And we keep spinning

[deadred]

hey stark, looking forward to see updates from you when you get back online proper, less procrastination, more practice!

[Stark]

OKay, I've been drawing an trying to build up good updates and this is what I have so far. Nothing much really, some studies, doodles, and more studies. I've got a long way to go before I can catch mins or even texahol... SO help out by critting and leaving suggestions for me to better myself.

[squidmonk3j]

good to see studies, but i still think you are a)making too many assumptions about structures (esp faces) and b) rushing your drawing.

but, heading in the right direction!

[jadefoodog]

i agree i need to do more studies myself

[Cwn Annwn]

Agreed with squidface!~

Take your time and look at the object/person clearly. The mug you have up there isn't too bad, perspective is a bit wonky. Maybe I can hang out with you in sketcher and take you through a few things?

Also, I'd like to see more stuff with a full range of values and maybe even experimenting with colour.

[irina]

Hi, Stark!

Always good to have you stop by my sketchbook -- thanks!

The last image (sink) is REALLY nice! Great job on the weightlessness of the figure!

[F11]

You shapes look really undefined, and your work tends to lean one direction.


see how you lean to one side, the eyes, nose, and mouth should follow the red line.


The back of the head stiicks up to far, it should be rounded like the read circle i overlayed.

I sugest you check outthis website, It has a few books on figure and life drawing that would help you.

[AndreasM]

good to see studies, but i still think you are a)making too many assumptions about structures (esp faces) and b) rushing your drawing.

but, heading in the right direction!

Agreed. Structure is pretty darn important and every good/decent/great/masterful artist has, over years of hard work, built up a high sensitivity to it. So how do you pursue it?






I'm no expert...

But I do have some ideas
In nature, there seems to be an universal rule that is invaluable to all artists: Form Follows Function. Every study is done with the intention of gaining a greater sensitivity to every aspect within that rule. The more you study anatomy, the more you discover what all those lumps and bumps are. Your knowledge on their shapes and functions will give you a greater sensitivity to the structure of the human body.

In every drawing I see in here, there seems to be an attempt to copy the outline of figures and faces, but features appear flat and disjointed because they are explained through 'symbols', rather than what they are: flesh under constant influence of the underlying muscles, tendons and bones. When an experienced artist/professional draw, say, a face from imagination, their simple and effective marks follow the rules and parameters of the underlying structures of the head. They know, through extensive studies of every single landmark on the skull, where and how to simplify through big shapes. They can identify the shapes of the underlying structure and, through light and shadow, how to give the illusion of form. Andrew Loomis shows you how to construct the head through simple geometric shapes, but don't just blindly copy his examples; realize that the simple parameters he has set, are based on the most influential landmarks on the skull. In short, get yourself an anatomy book, gain some reference and spend time on studying and discovering all the mayor landmarks (that you may have previously overlooked), and how you can make the most effective interpretations of their form and function. Actually, It would be easier for those who look at your work to give good crits and guidelines if you posted a wip along with the reference (in this thread).

A more general suggestion that will help your observation and line work, is to draw with straight lines. This means, in every subtle curve, look for the exact placement of the most prominent angle break and go on from there. A general rule that is stressed where I study, is to always start with the big, general shapes and slowly move down to detail. Whenever I find myself screwing up a drawing, its because I delved into all those elaborate details and forgot all about the general proportions. The best thing you can do when that happens, is to take a kneaded eraser, roll it up to a sausage and roll it over the drawing to lighten it up. From there, you will be in a better position to correct the big shapes. I also use this method to unify drawings when the values are getting too messy. I read somewhere that Sargent would scrape his paint of the canvas, if the big shapes in his portraits were inaccurate, and start over from scratch.

Okay, i'm starting to ramble now, so I guess this is the time to end this post. I hope you will find this at least a little bit helpful and inspiring. Browse through the net and discover where and how the many great artists apply these principles and you will find inspiration in tenfolds...it works for me, at least. :p

[JellevdVegt]

hey man, i see your efforts and studies and i recognize the thing you go through. i know are prepared to put a lot of effort in this and i think thats the most important thing of all. all i can say is:

study PERSPECTIVE!!!!

because all you do when drawing is putting a 3d object on a 2d canvas. everyone should know the basic principles of perpective and how to put shapes in space... because thats ALL you do.

i recommend trying to draw CUBES. everything, like a human head, has the same width lenght and depth of this cube. this is universal and is imo the foundation to drawing things in alignment (not 'wonky'). just try drawing a cube and see that its not that easy as you think. from there on you can built on that.

really, cubes is the foundation in drawing ANY form in dimension.

i hope you get something of this good luck man, i know you can do it

[Lee W]

doing well and working hard just keep checking the alignments, distance and relationship between the forms/features. Also consider the negative space to help create the form. Occasionally step back and look at the sketch to see if there are any errors that needs fixing.

[Kvick]

I see you've got some good things going in here and it's really great that I see you're...........

noooo, fuckit update your book fool >.> number of posts on your account doesn't equal art skills

[Stark]

Is this what you want? Does this not entertain you? lol...here's another update, I think/hope I can lvl up enough before the workshop

Squidmonk3j: Thanks a ton, I've been working on it, let me know if I made any progress.
Jadefoodog: Then what are you waiting for? Get crackin'!
[B]Cwn Annwn[\B]: Thanks for that brief session, we need to do that more. I draw "better" for some reason when I'm with other people..
irina: Thanks a ton. I'm always willing to help others out, so I added your SB to my sig to get you more crits and comments. Have fun
F11: Thanks for the draw over. It helped but I think I made the same mistakes... I'll remedy that with more practice
n0fish: That is a lot to read, but it has a ton of helpful information in it. Appreciate it and I hope I took steps to use your information.
Teh Gosu: Yeah...perspective is a bitch and I never know where to start when I want to learn that...any helpful links?
OldNoobie: Thanks, will do
Kvick: lol, look who's talking! I haven't seen you or anything from you in about 2-3 months...you need to man up!

Here's the sketches...

[Idiot Apathy]

Hrm hrm, ok I'm pooped but I will try and make some sense and say something semi-intelligent which is usually a struggle anyhow. *cough*

For form, try to think of things in primitive shapes; first envision an arm as a cylinder or two. Chop that up as you go along. If you know form it helps immensely with proportion and of course shading.

As far as shading goes, try doing some two value studies; light side dark side and then alter the edge hardness where the two merge to describe form. It's all you really need to do so.

Anyhows, looks like you are cracking out - keep it up monkeynut.

[Texahol]

monkeynut...wow I can't believe the audacity.

looks like you're starting to get a grasp on value. do what the idiot said do some value studies. They've helped me a lot....even after you THINK you get it...do more, 'cause there is still more to learn.

Your pencil renderings are looking much nicer, but you're rendering turds :<
that one guy with the hat's eye is squishing off his face. I'm not sure how you're drawing exactly, but my advice would be to get a HB pencil [or something a bit harder] and do some very light lines to hammer out proportions. Erm, like guidelines. Then go in with the heavier lines that you seem to want to do all the time as you flesh out the form.

Do more gestures, and try to think about unsymmetrical overlapping curve = organic form. You're at a point now for studies studies studies. At least, if you want to get better, drawing from imagination is *nice* but when you don't have a good understanding of something, it's best to use reference, and try to copy it closely. How I learn best is doing one long study...and then it gets ingrained in my head, because I spent so long OBSERVING it, like those master studies. Very helpful...I've used information directly gained through them with stuff.

Also for some reason drawing from life is just the best...really helps boost up your observation skills...it's probably half magic- who knows. So draw more from life! just draw...stuff. you don't even really have to set up a still life. Just drawing things and observing them is good practice in itself, but um sometimes it's good to have something consistent to slave over.

I'm not sure what I've just said to be honest, I wasn't paying attention. I hope you were, there was probably something worth reading in there.

ZOOM! go watch claymore, that show it awesome.

[Matsign]

Great enthusiasm! You'll need it all through your artistic journey

Immediately caught the tight edges on these cylinders. Make yourself a small still live and put in a couple cylinder objects. Those edges have to curve fully. You'll find its in your stroke thats causing you trouble. Pick a spot on one of your sb pages and practice loops at different degrees.

I agree with Idiot Apathy and Texahol to make a value grade. If you have pencils from 6B to 2H this can be done. Armando just left some great advice in my sketchbook about this value grade. It helps you learn to pick the right values faster and accurately.

Experiment with some hatching/ cross-hatchin'

[Duq]

Not much I can add to the previous posters.

Put some time in studying basic forms, and get those in your head. Try to combine spheres and cubes in one shape when you learned enough about basic forms. Its boring stuff, but boring stuff seems to be the fastest way forward at times . And to make it more fun, do them with a pen, instead of a pencil. Less error tolerance with a pen, so you will need to stay sharp.

Thats it, good to see you updating again Stark, try to update at a more regular base then a month though.

[MrBobMarley]

Sup man. Anything I'd say was covered in the last 10 posts. And yea, why don't you try updating more than once a month, slacker

[FourTonMantis]

nice progress.

is that gas mask from Nasum's Grind Finale?

[Stark]

Some bullshit from me...will get to replies when I have something better to show...Just trying to keep the updates regular...

[Hyver]

great to see you updating a lot! good spirit shown

get some pictures of (real) skulls and study them.. they'll come in handy when drawing heads from imagination

[s.ketch]

The only crit I have is draw more. Loosen up your hand and be more sketchy. Let your hand be unsteady a little and itll create imperfections in the lines that are more organic and natural looking. Do more line work and hold off with shading till you perfect your contours and line art.

Heres a way of thinking that doesnt really have to do much with learning anatomy but when you get to the point where you want to create more finished sketches and art, also something I wished I had learned early one. Dont think of it as drawing a character, or figure. Think of it as an abstraction. Its more intuitive than just thinking of things in more basic shapes. The importance is not on proportion or anatomy but on the design elements and how they communicate that character. Pretty soon you can start drawing freely and not have to block everything in first. Your ideas will flow better and it will be easier to be creative.

[DIMAGYAN]

you are doing better lines, thats good. nothing to add to the other posts above.
keep drawing, observe and update! take care and have fun

[FactorZero]

simplify and nail your forms before going into the details. You sketches will read better this way.

[Stark]

Here's another update. Just some studies on hands and faces and a few gestures. Nothing really big to show as of yet...working on my mentorhship assignments. Some things look wonky b/c of camera quality and all that jazz, so hope it turns out right for you all....

IdiotApathy: Monkeynut? wow...Thanks for the words and will try that out today/tonight sometime.
Texahol: Gah, no need to be all huffy Hobbit! Studies and life drawing. You and John are nazi's to that stuff man. I guess I'll keep crackin away on these studies though, I've GOT to catch your hobbit ass. Take care.
Matsign: Thanks for stopping by. I thought those cylinders (coffee cup and toilet paper ) looked pretty well when I drew them...guess not. I'll work on; something and upload it here.
Duq: Ha, right a pen...I am not squid! Basic shapes seems to be popping up a lot in these comments...might be something to it huh? Thanks.
MrBobMarley: Me updating? Look who's talking! Thanks for stopping by anyway man, your work is a constant reminder of what I need to do to get better...appreciate it.
BigZam: Uh....I dunno. I googled face masks and this popped up so I used it...will probably be doing more studies of these things b/c I think they look sweet.
Hyver: Alright, I have someone I don't particularly care for, I'll kill him, clean the skull, and use that as a model...That cool? Thanks a ton.
BuckWeisel: I watched the Youtube you linked in IRC of Marko and I guess it gave me some information. I'll give what you said a try as I'm still looking for some kind of 'style' to call my own...but everyone has already taken it.. I'll figure something out and see if it's to your liking :p
DIMAGYAN: You are a true inspiration for me. I can't get enough of your line work and I try to imitate it in my art. No where near your level yet, so I will take your advice and draw more. Thanks a ton for stopping by, means a lot.
FactorZero: Easier said then done my friend. I'm getting a hold of the concept though, so hopefully I'll get closer as time moves along.

Sketches:

[MattGamer]

Keep working on the artz, mate! With her you got off a bit on making her neck a little too long. I do this ALL the time. Just because her head is tilted up doesn't make it longer.

Keep up the studies and work harder than ever!

[Kman.]

Hey stark. You've got something going here, keep workin at it. Draw draw draw! Every day. You know the drill.

The value on this one http://www.conceptart.org/forums/att...1&d=1190325177 and the one of the gas mask is pretty decent, maybe try following the form with your pencil strokes. Its a different technique then what you're trying but I've found that it works much better for me.

Keep it up man!

[EFrost]

Hey bud, the artz is coming along.

Loving the hand gestures and the first figure (except for the neck) is looking good and finally getting to see those creatures you'v been holding back is good as well.
This is sex : http://www.conceptart.org/forums/att...1&d=1190325211

One thing I'm noticing is the profile of the face on the far side (in the 3/4 views). The top and bottom are sometimes at different angles (ie different tilt of the head) and this will put your head off completely. Rather just work on the overall shape with a stroke or 2 so that you have the idea how it will be.
Then just build on top of it.

Looking forward to updates!

[Hyver]

try to force yourself to do drawing exercises without lifting your pencil from the paper.. go real slow to get the shapes and curves in the first go.. repeat untill your lineconfidence is leveled up

[worxe]

heh, I find it hard to bring myself about just to 'comment' on things but I will say one thing from what I've noticed is your line petting, its not so apparent in your last few updates though so I think you are improving from that, but what Hyver said^ about not lifting your pencil from the paper will teach you more about line economy, you dont need to 'pet' in 5 lines to make 1 and getting into the habit of using long and 'confident' strokes will do you a great deal of good, espescially if you decide to try inking one day, another suggestion is to not use an eraser at all so you can't rub it out .. I heard someone say on these boards that I thought is a good quote for it; "grow some balls and live with your lines" .

Another thing I might add is if you dont have enough room where you are, try going outside if it isnt too windy or to a public/school library, if you ask kindly the staff/librarians there will probably let you move some tables about to get your own corner if you wish to work alone in if it isnt too busy, this way you can get bigger sheets of paper, draw larger using your arm and not your wrist and loosen up a bit.

Hope this helps some and keep on drawing.

[DIMAGYAN]

hey stark nice to see you doing studies and improving.

me an inspiration?.... thanks, its really gratifying that what i do can help you at least as motivation. that's mean a lot to me.

the hands are really nice, and as others just says the lines are coming better as also the figures. i never do serious studies in my life until now. i learn many things just observing.observation and studies work together. take your time when you are drawing, observe try to feel what you are drawing. express yourself trought your drawings.(sorry for the sermon)

keep drawing and have fun