proportions and anatomy crits

[MacXII]

Hello!


My name is Lukas Grochowski, and this looks like a wonderful forum with many great artist as I can see and I hope I can contribute in someway in the future
I live in Sweden, here Im studing computer graphics, but I also want to become really really good at drawing, and my goal is to be able to draw the human figure in any and pose I want and in any angle.
So I started learning the human anatomy and with help of Riven Phoenixs video tutorials the process has been a lot quicker and easier and Ive just got off completing watching the entire series and my own studies of books and such.

And here are some drawing that I made and I would like some constructive crits or comments on the anatomy and proportions, and please dont go easy on me just because its my first post, tough love works best on me so please a full tackle!!

thanks
[edit] sorry for the bad quality I dont have a scanner.

[Konstruktion]

The seem to be very unbalanced, especially the first one. Check the spineline with the center of gravity, you know? Don't care too much about anatomy at this stage, study a lot of proportions. I recomend Burne Hogarths Figure Drawing In Space, it have helped me a lot with proportiones, foreshortening, shading etc. Understanding what I'm drawing.

EDIT: Andrew Loomis books are good too, but it looks like thats what you're using now?..

[wild thing]

Definitely wanna work on the feet. As far as the anatomy goes it is unbalanced. You have the upper half of the body really defined, but once you get to the legs they're very simplistic.

Also, in the last one, doublecheck his right pec. It seems awkward.

[n0ireclipse]

I see a few odd bulges that maybe shouldn't be there, mostly in the first pic, on his arm. And yeah, as the other two said, a bit unbalanced. Anyhow, it's a good start. Just keep truckin~

[MacXII]

thanks for you comments guys, much apperciated.

Sarcophagus:
In the first one I was trying to make a slight bend to the left instead of a straight pose. Im not quite sure what you mean with unblanced? that the weights are off and he would fall? can you elaborate a little if it isnt to much trouble. And Ive checked out the books they seem very good, which one of these should I start out if in your opionion?
http://www.internetbokhandeln.se/bok...sbn=0823015777
http://www.internetbokhandeln.se/bok...sbn=0823015521
http://www.internetbokhandeln.se/bok...sbn=0823015815
http://www.internetbokhandeln.se/bok...sbn=0823015874
The andrew Loomis books are veeery expensive! one costs 200 dollaras.
but here is the link for them at amazon, if I were to pick a andrew loomis book which one would it be?
http://amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102...0&Go.y=0&Go=Go

ChocoNumNum:
Yeah the feet are pretty basic and a bit off I can see. And I guess I could have made more defined legs heh Working out how the mucles behave and react in different poses proves to be a LOT harder than I thought, hope thoses books will come in handy there.

n0ireclipse:
m, youre right, the drawing isnt that big,and I think Ive made some extra lines because of insecurity of how things actually look, think for finalpieces im going to work on bigger papers once the thumbnail is down, but Ill do some more practice first.
Ill buy the books you recommend, in the meantime while I wait for them Ill post more here, Ive changed my drawing process into a bit more accurate one, at least I think it is, but Ill post them soon enough
thanks again guys!

[Liik]

I would recommend not working on gesture and muscle groups at the same time like this. As it was said, focus on proportion and balance.

The center of gravity is going to be directly between the feet if the figure is balanced on both feet. If the weight is shifted then the head is over the standing leg.

In my opinion, Hogarth's books are not helpful to a beginner. It's overly stylized and the exaggeration is unnatural. Of course, reading the theory is good, but I think there are more helpful books to buy first.

I find that drawing dancers and athletes is a good way to practice gesture.
http://www.amazon.com/Drawing-People...6201050&sr=8-1
I got this book and it was a great read. There's a lot about relationships and balance. When I recently took figure drawing, this turned out to be he recommended reading as well, so I already had it.

The Loomis books are good too. Art training gets expensive though, so if you have time, go to the bookstore with your sketchbook and a notebook and as you read, make yourself some notes. Copy diagrams into your sketchbook carefully, paying close attention to the proportions. (I'm recommending things that we did for my figure drawing class.) Most of all, don't just buy the book and then read it. Make sure it's something you feel will help you or it may get frustrating. I know that happened to me.

[NightVision]

the loomis books can be downloaded for free, but you'll have to search for it (use the search button, the link is bound to pop up on the forum)

[Dile_]

Get those hogarth books! or bridgman. in the bridgman books theres a lot about
rythm , its good if you want to learn about how to make a character look balanced! I just started doing hogarth studies.. .so i can't tell.. but what i've
seen , theres a lot about muscles, or how they look and react... but uhm, i can't really tell you about it !
Although.. lots of great artist used hogarth.. Marko Djurdjevic and Justin sweet for example..

About your stuff.. I agree with the others.. focus on proportions! do LOTS of those! It will come to you with tons of practice! you can't really get crits on anatomy.. you can get stuff pointed out for you, and then think of it next time.. but other then that, you have to work your ass of to get it down! but make sure to be careful when you observe!

Keep it up fellow swede ^^

~Dile

[RogerAdams]

Hi Lukas,

Welcome! I like that you posted a few examples of your studies and that they are complete figures. Good job!

I have some advice I'd like to share but feel free to dismiss it as I'm just learning myself. I don't like the Structure of Man videos. I feel the instructor takes something as difficult as drawing the human figure and makes it even that much harder. Avoid them at all costs.

If you want a video series that will actually teach you how to construct the figure from the mind, get Glenn Vilppu's anatomy series. It will cost you about ten times more than the Structure of Man videos but they are about 1000 times more informative. If you can't afford them right now. You can get your hands on Loomis's books here. Get them while you can. They can disappear like magic. And two Bridgman books, Constructive Anatomy and Human Machine are available for free. Constructive Anatomy is a great book. I would put Loomis and Bridgman above Hogarth. I didn't get much out of his books.

Another source to look for is to scour the net for any of Kevin Chen's life drawings. I owe this man a lot. Download them, copy and study them. A few things I got out of Kevin's drawings is his emphasis on simple spherical and box shapes that are closed off. He draws these forms in perspective. Here's an example of what I mean.



Note in the top left corner is the head and neck. The neck is a simple cylinder that is closed off at the top. That gives the neck form and makes it solid. When there's a couple stray lines for the neck or arm there's no mass. You can study his drawings for a long time. This page shows the shoulders as cubes, the upper arms as cylinders, the upper torso as an egg shape, the lower torso as a cube. Even though the upper chest is an egg shape he draws the center line and a line in perspective to give it form.

Hang in there I'm almost done rambling. About technique. These look like a mechanical pencil, is that right? Nothing wrong with that but your line is a little sketchy. Try switching to a normal 2B pencil with some of the wood cut off at the top to expose about an half an inch of graphite at the top or use your mechanical pencil. Hold the pencil like a tooth brush, between your thumb and your index finger. Then use your whole arm and the side of the pencil to lay in your figure. You will be drawing perfect ellipses and straighter more confident lines when you use your whole arm. Use a light, light touch. This is something you just have to practice. Just let gravity put the marks on the paper. You can put down a million light lines then you come in with a dark confident line. The light lines will just disappear.

I'm probably going to be embarassed at how much I've written but you've got drive to get better and I can respect that. Keep at it!

Roger

[vest]

First off, I love your attitude. I just graduated from the game art program at college, and all too often, I see a lot of "artists" saying "I don't need to know how to draw people, I'm going to be an environment artist!" Or "forget life drawing, I'm specializing in visual effects, and gestural composition doesn't have jack to do with moving lensflare all over a screen!" It's good that you have both a drive, a motivation, and a set goal. That, by default, puts you well above most everybody else.

As others have said, the balance isn't very strong. The poses are very floaty.

I think your second drawing is your strongest, because it has consistency in its motion. Yet it's not quite perfect, because his right foot can have even more connection with the ground, maybe get the ball of his foot planted firmly upon the floor. The second image also needs a second arm somewhere in there. Just a personal thing of mine. I don't think a pose is good unless both arms are, at some point, visible.

Your weakest is definitely the third image. It's a gestural mess. The biggest issue is with the pelvis. Imagine if you were making that pose. Just imagine it; you're standing up and making that pose. It would look rigid because of the pelvis ange. For the leg to be coming forward like that, you would have to rotate your hips accordingly. So what you would do, to acquire that natural flow of motion, is rotate the pelvis dramatically to your right. The other issue is that the arms and legs have no foreshortening to them. They are all perpindicular to the viewer, hence an apparent "paper doll" effect that hurts the depth of the character. Last little crit is that I just don't like his left hand at all. It's flat, perpindicular to viewer, and the fingers seem stapled together so it has no natural flow to it.

The first image works best for showing feet firmly planted on the ground. I'm also glad you included the preliminary drawings beforehand. You need a more definite, consistent arc of motion in it. The arc seems to shift a couple times, when what works best is just a single arc.

It's a good start, though. Glad you're going out and above the basic "winging it" approach to figure drawing, and take it as seriously as you do. Best of luck in the future.

[Rabid]

You need to start with the conceptual figure made of boxes and cylinders...once those proportions are right you can move onto the gesture steps, but right now your centerline needs more absolute definition and that should be your major focus! Can't wait to see your improvement!

[MacXII]

Thank you for you great comments guys!!

Liik:
Yes I think I understand now, it gets kinda to much actually so I will focus more on shapes and proportions I think.
I see I didnt really know that, about the wight shifting, good thing to know! thanks.
And thanks for the book link, worth checking out, wasnt that expensive either. And of course I wont just read the theory heh, Ill make as much drawing as I can from them, I have on question thou. Before I started my studies I used to copy stuff, I dont know how to proparly say that but draw from reference I guess you could say, but I feel I didnt get so much out of that, drawing real human faces, sure its good practice I guess, but my point is, if I draw from loomis book or any other book, Ill be drawing his stuff and not my own, meaning that ill draw a pose that is aldreay correct and all problems solved etc, but then when I want to make my own pose Im pretty sure Ill be scratching my head on how to do so correctly, unless he gives a very good explination and pictures of all the basics shapes in all angles?

NightVision:
Jupp RogerAdams did that for me haha

Dile:
Hm ok, Ill put bridgeman on the list aswell then, amongst the rest. Ok if hogarth is a lot about muscles and how they react then I guess I shouldnt start out with his books? And yeapp Ill do a lot of more propotions studies once I get started with the loomis studies, which will be tomorrow.

RogerAdams:
Thank you mait.
Haha I cant disagree more about the structure of man, but then again I havent seen vilppu and I think Riven makes it easy I wonder how ridiculousy easy it would be with vilppu
A big thanks for the books!! And the other links, and I think Ill go with loomis at first unless anyone of you thinks different of course? And that pencil technique you mention, I do draw like that when I make the flow line, then I usually switch back. Bad? I tried to draw the whole figure in that flowline way but it got even more messier haha, but I guess that is also a practise. Ill try it out more.

Vest:
Im very glad to hear that, thanks!
In my second drawing I was trying to make him fly haha, m I can see now how you mean about 2 arms visible, Ill keep that in mind, gives it more balance. I agree everything about the third image, I got a tip in one of Rivens videos, and this was after I made the drawing that you can flip the image, view in the mirror, put it upside down to see things you would otherwise miss, and seeing it days after its got a lot problems. Im not sure understand about the arc seems to shift a bit? You mean the paper I draw on? I try to align them as best as I can in ps and they are taken with a camera aswell.

Rabid Peanut:
Yeapp I understand that now, but the anatomy and all of the things I learned from the structure of man is kinda stuck in my mind, but I will begin with the loomis books, I checked them fast and they seem great actually! And hopefully the knowledge Ive already acquiried will come in handy later.

(Scroll down)Look at the first picture


Ok, so here are my understandings of the human structure as I was thought in the structure of man videos, I didnt do much shading here, more because I was afraid I would mess up and that I would get wooped by that heh but also becuase Im not 100 % sure of the volumes in the body, and Im not very good at lightning, now I know you said forget about anatomy but I just wanted to show you my, current knowledge you could call it, and what I wanted to say is that I do understand the ratios you have in the body. Maybe not all the ones but for the chest area and hip area, and of course this would be a bit different in dynamic poses and they here just here mear to maybe for you to give me a final push? Other than that I was thinking about getting started with Andrew Loomis - Figure Drawing For All It's Worth, (thanks again Roger), unless you have another opionion?

And then the second one.

So here I made a another sketch, with a different approch and process, a flow line at first from the head to the right fot, the I made som basic shapes, more of bit of measuring, then I added a very simple skeleton structure which I didnt do before, what do you think?