Cool shit right here!
Cool shit right here!
Clever man, what can i say .
It's a shame oil has such a hold on our economy.
This probably wont go anywhere
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Originally Posted by Elwell
@ Elwell: succinct!
you can read a bunch of chem nerds arguing about it here:
be nice if it were true, something like Kurt Vonnegut's Ice-9, but without the End of the World.
Hydrogen fuel cells are an interesting and promising source of electricity to turn electric-motored cars.
Never mind the chemistry arguments on digg.com, I'll examine it more simply: this guy has modified an early 90's Ford Escort gasoline engine so that the CAR'S ALTERNATOR is providing all of the electricity to perform the electrolysis that splits water molecules to get hydrogen gas and oxygen gas that mixes with the gasoline to power the engine that TURNS THE CAR'S ALTERNATOR.
The number one question: is the increase in energy provided by the Hydrogen gas added to the gasoline air/fuel mixture large enough to both exceed the additional energy needed to turn that larger alternator AND to help propel the vehicle more efficiently?
Probably not. here's why: the car is set up to inject and burn a specific amount of gasoline per cylinder per cycle. If you add a flammable gas with the appropriate amount of additional oxygen, you get a more powerful combustion. That's good. But if you don't change the gear ratios of the transmission to allow it to turn the engine at a lower speed at a given velocity, you just made the car faster, but not more efficient (see nitrous oxide kits for drag racing). That's bad.
It could be that the car's engine control module was reprogrammed or replaced and now injects less gasoline because of the additional hydrogen gas fuel. But now you have an engine that is generating more of its own fuel which even more which pushes it towards violating the laws of thermodynamics. That's bad. (like a worm eating its own tail)
I think there could be some promise to the theories presented on hytechaps.com BUT they claim that existing cars can be retrofitted with "...only minor modifications." http://hytechapps.com/aquygen/hhos Alternators and the additional high-pressure plumbing and high-voltage cabling needed to install the electrolysis systems are not cheap. Installation of them would not be what I would consider "minor modifications." If you add the Transmission and ECM alterations/replacements which I have theorized as being necessary, you're moving even further away from minor.
All this for a 20-30% increase in mpg? If that Escort made 30mpg (to use a nice round number, not necessarily the actual estimated mpg for that model) before it was molested, it would only make 36-39mpg afterwards.... <sniff, sniff> I smell snake oil.
For lots more info and lots of ranting, check the link to digg.com in my quote below.
Oregano: Klein and hytechapps.com are at the center of the thermodynamic fisticuffs on digg.com
still waiting on hydrogen fuel cells here :-/
Of course it's real, getting people (like the guy i worked with) to understand that it's not running on water but the electrolytic products of water is the hard part. So much misinformation imbues what is really a very mundane process with seemingly magical free energy appeal. Why aren't we electrolysing the oceans? Because it's cheaper to dig another hole, sad as that is. Eventually it will become cheaper to crack water (or use fuel cells) with electricity from renewable sources, and we might all live happily ever after, apart from the ecological legacy of burning all those petrochemicals out of sheer convenience. Economics rules.
Last edited by Snarfevs; May 21st, 2006 at 02:40 AM.
Apparently General Motors spent 2 Billion dollars last year alone on the research, i read that a prototype car has been released, but that it costs a small fortune. But hey.. it works!
If this goes through, the blood baths over oil will be replaced by a more available source of energy.. H2. Now people will be fighting over rivers/lakes and seas!!!
Perfect solution to rising water levels due to global warming!!Originally Posted by claudeEGYPT
There are 3 sides to every story. Yours, mine and THE TRUTH.
Do you think piss would work as well? I'd piss in my own gas tank
Haha! YEa! One problem though, piss has got ammonia.. that will probably blow the car up!
The courrier company where I work is in the process of replacing all it's fuel delivery trucks by hybrids and they also have an hydrogen fuel cell vehicle that they have been testing for about a year. I dunno if it will turn out well because in Ontario where the vehicle is, a part of the electricity is produced by thermic stations so it's causing pollution anyways.
Here's a problem though.. What happens when its cold? The water will freeze and no one will drive!!!
His first test case is a hummer for the military????
Just shows you were actual priorities are in this country.
I have my serious doubts that it works, this is probably an elaborate scam, because it has been proven that breaking the chemical bond between the two hydrogens and the one oxygen(with electrolisis) takes more energy than it actually produces, therefore I fail to see how he can even power that blowtorch or his car for that matter, maybe he converted it to run on wishful thinking.
I read some of the Skeptic comments...And I really must say I don´t thust them so much.Originally Posted by evildisco
Most of them are working or have worked with the purpose of doing the same that Brown claims he did, claiming that he also has plenty of investors and taking their money while he laughts at them. But i see plenty of hatred in their comments, almost like jelous kids.
So, if the first guys investing in Brown´s gas are actually the US military, then we will know if it is a hoax or not.
As for wishfull thinking, I think not, there are already more fuel alternatives around, proven and already in use in some countries, is no wonder that there are better things than oil...People just don´t want to use anything else, and will call stupid, uneffective or hoax to any other just to keep it that way ( for some reason).
Only time will tell, History has a way of having quite the bunch of garage scientist creating revolutionary stuff, and then other scientist calling them fake aswell...cause that´s how it works. If we don´t have people calling things "fake" then people will believe anything without solid proof.
But I would preffer that to be a fight from scientist to scientist...
Here's some reading material http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water and besides it's not like I wouldn't want water to be fuel but to me watching alone that video sounds somewhat iffy and incredibly disingenuous.
On the wiki link there's some mention of experimental high temperature electrolysis but it does not elaborate much more than a small paragraph.
I imagine powering a blowtorch with it would be fairly easy. You just plug it in to generate the gas when you aren't using it. If you built a car to run on it, then it wouldn't be too hard to set up traditional gas stations to produce the gas. The problem, as you said, is it takes so much energy to create the gas. If this came into regular use, unless he's found some super-efficient way of doing this, there'd be a huge drain on power plants. The advantage would be that pollution is easier to control from power plants, but we'd need to build more. There's probably some more reasons as well.Originally Posted by evildisco
YAY! this means i can redo my watergun to a flamethrower
So far, water has been reused since the dawn of time. Dino's piss becomes drinkable water thru natural filters. BUT, once we start to use water as fuel, will we get the water back after it went thru the car and out the emission?
When you burn hydrogen you get water.
My chemistry knowledge has faded somewhat, but one of the basic ways of creating hydrogen is by electrolysis. Basicaly you run a current through water, oxygen bubles at the anode while hydrogen forms at the cathode. The reaction would be:
2H2O(aq) → 2H2(g) + O2(g)
Now when you burn something, there's basicly something reacting with oxygen. So in this case, you can practically reverse the above formula:
2H2(g) + O2(g) → 2H2O(g)
Perfect reaction, non? Where's the catch? Hydrogen is environmental friendly, but to make it you need energy. The trick is to make hydrogen in a way that doesn't harm the environtment, if you make hydrogen with electricity from coalgenerators it's as dirty energy as any fossil fuel.
"It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?"
sounds like you will need boats then...would pay to get your own...don't leave it up to the navy they are usually busy...
Seems like someone didn't get enough attention from their mommy.
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