

[yoitisi]

Maieth: Back in the days it was all about cilinder volume and cilinder count, so go ahead I'd say

A little additional piece of information, I mentioned that movie Sky Captain as a source of inspiration with that huge British flying aircraftcarrier in my mind. After a little research I found that the main character flies in a WWII plane and is therefore not a real good source to base your own design own

[Maieth]

K, so this is where I'm going on this one.
Started by researching 30's planes and the technology available. Originally I was gona go for a rotary engine just cus they looked cool, but soon settled on a long nosed monster driven by some big V engines.
Settled on two in-line V12s to give that massive nose and have built the plane up around it really.
Image 1=WIP showing engine configuration and underlying basic structure
Image 2=WIP showing 1st concpet of body I'm bulding around the plan





Design is already changing fast though. realsie original idea is looking a bit too close to hurricane spitfire era planes so i need to bulk it out a bit.
Image3=concept 2
More coming, still working...

[D-Holme]

Inspiration (and my own brain storming)
Not sure which way I'd like to take things but I've been sorting through stuff from my memory and bookmarks, posted some up perhaps as some inspiration for people.

Reference in real-life:
These are out of my reference bookmarks, there are some good ideas for non-standard aircraft here. The basis of the site is mid forties but jet designs aside a lot of the ideas have their roots in the interwar years:
http://www.luft46.com/arado/arado.html
http://www.luft46.com/bv/bv.html
http://www.luft46.com/junkers/junkers.html
http://www.luft46.com/mess/mess.html

Reference in art:
Porco Rosso (Studio Ghibli) – is set during the interwar period and features some less standard aircraft.

Timeline
WW1 – aircraft go from frames and canvas almost kite like designs to advanced biplanes and even all-metal construction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPAD_S.VII
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sopwith_Camel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Vimy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handley_Page_V/1500
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caproni_Ca.3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_Russky_Vityaz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_Dr.I
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caproni_Ca.60 - really good example for cramming on as many engines and wings as possible (whether it works or not)

Interwar – rapid increase in aircraft size and numbers. Some mono-planes coming in. Seaplanes and flying boats are dominant for large long distance aircraft – mostly due to nature (or lack of suitable airfields). Engine power is limited by (if memory serves) lack of turbo or super charging but large aircraft make do with many small engines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Seamew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_R3C-2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_S.6B
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_G.38

30’s (or just prewar) – most aircraft are monoplanes, generally all metal construction but plenty of wood and canvas versions still in existence. Maybe some of the pre-war designs are too close to being out of the field.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_ANT-20

[yoitisi]

D-Holme: Thanks for putting that up Except for that spitfire I think I agree with them as inspiration. The spitfire was basically brought into service and became famous during the war, and I therefore do not count it as pre-war.

I got another one, got to respect this one: Gee Bee

[nickzorn]

I haven't entered this one before, do we need orthographic views as well?

[Maieth]

the Gee Bee is awesome. Found that while i was researching and is fair to say it altered my design a little
Im sure Yoitisi will give you a definite answer on this nick, but I don't think orthographics are neccesary. Imagine it would give strength to any piec eof design though

[Benza]

That capricon 60 plane is nothing I´ve even imagined would be a serious attempt to get airborne. but sure is fuel to the imagination

[Maieth]

Well, I thought I'd finished the design work and could move onto a final render. But I've now decided this is too ordinary, think I need to do something radical to make it more interesting.

[Ryan Macaroni]

I think I may attempt this one... If I do, it'll be something rather outlandish and bizarre, and possibly completely ridiculous. I'll get started tomorrow.

[yoitisi]

Nickzorn: Orthographic views aren't necessary (I'll ask specifically for them if I require them in the topic), but are fun to have so feel free to add them

Maieth: Just a small thing, the wings of a normal airplane should be somewhere on its center of gravity. In your last image, that would be much more up front with those two huge engines there. Also, when it would stand on its landinggear it would probably topple over right now Might take that into account when redesigning, makes it more believable.

[Maieth]

yoitisi: Thanks for landing gear tip. hadn't considered that. Redesign definately taking in those points as I mod it up a bit.

[Legato]

here are some thumbs... the first digital one was designed specifically around looking as odd as possible, however the second round of brain storms were drawn up around an original idea for a plane to fill. i like the idea of them, but they look a little too ordinary, so i might blend the 'flying fish' with the 'pegasus express relay/stagecoach'

im really trying to avoid the whole mustang look and trying to stick to ww1 era stuff (or pre ww2) but all in all, ww2 had much better looking stuff



and the photos from my sketchbook (too lazy to scan)



(detail for sky hook mechanism)


(details for rear fastening system and cargo glider/sled)

[nickzorn]

here's my initial idea.



I know, the bullet trails are out of perspective, that's something I'll fix before sending it to final, just wanted a little feedback before I start really adjusting it.

[Legato]

here's my initial idea.

make sure you add in some clear visual styles conveying the right time period.

right now it has the visual styles of a ww2 plane, which is tempting, but pre ww2 planes had some pretty different design languages going on!

[Ryan Macaroni]

I'm new to this time and style. By "Pre WW2", are you talking anything before WW2, or have you got a specific area of time just before WW2? Any approximate dates would be extremely appreciated.

Thanks,
Ryan.

On another note, this may be a good link, depending on the Topic Starter's answer to my previous question. Bunch of pre-WWII planes.

http://winjack3.com/pre-wwII.html

[Legato]

I'm new to this time and style. By "Pre WW2", are you talking anything before WW2, or have you got a specific area of time just before WW2? Any approximate dates would be extremely appreciated.

Thanks,
Ryan.

On another note, this may be a good link, depending on the Topic Starter's answer to my previous question. Bunch of pre-WWII planes.

http://winjack3.com/pre-wwII.html

"2. The timeframe in this topic is pre-WWII"

anything else goes pretty much, although i doubt yoitisi wants to deal with "this takes place in an ancient advanced civilization that has progressed to propeller driven stealth planes" or any of that, but only he can say

[Ryan Macaroni]

"2. The timeframe in this topic is pre-WWII"

anything else goes pretty much, although i doubt yoitisi wants to deal with "this takes place in an ancient advanced civilization that has progressed to propeller driven stealth planes" or any of that, but only he can say

Let it be on your head that I design an aeroplane made entirely out of carved stone.

[yoitisi]

Let it be on your head that I design an aeroplane made entirely out of carved stone.

Haha if you can pull it off I won't deny you a place in the poll No seriously, what I had in mind is similar to the link you posted, pre WWII meaning the period between WWI and WWII (more or less ). D-Holme posted some great links earlier on in this thread as well. That's the visual language I was aiming for with this topic. If you feel like doing a Wright Brothers type airplane I won't stop you however. Stone carved ones or Legato's example are too far off topic, the design should sort of 'fit' in our own history here.

Nickzorn: I agree with Legato here, it looks too much WWII right now. It has something to do with it being a flying wing concept (Germans introduced that one), the engine pods being integrated in the wing and the way the cockpit looks I think. Check some more reference on pre WWII planes and compare that to your design.

[Ryan Macaroni]

Thanks alot. Wright Brother's style, possibly a bit of Da Vinci influence was what I had in mind. However, I'll try to make it a tad more modern than that.

[D-Holme]

Legato - liking your first most image - the pusher concept with a big radial engine right in the middle of the aircraft – looks pretty smart.

nickzorn - other than shape issues people have already brought up, you've chosen a very Luftwaffe-esque colour scheme which doesn't help separate the periods.

Yoitisi - yes I thought the Spitfire might be out of the period you were thinking.

There’s an aviation time line for people who were wondering about positioning of aircraft types:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...usage_category