help me out on this ortho....what exactly is a good ortho

**marco nelor** · July 28th, 2006, 01:29 PM

hey guys.this is somethin thats been plagueing me. what exactly IS a good ortho? i gave it a shot yesterday, in hopes that some people could drop in and show me what i was doing wrong, or what the industry was looking for. does this work as an ortho? what are its strong points? what are its weak points?

any help greatly appreciated.

**inspector Lee** · July 28th, 2006, 02:30 PM

It's really good to have a profile (side) view as well (gives a lot of important information). Front, side, top and back are the typical ortho views. Also I'm not really crazy about the way you've cut off the feet. In an ortho you should show the entire character.

**jcaffoe** · July 28th, 2006, 03:00 PM

an ortho should be the entire character from at least a front and profile view. This gives the modeler something to set up for image planes if need be and allows them to get the basic structure of the character down. From there a back view is helpful if there's extra detail you want to get across, but it's not as necessary as a profile.

Basically the more information you can give the modeler the better, especially if you don't know the guy who's going to be modeling the character.

**marco nelor** · July 28th, 2006, 03:37 PM

gotcha, i thought front and back, didnt even realize it was the side that was important

**Ilaekae** · July 28th, 2006, 04:20 PM

"didnt even realize it was the side that was important"

Marco, I wouldn't want you revarnishing my bedroom furniture...heeheehee

**White Rose** · July 28th, 2006, 04:49 PM

umm..what is an ortho?.. i never heard of that before..except
when its used with "orthopaedic,orthodontist" and etc

**Reverend** · July 28th, 2006, 05:18 PM

Ortho= as in orthographic view. basically a detailed character turnaround showing all views, but mos timportantly a front, side and rear view of the object or person.... Like said above it is used to get the greatest detail for modeling and if someone else needs to draw it etc...

**glynn james** · July 28th, 2006, 05:38 PM

Proper views consist of up to 4 or 5 views depending on how complex the object is.

Official arrangement goes like this:

Centre image:-front view

Left of centre:-right side(with front facing towards the centre image)

Right of centre:-left side(with front facing towards the centre image)

Top of centre:-Top side(with front facing towards the centre image)

Bottom of centre:-Bottom side(with front facing towards the centre image)

The back view will be next to the left or right projection.

This is known as 3rd angle projection and is the worldwide standard, unless you work in the US where they use 1st angle which is the reverse of what I have stated above.

Hope that helps. PM me if not

**glynn james** · July 28th, 2006, 05:42 PM

Visual info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthographic_projection

good to know if you want to be a hardware based concept designer.

**marco nelor** · July 28th, 2006, 08:50 PM

ok thanx. so i know i left out side view, which i will be adding soon. other than that, how well does this piece work in terms of an ortho? asthetically?

**tokaru** · August 21st, 2006, 11:33 AM

the ortos are supose just to give proportion, and scale, and also can adress the need to know information about the design itself.

becuase your guy is not simetrical sometimes you need the right and left ortografic views . but sometime there are modelers that can actually model with just 3/4 view or perspective view.

the gray scale is ok but i suggest you to use a siluete in black or gray in this case for the proportions betwen the human scale and the monster.

because you are blocking the left arm. of that guy.

**Dougbot** · August 21st, 2006, 12:09 PM

I think it's a good ortho. How far you take an ortho is sort of subjective. Around here we barely ever use them, I turst the modelers enough to do cool stuff, and they tend to fill in the blanks really well. Of course I've worked other places where you would also show photo ref for skin, metal and would polish the art to the point they couldn't fuck it up. I think your ortho shows everything a modeler most places would need.

**davekilljoy** · August 21st, 2006, 12:23 PM

i find that i can model pretty well with just a side view...i dont realy need the other views because from the side or front, i cant infer what the rest will be. In fact id kinda like to take a stab at modeling this one, if its ok with you?

**Adarias** · August 21st, 2006, 12:40 PM

i disagree with dougbot; although it is well presented and a model could be produced from it, there would be a _lot_ of decisions that would have to be made by the 3d artist that he should not have to make if you were being paid to design a complete concept. How far does the chest portion stick out compared to the rest? is he barrel-chested or box-chested? are these various pieces sticking out round? or square? or octagonal? how far forward does the round thing on the right hip come? does it even come forward at all?

point is, these need both side views and ideally a top and possibly bottom as well or else you have only made half a design. you know what things are, but you cant guarentee that anybody else does.

also there are alignment issues with your front and back. lf something is truely viewed orthagonally from directly in font and behind, it's silhouettes should be horizontal mirrors of each other. lf l were working from this sketch, l wouldnt know if l should make the appendages scrawny and withered like in the from view, or bulky like in the back.

l think that the trouble you are having is in how you are approaching this, demonstrated by your question "how well does this piece work in terms of an ortho? asthetically?" an ortho has nothing to do with aesthetics except when it comes to presentation. orthos have one purpose: show size, shape, and proportion. they need nothing else, except detail for whoever has to make the texture(s) for it, and since you have no colors here, it cant really be used for that.

in the end, its a nice conceptual drawing, but not functional as an ortho.

**SubPablo** · August 21st, 2006, 12:51 PM

As is, I'd say this does the job fairly well. there's plenty of information for a modeller to work from. On this character, the front and back view are where you're going to get the most sillouette recognition from (which is usually the case anyway). A side view would help, but in this case I personally don't think it's necessary.
-Like Dougbot said, it depends on what studio you're at, and also the skill level of the modeler. Some people need everything spelled out for them, but a more experienced 3d artist can work from less information. Personally, I don't mind working from just a 3/4 or front view, but I like to have as much of the actual design worked out as possible(color key, at least basic materials hinted at, etc.) because I want the piece of art to show the Art Director what he's going to get so there's less of a chance that it'll get shot down and reworked. -though at the same time, it can be nice to have some leeway to add your own embellishments to the concept. It all depends on what your studio wants, and the needs of the modeling team.

*Edit* -I agree with some of what Adarias said as well. A lot of this comes from personal preference, and shouldn't necessarilly be attributed to skill level. You've gotten a lot of good advice here, and hopefully it doesn't just serve to confuse you. It all comes down to what your AD asks for, but for my $0.02, what you've got now is certainly workable but deserves to be fleshed out more.

**TheGnoll** · August 21st, 2006, 02:35 PM

looks great to me, and you've already gor the info you needed.So show us the side view(s) maybe some details view of some areas (the head/skull area and some other prts could be a bit hard to decipher for a modeller), and show us the feet.Apart from hat, looks like an excellent work to me

ciao

**TheDirtSyndicate** · August 21st, 2006, 02:49 PM

i love this, great concept, and i think it would make an awesome model, but i have to agree, a side view would be very helpful.
yes, some modelers are confident enough to just go for it and fill in the blanks, but others aren't.
besides... if you have a very specific idea of how it should look, then make sure you get that accross in the ortho.
so in the end...it depends on how concrete your idea is as to how many views you do i think....
meh...im no expert. but i would atleast throw in a side view, and you already said you would, so i'll shut up now.

**Adarias** · August 21st, 2006, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by SubPablo

It all comes down to what your AD asks for, but for my $0.02, what you've got now is certainly workable but deserves to be fleshed out more.

Very well said, and something i should have been a little clearer about. This design you've shown is a good one, a really nice conceptual design. My concerns stemmed form the fact that when somebody says ortho, i hear a word that is very different from a design. youve created a great design here, and one that could be worked from. but when i think ortho i think something that is perfect and 100% complete leaving almost nothing to the imagination, that, should the programmer so desire, could be placed directly in his viewport for model comparisson.

I think that if an art dirctor asked for a design for the team to work from and was handed this, he would say "that's fantastic, exactly what i was looking for. youve captured the character well and the level of detail is outstanding. job well done.' or something similar, provided he liked the concept.
I also think though that if an art director asked for an "ortho" for the team to work from and was handed this, he would say "this is a nice design, but we cant use it as an ortho. you've only got two views and the silhouettes dont match up. how can we use this as a blueprint if its only half done and doesnt agree with itself? bring me back something a little more complete." Hopefully he will say that, though theres also the very real possibility that if it is a freelance position and one of the first things you've done he might say "Im sorry, but we've decided to go with the other designer for this project, his work is much more complete and more suited to our needs. you can fill out an invoice for the work you've done." Nobody wants that to happen, especially when it can be avoided just by doing a few more views and making sure things line up. thats the reason for my critique, sorry if it came across as harsh.

**surfacemonkey** · August 21st, 2006, 03:07 PM

It's Crit week, so I'll do my best here. My opinion only comes from a product design standpoint (if you're going to make a $$valuable 3D CAD data model for toys, etc.)

Your style (and design) is really nice, but Adarias is totally right, and not too harsh at all.

What you should be worried about, is not that your ortho is good enough to make a model.. you should be worried that the modeler will screw up your idea, because they aren't sure of what's going on.

I have seen models made from less-informative sketches than yours, but the artist knew the modeler for a long time... so they could read each other's minds on surface details.

If you are not exact enough with your details, then the 3D modeler will do whatever they want with your design, and you won't be happy with what comes out.

I've quickly done the process steps, so you can see them, and understand how to help your modeler out.

I imported your sketch into Adobe Illustrator CS2, and used the "Live Trace" function. [orthocrit 1] This is an awesome function that takes a single click.
>Objects >Live Trace > Make

I then set all the lines to .25, and got rid of unneccessary linework. [orthocrit 2] >Objects >Live Trace > Expand
Now your lines are all Vector Graphic linework, meaning you can pull and push the lines to make them match. You can finish this process in 20 minutes,
and your modeler will be MUCH happier.

then i imported the illustrator vector lines into the 3D modeler program, to start mocking up the model [orthocrit 3].
Your sketch is only 1 Axis. (Y Axis). A side sketch would become my X Axis, and if you gave me a top view, that would become my Z Axis.

You can also clearly see how the human gets in the way, and i'd need to remove him in my process.. references for scale shouldn't really obstruct the view of the product.

Sorry for the longish post. Hope that helps.

**Vyle** · August 21st, 2006, 05:02 PM

surfacemonkey>> Excellent crit, very valuable infos, great stuff.

Orthos depend on the company you work for, modelers you work with, the time you have for pre production and the AD's taste. I'd say the best ortho possible is a sculpture, like many do in the movie industry. More expensive, but much more accurate, especially for main characters. My 2 cents.
In a perfect world and if I had the money and was directing a project (lots of ifs), I'd get all the characters sculpted by smelly bug first.

marco nelor>>
Your ortho is good, could definitely do with a profile. Ellipses on the cylinders are a bit off, be careful, a modeler might model them the way you drew them: distorted. Cool shoulder pad design.

**egerie** · August 21st, 2006, 06:47 PM

Sometime details shots with your orthos REALLY help modelers. Even a cut view of receding parts can also be of immense value. As everyone said before, info is paramount but shouldn't be too restrictive that the modeler feels trapped. It's all in the manner of communicating your intensions.

**goran** · August 22nd, 2006, 03:09 PM

When you do the side view draw the arm separately ,this way it wont
cover the ribcage in the side view.
I think hat you need left and right side view without the arms and then
the arms separately.
Nice design.

**marco nelor** · August 22nd, 2006, 07:38 PM

thanx for the crits guys, ill draw a side view, and correct the circles later. when im done working out, lol. damn, i kinda LIKE crit week. ima add some more stuff to crit, lol.