Need HELP!!! SAIC, SCAD, RISD

[mellis]

Hello.
I am currently a sophomore at a liberal arts university and intend on transferring to an art school this fall. I have been accepted by SAIC (the School of the Art Institute of Chicago), SCAD (Savannah College of Art and Design), and RISD (Rhode Island School of Design).
These are the merit scholarships I have received:
SAIC: $6,000/yr
SCAD: $18,000/yr
RISD: don't know yet
(Note- financing school is a big problem for me)
I am not so interested in consumerist design or animation; I am looking for a good painting photography department(I plan on setting up a studio after I graduate). However, I also need a good art history department.

So...I need help. I don't know where I am going. I need comments from students who have gone to these schools or know enough about them. I am having a 'reputation' dilemma. Does it really matter a school's reputation if it's what you make of it? or does the school (meaning faculty, etc.) that much better at a more 'distinguised' school?

I am leaning towards SCAD, because I can afford it and Savannah is gorgeous. But in Chicago or RI I will have more connections and opportunity.

Please HELP!

[Kendraad]

Whoah, you get into RISD? I would go there if I were in your shoes. RISD has one of the best illustration programs in the country if you're leaning that way and not an easy school to get into. RISD is also part of Brown university, so I'm sure they have some stellar art history classes. Everyone gets into SCAD lol, no but seriously, SCAD is a great college too and they produce some really awsome work. I have a friend who's a freshman illustrator at SCAD who loves the school. Your best bet is with one of those two I'd say.

I have a friend who also goes to RISD. Here is some of her artwork if you're interested http://crownjewel.deviantart.com/

Don't pick a college because you like it's location more then another college. Pick it because you really feel it will offer you the best education. Chances are, you're not going to get outside to explore very much.


Good luck to ya!

[thesinfulsaint]

If I were you, I'd steer clear of SAIC. They're reknowned, yes, but read the fine print about their degree. They don't really have majors there--just "focuses". Basically, at least, the impression that I get, is that they take your money, hand you a general BFA, and send you out on your own. Plus, I think they must have a more "artsy" type program than anything else. Don't really trust my opinion as the absolute--these thoughts are just coming from my brief encounter with them at a portfolio review day (which told me NOT to apply there ). When I asked one of the guys at the review day what was thought of as a good portfolio, he couldn't really give a definite answer. "Well, you know... you could make a documentary about your hometown... just paint... whatever." He also asked me if I had a social life because of how meticulous my drawings were. Pretty much, they turned me off.

But yes, like Kendraad said, go for SCAD or RISD. If you can afford it, definitley lean toward RISD. Choose SCAD over SAIC, though.

...And don't listen to that rumor that SCAD isn't fully accredited... I used to sing that tune, too, but I did my research. A friend of mine is going to Emery for Pre-med. Emery is accredited by the same association that accredits SCAD, and NO ONE would accept someone into Med school who didn't go to an accredited university.

[mellis]

I've heard soooo many bad things about SCAD that I'm afraid to keep considering it. I'm currently at a pretty distinguished liberal arts university right now and don't want to transfer to a school whose degree is not taken seriously anywhere (even though SCAD is accredited).
Does anyone know how much of the SCAD rumors are over-the-top exaggerated?

Thanks for the replies!

[mrgrumble]

haha kendraad i know fabiola

well anyways, i'm a current junior over at RISD, and would say considering what you're after, a strong painting/photo department, RISD is right up your alley. Had you actually been wanting a good concept/illustration department, then no.

But they really excel at the fine arts. And although it is a bit pricey, the experience is well worth it. I know that Painting students get a rather large studio space, and classes are quite diverse. Photo isnt really my thing but I can talk to some friends if you'd be interested

But one question, as a transfer, would they make you go through the freshmen bootcamp year? cuz well, that was lifechanging. i now cant go to sleep before two o clock without thinking i should be working

lemme know if you want any solid answers or perspective on anything, i kinda just dropped in here for a sec!
cheers!
timmy

[Seedling]

RISD is $30,000 a year. Any of the above can be a good education. Just make sure that you are learning what you need. Be very agressive about getting into the classes that you need, and be agressive about steering your assignments towards teaching th\\you the things that you need to know. Don't wait for someone to hand it to you, even if you go to RISD.

(I went to RISD. It was good, but I'm sure a good education can be had elsewhere, too, and I still had to fight to learn what I needed at RISD.)

[mellis]

But one question, as a transfer, would they make you go through the freshmen bootcamp year?

Yes, there is an intense transfer-in program starting in June or July. I'd really like to go to RISD- I'm just so worried about my financial situation.
How is RISD on scholarships? Do you guys know any rough statistics, or do you all have scholarships?
If I go, I'll be transferring into the painting program, but that would be great if you could find out about the photo classes there too!

Let me know about what you love best about RISD and what I could get there that SCAD and SAIC could not give me.
Also, how are those schools viewed by RISD? Are those things we've all heard about SCAD really true?
Would it be better for me to be in debt with RISD than save alot of money with SCAD?

Thanks so much!

[Mirana]

I've heard soooo many bad things about SCAD that I'm afraid to keep considering it. I'm currently at a pretty distinguished liberal arts university right now and don't want to transfer to a school whose degree is not taken seriously anywhere (even though SCAD is accredited).
Does anyone know how much of the SCAD rumors are over-the-top exaggerated?

You need to be a bit more specific. WHAT rumors?

Incidentally, I was not an Art History major at SCAD, but was required to take about 8 History classes. It was a joy for me because I adore History and once I was allowed to take the elective histories, there was quite a range. I wasn't in the Painting dept for too long, but my fiancee loved it so much that he worked as an assistant for one of the profs, despite the fact that he was not a Painting major.

[Seedling]

I really recommend not getting giantly in debt by going into RISD’s painting department. You can learn to glue plastic cows onto canvas for a lot cheaper elsewhere. If you want to learn how to paint pictures of things, the painting department is not where you want to be. But take what I have to say with a grain of salt, because I was an illustration major.

Sorry, I don’t know anything about scholarships. About photo classes: taking classes in other departments can be very difficult at RISD. It is easy to get into Photo I, but if you want to straddle departments, you’ll have to fight to make it happen.

RISD students don’t have much of a view of anything outside of RISD, because they are too busy. If you want to find out about SCAD, you’ll have to ask a SCAD graduate. At any rate, the few SCAD graduates I know are well-adjusted professional artists with good jobs and good skills.

[mellis]

You need to be a bit more specific. WHAT rumors?

Have you read the student posts on studentsreview.com? Or SCAD stuff on other forums?

Including but not limited to:

-Very bad reputation in th 90s, still trying to get over it- censoring ex professors and use work-study students to post positive reviews

-Can't transfer back to my school (Trinity University) if I don't like SCAD because they won't recognize SCAD credits

-Crime-ridden campus (dorms next to housing projects and ghettos): reports of muggings at gunpoint; parking stickers are not being charged anymore to park on campus

-Reports of rape; racial tension and discrimination (due to obvious reasons on my part)

-Give out scholarships like candy

-Called the "Wal-Mart" of art schools; school viewed as a joke- employers are hesitant to hire someone from an art school that isn't accredited by NASAD (despite portfolio)

[Kendraad]

-Give out scholarships like candy

That one is actually true.

[thesinfulsaint]

-Can't transfer back to my school (Trinity University) if I don't like SCAD because they won't recognize SCAD credits

If you're feeling unsure enough to consider transferring, you should probably do some serious thinking before spending a year there.

-Crime-ridden campus (dorms next to housing projects and ghettos): reports of muggings at gunpoint;

You'll find that 90% of art schools are located in the "ghetto". The fact of the matter is that there is crime on ANY campus--you just have to be smart and always be aware of your surroundings. Don't go out after dark without a buddy, and call security to escort you if you're really afraid. Most campuses offer services like that.

-Called the "Wal-Mart" of art schools; school viewed as a joke- employers are hesitant to hire someone from an art school that isn't accredited by NASAD (despite portfolio)

I guess I can't speak totally for this since I'm not in the industry, but I have always heard that it is almost solely your portfolio that will get you hired. There are plenty of people who come out of institutions that are not accredited at all who find jobs in the industry. The Wal*Mart part might be partially true, though. I've heard the joke made that all you need to get into SCAD is a "paycheck and a pulse."

[Mirana]

Have you read the student posts on studentsreview.com? Or SCAD stuff on other forums?

Including but not limited to:

-Very bad reputation in th 90s, still trying to get over it- censoring ex professors and use work-study students to post positive reviews

-Can't transfer back to my school (Trinity University) if I don't like SCAD because they won't recognize SCAD credits

-Crime-ridden campus (dorms next to housing projects and ghettos): reports of muggings at gunpoint; parking stickers are not being charged anymore to park on campus

-Reports of rape; racial tension and discrimination (due to obvious reasons on my part)

-Give out scholarships like candy

-Called the "Wal-Mart" of art schools; school viewed as a joke- employers are hesitant to hire someone from an art school that isn't accredited by NASAD (despite portfolio)

HA! Hahahahahahahahahahaha.

I didn't read student reviews. What's the point? I don't know those kids so why would I trust their opinion? You need to check the school out for yourself. Look for FACTS.

- I don't know anything about the 90s, and that really isn't what's at stake for you today. I know my profs love their jobs (other than the general "I don't get paid as much as I'd like, or the occational admin crap). I know work-study kids do nothing but TA or monitor.

- Why can't you transfer back? Is this something your school said, and if so, what is it based on? Similarity of classes? If not a quote from your school, then you need to ask directy and not surmise on your own.

- I've lived in the Savannah area for nigh on 9 yrs now. I have never been the victim of ANY crime. Dorms are NOT in the ghetto--they are in the city. There is a difference. A few of the halls are in the "ghetto," (and by "ghetto" you should understand that Savannah is not like other cities. You can have a low-income street, and the next be million dollar homes, then low-income again) but I've never heard of a crime on their property (these buildings all have security guards, fencing, and call boxes). Now, if you are stupid enough to live in the ghetto, leave valubles in plain sight in your car, or be walking around a CITY at night by yourself, be prepared to contend with it. This the same problem for anyone living in a CITY. Duh.

- I've never heard of a rape on campus while I've been here. I have many friends of all races, religion and backgrounds and none of us have ever dealt with discrimination of any kind. To be sure, it's the deep south...but Savannah proper is a blue county.

- I know plenty of kids who DIDN'T get scholarships. My best friend, kids I worked with, my fiancee had to apply three times before he got one. And even if they did, so what? Every private school is a BUSINESS. It's good business sense to give you a discount so you'll buy. Not everyone can do the work. Not everyone can graduate. Things tend to thin out by you sophmore and junior yrs.

- Uhh, I've never had anyone wander into this forum and have a rumor like that before. How amusing. If I were to think of a "Wal-Mart" school, it'd be a HELL of a lot cheaper and a much bigger company...the AI schools, perhaps?

Furthermore, "hesitant to hire" or "b/c its not accredited by NASAD" is a flat out LIE from someone who doesn't know a thing about it. I've worked many freelance jobs for large companies while IN SCHOOL. I've had more than one employer gush about how they loved my school--shit, I just got an unsolicited one from a head-hunter out in Cali a week ago who said she was impressed I'd gone to SCAD. Personally, I could give two shits about the name on my diploma--I went because they had the major I wanted. Conversely, I've had employers who looked right at my portfolio, emailed about that, and didn't even bother to see that I hadn't graduated yet, or I didn't have an MFA (needed for a teaching offer in a DC art college...), let alone what school. I've never had anyone say anything negative about the school--and why should they? It's not my resume that sells me like my portfolio does.

Also, I will say it again (and again) because nobody bothers to do any research. SCAD is accredited by the Southern Association of Schools and Colleges, which is recognized by the US Dept of Education. The National Association IS NO DIFFERENT than the Southern. IT IS JUST A NAME. I could call myself the POOP ASSOCIATION of COLLEGES and as long as the US DoE approved my quality standards, I'd be set. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. NONE. You want to look it up for yourself, be my guest. Google the "US Dept of Education," look up "Accrediation" and search to your heart's content. There are Mid-West, New England, and West Associations and each accredits different top and renowned schools. I swear the accreditation bullshit was started by some schmuck trying to make their school sound big and mighty.


Any other questions? You can also read the "MCAD vs SCAD" thread for questions posed by other prospective students.

[mellis]

WTF? Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just regurgitating this stuff. FYI: I have done my research (including your posts on SCAD since I know you went there ).
I needed more input on this stuff from actual students from the Savannah campus- so I asked. I know the facts; it's what's not on the website that matters (for what I was looking for). After getting the facts, I researched forum after forum...and found really disturbing accounts from current and ex-students. I was really upset when I read this stuff because I was almost 100% sure that SCAD was where I wanted to go. Now I don't know. But I'm feeling optimistic again because of accounts like yours.
-in response to the 90s part: the past bad rep is still affecting who is applying there.
So, until I receive the financial aid award letters from these 3 schools...I'm kind of in limbo.

I do feel optimistic about SCAD-Atlanta, though -and then transferring to the Savannah campus later.
Oh, yeah- my fiancee is going there.

[mellis]

Oh, yeah: what do you think of the "professor turn-over rate" from your experience? I've heard that it's pretty bad, but is it really?

[Mirana]

Eh? I'm just annoyed at the "rumors" and having to repeat myself so often...haha.

I've never heard anybody reference the "90s thing" before--and I lived in SAV long before I even knew there was an art school here--so I don't know what to tell you.

The only thing I know about SCAD-ATL, is that it's the old ACA campus and that my dept up there is hurting for professors (none of the ones from SAV will make the move b/c they prefer living and working in SAV). A friend of mine who was from Birmingham went to school in ATL, but hated the city. I've never lived in it, but I've never had a problem...beyond ridiculously bad traffic, ha ha.

Hmm, I've heard that as well, but I've never seen it so I assumed it was either in the low foundation/core areas (which I didn't take because I transferred), or other departments (for example, I was around a fashion prof last Dec who said it was impossible to keep a fashion dept chair in place...but that was for many reasons. Profs getting back in the business, going to the ATL campus, etc). My own department (SeqaArt) hadn't/hasn't lost any of the core people while/since I went there. The only profs it "lost" were guest profs that weren't supposed to be long term--Linda Medley ("Castle Waiting" fame) and Glenn Villppu ("old master" Disney animator fame). In the couple of yrs before I went, my fiancee was in the dept and they only lost one prof because he took a job as lead storyboard on Family Guy. They've actually added 3 or so new profs to handle all the new kids in the dept (since the manga upsurge, the female ratio jumped from 2% to 50% and I've noticed a lot of animation kids in there because our dept has the concept-art subset).

As far as the depts you're looking at...both of the profs I knew from the painting dept had been there FOREVER. In history, one had been there a long time and the other has just moved to town last yr. Can't tell you about the entire depts.

[mellis]

Thanks for the info!
My fiancee is a seq.art major and will be transferring this fall, too- I'll let him know it's best to get those core (seq.art) classes at the Savannah campus.

[Kendraad]

Not to add to anymore more animosity towards SCAD but this is something about the school my TA told our class when I was in precollege. (I posted it before, but here's a re-paste)

I did precollege at Ringling 3 years ago, and my teacher assistant in my painting class told us about when he was a senior in high school applying to art colleges he took his portfolio to SCAD to get a review, and after they looked through it they told him they would like to hire him as a teacher.
He was only a student, and that pretty much finalized his decision to not go to SCAD. Why? He told us if they couldn't tell the difference between student work and a professionals work he didn't want to go to a school like that. And obviously they couldn't tell the difference because he was applying to be a freshman illustrator and they wanted to hire him as an instructor. Which is pretty scarey if you think about it. And brings to question their standard of quality if they thought a students work was of quality to want to hire as an instructor.
He showed us his high school work and it was nothing to be amazed at or somehow get confused with a working professionals work.

That's the main reason why I never considered going to SCAD. I'm sure it was one of those one time, weird, situations, and SCAD does produce some amazing stuff and it is a good college overall from what I've seen and heard from friends, don't get me wrong. But just the fact that an upper rated college like that would somehow confuse a students work and want to hire him to teacher was pretty scarey to me.
Something like that would never happen RISD, Parsons, Ringling, CalArts, Art Center, ect. It just wouldn't happen.

But definetly look at the student work from the colleges and compare them all and see which ones from which school you like best. THat will give you a really good idea of what you'll be learning from that college.

And like I said before, SCAD does produce some really great artwork no doubt, and I'm sure that was just a weird one time situation that hasn't happened again.

[mellis]

I agree (about the one time, weird situation).

Even though I don't want to bring it up again-
I'm betting that your ex TA went through SCAD during the 90s when they were on rocks.

[Kendraad]

He was applying to colleges back in 2000. Close enough to the 90's I suppose ^_^

[LilaKCannon]

I came across this forum by accident in an internet search and felt compelled to sign up for an account just to reply to your thread...I am currently a senior at SCAD-Atlanta and cannot stress enough to NOT CONSIDER SCAD! I was an Atlanta College of Art student and transferred to SCAD when the two schools merged this past summer. I transferred not because I wanted to but because transfering to another college my senior year would have meant that I would have to take additional classes, therefore staying in college longer.

The school has some wonderful teachers (i.e. visiting artists and professors that are new to SCAD such as professors from ACA) and I have definately learned a lot. However, and this is a HUGE however, my college experience at SCAD has been terrible due to the bad professors and lower-level "administration" (not the president and vice-president who are both awesome) who are basically in charge of everything. They simply do not care about the students, all they care about is their reputation. For instance: since the merge, students have repeatedly asked for wireless service in the sculpture building but were repeatedly told that it was difficult and there were issues, blah blah blah. This quarter, visiting artist-Patrick Dougherty requested wireless internet for his public art course the first day of class. By the second class, the building had magically overcome the difficulties and issues previously preventing the wireless installation.

This is a perfect example of how the school works. The school's maturity level is on par with that of junior high girls. The professors and administration gossip more than the students. Again, I want to point out that there are definately great professors and faculty members. I have met with both president Wallace and the vice president who are both wonderful people and care about students. HOWEVER, the manner in which the school actually functions doesn't reach their ears-- there is obvious stress placed on everyone, both students AND faculty, to make the school come across as running perfectly whenever the president or vice president come around.

I hope I have made sense, and just as importantly, made my point. Yes, you will get a good education if you attend SCAD and yes, you will have opportunities you may not have at other schools, but all the jumps you have to go through and "BS" you have to deal with makes it simply not worth it.

I only have experience on the Atlanta campus, but students in Savannah have the exact same complaints. Again, this is obviously based on my own experience and I definately encourage you to talk to other SCAD students about their experiences.

To hopefully drive my point home, consider this: despite the amount of money this institution is worth, the space in which they have chosen to hold graduation is the school's cafeteria known as "the Hub." Due to the Hub's size, graduating seniors are restricted to four, yes, 4 tickets each. Unless another graduating senior gives you one of his 4 tickets, you're out of luck obtaining extras.

(Ahh,--I didn't intend to write such a lengthy post) Anyone who has questions or opinions, etc. can email me.

[LilaKCannon]

I probably should also mention that I'm a sculpture major, so the majority of my time and "dealings" have been with SCAD's sculpture department.

[uberninja]

SCAD-ATL didn't really jump at me but i know Sav. is great. SCAD looks like a great place to go to and i can't wait. my friend is studying there and she loves it. she was also number 3 in her graduating class and one of the best artists i've ever seen. i spent all year trying to draw at her level and now that i'm close i know she's probably far more ahead than me because of SCAD. she loves it there and is working like crazy.

[Mirana]

I have met with both president Wallace and the vice president who are both wonderful people and care about students.

[...]I only have experience on the Atlanta campus, but students in Savannah have the exact same complaints.

[...] To hopefully drive my point home, consider this: despite the amount of money this institution is worth, the space in which they have chosen to hold graduation is the school's cafeteria known as "the Hub." Due to the Hub's size, graduating seniors are restricted to four, yes, 4 tickets each. Unless another graduating senior gives you one of his 4 tickets, you're out of luck obtaining extras.

I'm a previous "student in Sav" and I don't have the exact same complaints. For one, President Wallace is a JOKE. You think the lower-level admins are a pain? SHE is #1! She plays nice where students can see, but the woman is a complete control freak who only cares about making more money (I know multiple people who have worked for her and the stories are endless entertainment. The turn-over rate in admin offices is horrendous).

However, seeing as I deal with the admins very little, and the incredibly talented and awesome teaching staff more? I find my level of instruction totally worth it (which is the point of going to school). I DO understand your situation in ATL with poor profs/admins. In my dept, profs flatly REFUSED to go to ATL (higher cost of living, horrible commute, big city atmosphere, etc) so SCAD had to hire all-new teaching and admin staff. I can't say that the situation is very good up there IMO.

[uberninja]

the administration at most schools are a pain in the ass anyway. damn, it's the same in high school. but what really matters is what happens in the classroom and what you get out of it.

[mellis]

As to only having 4 tickets for graduation-

That's exactly the number of tickets the university I'm at right now (which is one of the most prestigious schools in the south) gives out. Smaller, private schools have to do what is necessary...
In fact, many schools mandate a low amount of tickets for graduates because of available facilities.

[Mirana]

Ah yes, I agree with mellis. SCAD-SAV kids only get 4 tickets each as well--and that's with TWO graduations. Two yrs ago it was 6.

[Junck]

I've heard soooo many bad things about SCAD that I'm afraid to keep considering it. I'm currently at a pretty distinguished liberal arts university right now and don't want to transfer to a school whose degree is not taken seriously anywhere (even though SCAD is accredited).
Does anyone know how much of the SCAD rumors are over-the-top exaggerated?

Thanks for the replies!

Just want to get some clarification on this. Examples? Explain?

[Mirana]

Junck - This thread is over a yr old, so I'm doubtful you'll get a response on that.

rff2206 - We kinda like our members to do a little more than necro a thread and drop a promo link on their first post, but I'll play along. Your singular blog post is completely vague. You'll get more people to understand your situation (or believe you) if you give specifics.

[Meloncov]

RISD is also part of Brown university, so I'm sure they have some stellar art history classes.

Technically it isn't, though they do have an arrangement so that you can take classes at Brown. Which is unfortunate, as Brown's financial aid is a beutiful thing.