How does art-making relate to open source tendencies? I want to know!

[mjzz]

EDIT: nm, see http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho....php?p=1309976

[kendi]

i got as far as... the gist:...
lol
it's very long

[mjzz]

i got as far as... the gist:...
lol
it's very long

Yeah, you're right it was far too bloated.

Removed the and shortened the description to something more readable. Better?

[Penabled]

Wow.....really it is too long for reading. Long and not very descriptive in your goals but very wordy.

The very fact that you compare open source software developement to art at all leads me to suspect that you have no understanding of either and likely are not an artist yourself.

Art is as much an expression of the artist as it is an idea expressed by the artist.

Honestly...you're just appearing to be someone who wants something for nothing. Regardless of how you may be attempting to veil the notion.

[mjzz]

Wow.....really it is too long for reading. Long and not very descriptive in your goals but very wordy.

EDIT: nm, see http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho....php?p=1309976

[kendi]

whoa...

[mjzz]

whoa... lol
cool man.

hey, it's cool...

like totally sodomy man.. hehe..

*takes a deep drag* hupp.... *blinks twice and eyes get red* hupp...

hupp...
*smiles and breathes out* huh, yea...

totally kewl. *covered in smoke* yea. penabled bit your head off huh? lol

[kendi]

lol
i like you mjzz

[mjzz]

lol
i like you mjzz

good luck. i like ur words emoticon. where did u find that? ahahahhaha

[Seedling]

What? Eh, what?

I'm too drunk for this.

*toddles around*

[mjzz]

Oh no, not with a knife, that's dangerous!

(Also, your drunken addendums are quite welcome! I will provide full political amnesty to them in fact!)

[Seedling]

Okay, I’m sobering up enough to express why art and programming are too different for this idea to make any sense. A program is a tool. It is a useful thing used to achieve an end. Art is an end. You can use a program to achieve art, but you don’t use art for anything. (Well, there are useful objects that are also art, but the art is purely secondary to the function, so yeah.)

What do you have in mind in terms of “open-source art”? Because for me, it boils down to this: I own the rights to my work. You can’t have the rights unless you offer me some sort of adequate compensation, because I need to make a living from this art stuff. Anything otherwise smacks of you wanting to use my work without paying me for it. (Please demonstrate that I am incorrect.) While under specific circumstances I might be induced to give away the fruits of my labor for free, I am not interested in undermining my livelihood by making a habit of it.


Speculation and the tossing around of ideas don’t belong in this forum, by the way. This is for specific commission requests. Get your idea figured out first, perhaps here, then come back to the “jobs” section.

If you do have a solid idea for a project already, then you need to work on your communication skills. This highbrow English-lit obfuscation shit doesn’t cut it. We are professional and student artists, not sociology grad students. We are not impressed by language that isn’t plain and to the point. Your goal isn't remotely clear.

For the love of all things small an fuzzy, don’t use the word “bourgeois” when you reply. It triggers my gag reflex.

[mjzz]

Okay, I’m sobering up enough to express why art and programming are too different for this idea to make any sense. A program is a tool. It is a useful thing used to achieve an end.

EDIT: nm, see http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho....php?p=1309976

[Kahl]

If we remove the bullshit with a hot butter knife...

...my general impressions are Someone got caught using someone else's art for a "Derivative work" without permission and was ripped a new asshole and is looking for someone to justify his/her theft with a lot of unnecessary language.

Don't do that. Sleazy lawyers do that.

There are some artists who are quite happy to create art for others to use to such ends....but trying to force some socio-political spin on it and making those of us who do not wish to do the same out to be stuffy-types hindering the future of art is...complete bullshit.

The only thing that makes programming "Open" is that is is available for others to improve upon and make advances for higher functioning. Trying to make art "Open" is to not only say that you or anyone has the right to claim they can "improve" someone else's art, but that its meant to serve any "function" beyond what the artist themself has declared and that, in my opinion is a fairly arrogant statement.

*passes the hot butter knife to the next one in line*

[Seedling]

*Takes the hot butter knife.*

I’m coming from the perspective of a game designer. In games, the most important thing is that the game be fun. The art can be made out of three colors of giant pixels, which is why computer games managed to succeed long before the current graphics technology was available. The art is a decorative wrapper. Beyond games, you can see the same layering of functionality and aesthetics. You have a fork, or a really spiffy fork. You have a beater of a car, or a shiny expensive car that’s pleasing on the eyes. Both of those forks function as forks, and both of those cars function as cars. The art is just a bonus.

But you are right – art does serve one function that is not an end unto itself: communication. Illustrative art is any art that communicates something. Examples of such communication include “picture of a guy with a sword”, “picture of a vase full of flowers”, “picture of a pretty new car that Ford wants you to buy”, “picture of a religious martyr dying in a terrible and uplifting manner”. But there are still layers of functionality and aesthetics involved. One can draw a crappy picture of a flower in a vase in five seconds with a crayon. Or one can spend days carefully rendering the perfect composition of flower and vase with oils. Both get the point across; the latter is merely wrapped up in more prettiness.

But this is all getting away from the point of your post.

Yesterday a thirteen-year-old posted a request in this forum for a cd cover for a compilation of music. His objective was clear, clean, and simple. Yours isn’t.
I think you need to decide whether it is your objective to set a concrete goal and to inclusively gather artists who will join you in reaching that goal, or whether your objective is to use overblown, intimidating language to exclude all but the most snobby literary elite from a club, at the heart of which is a goal that you are working hard to hide because there is actually no goal of any significance. Making alterations of smiley-faces? You are making not just mountains, but entire continents out of mole-hills.

By the way, you seem to think that you are the first person to come up with the idea of artists collaborating for fun. You aren’t; you are just wrapping it up in verbiage and pretending that it’s something new. Artists collaborate every day. It just typically goes a bit more like this:

“I need to get away from computers for a while. I’ve got this idea for a comic book about zombies. Hey Joe, you’ve done some inking before, right? Want to team up with me on a comic book after work? Oh, so you would like to add some ninjas to the mix? That sounds like fun. Ooh, I wonder if Sue has any free time. She’s good with color. . .”

Good luck recruiting.

[Ebony-chan]

Please just get to the point and tell us what you want.

[mjzz]

Thank you for the feedback everyone. I will try to address your responses... !

[mjzz]

Trying to make art "Open" is to not only say that you or anyone has the right to claim they can "improve" someone else's art,

EDIT: nm, see http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho....php?p=1309976

[mjzz]

Making alterations of smiley-faces? You are making not just mountains, but entire continents out of mole-hills.

EDIT: nm, see http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho....php?p=1309976

[mjzz]

Please just get to the point and tell us what you want.

EDIT: nm, see http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho....php?p=1309976

[kendi]

lol

man, u guys need a drink. lmao
ALL of you.

[kendi]

i promise, i am going to come back to this and read ALL of it. i may need to get a dictionary first - my current one is intended for elementary school kids and it doesn't contain all the words everyone is using.

but i know what sodomy is. that's when you inject someone in the rear end with a foreign object? lol.

[mjzz]

lol

man, u guys need a drink. lmao
ALL of you.

haha, I've pretty much responded drunk to every post in this thread (I usually can't will myself to talk shit about art at all unless I have a few drinks in me)!

[magnut]

* takes butter knife and tries scooping out his own eyeballs *

Wow, my eyes actually dried out trying to read all of this.

mjzz, why did it take you until the 20th post to finally be succinct? I'll never get that part of my life back, from when I suffered Hysterical Blindness trying to read your previous posts.

Manifestos are for crazed people looking to shoot up schools, so I think I might be scared of you now (LOL!)... OKAY, THAT WAS A JOKE. But you get my point*, eh?

*POINT: A distinguishing item or element; a detail.

Okay, I'm drunk with fatigue. Seeya...

[Seedling]

Mjzz, you crack me up! We’ve got to stop having conversations while drunk. I think we’re scaring the kiddies.

Ok, I will try to specific.

Big improvement! Those papers that you’ve been reading: those are the domain of a different art world than you’ll find here at CA. In-depth analysis and interpretation of paint splatters just isn’t entertaining for folks who prefer the tedious daily grind of learning a craft. On the spectrum of illustrator to bullshitting, taking-advantage-of-your-audience artist, it’s the second category who hide behind inflated vocabularies to inflate the importance of what they are selling.

I’m glad that you have such a good humor about the reactions you’ve gotten from us; that bodes well for whatever you aim to accomplish.

The minimalism involved in your examples might be perfect for what I'm trying to play around with. Syncretism is always nice -- I have a watercolor right now, but something done in oils would be great! Maybe you would humor me?

Thank you, I do appreciate the initiation, but I must decline. I’m on a diet of daily life-paintings in order to bootstrap my skills up. In fact I’ve got my box-o-paints lined up and ready to haul outdoors this morning, and I’d better get to that.

[Kahl]

i may need to get a dictionary first - my current one is intended for elementary school kids and it doesn't contain all the words everyone is using.

but i know what sodomy is. that's when you inject someone in the rear end with a foreign object? lol.

This concerns me greatly, dear. *passes over a doll* Show me where they touched you....

mjzz...

Exactly, which is what I'm trying to do when it comes down to the playful transmogrification of this crappy image!

Maybe from the very beginning you should have just said this, only replace "Transmogrification" with "interpretation" so it doesn't sound like the ravings of Marvin the Martian.

"I want to playfully interpret image X. Would anyone like to help?"

Basically that's all anyone's been saying.

I wrapped everything else in the ball of "complete bullshit" because you could have left all that out and said two simple sentences and within a day had more people interested in helping you. Direct them to your web link if they want to know WHY you want to do this. Bullshit is just a simple way of calling it pontification...sometimes fancy wording just makes people feel dumb - or like you are trying to sound smart. Just talk, man. Simple words. That's all.

[mjzz]

mjzz, why did it take you until the 20th post to finally be succinct?

EDIT: nm, see http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho....php?p=1309976

[mjzz]

I’m on a diet of daily life-paintings in order to bootstrap my skills up. In fact I’ve got my box-o-paints lined up and ready to haul outdoors this morning, and I’d better get to that.

EDIT: nm, see http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho....php?p=1309976

[mjzz]

Maybe from the very beginning you should have just said this, only replace "Transmogrification" with "interpretation" so it doesn't sound like the ravings of Marvin the Martian.

"I want to playfully interpret image X. Would anyone like to help?"

Oh come on, "transmogrification" is just a fun word (and apart from that, I think its definition almost perfectly describes what I'm trying to say). It's not like its even all that far off in space either. Some of you people must read Calvin and Hobbes!



The word really has better connotations than "interpret" (although it might be more expectant I guess).

I wrapped everything else in the ball of "complete bullshit" because you could have left all that out and said two simple sentences and within a day had more people interested in helping you. Direct them to your web link if they want to know WHY you want to do this.

EDIT: nm, see http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho....php?p=1309976

[Qitsune]

Moved to the proper section.