The other side of Fantasy - cute elf girls

**Jack the R** · May 19th, 2006, 01:23 AM

Found an old painting with anatomy issues and decided to rework it. Here's the new WIP:

Old version:

Reference pics:

Adding in more of the costume design from this pic:

**Snuggles** · May 19th, 2006, 03:14 AM

Don't really approve of how painted over this looks, but I don't do much painting, so I couldn't comment fully on that. It looks pretty good at least, especially like the treatment of the hair, though the skin kind of has this dull thing going, and the eyes and smile...are kind of semi-realistic in a creepy way.
I'd just recommend (on something I do know a bit about,) that if you're going to render it in an overly realistic style, not to use an outfit from something so highly stylized as anime, or to at least go through the steps of adapting it for the style. To be honest, I think the older version did a better job of this. The shoulder piece is far too exaggerated to be a realistic piece of armor, and while that's acceptable, or even preferable and pleasurable, in a stylized piece, it just feels awkward in something that walks with so much realism. Good luck with this one, keep up the good work.

**skullsquid** · May 19th, 2006, 12:36 PM

You either blended a photo or used the underpaint tool, either way, I think you lose.
Given the fact that your work on your homepage does not come close to the level of lighting of these works, you probably did one of the two option above and I must tell you people around here don't appreciate that one bit, me comprised.

**Jack the R** · May 19th, 2006, 02:26 PM

No painting over, underpaint tools, or color sampling was done, PERIOD, end of story.

The lighting is better on this piece because I'm using a reference image, not making the lighting up out of my head. Can I light this good on my own? Probably not (without setting up a model in the real world), but I can eyeball colors and shapes pretty good.

Snuggles - I understand where you're coming from, and thought pretty much the same thing when I decided to adapt the anime designs for a realistic figure. But, when researching costumes, I discovered that various periods and cultures had produced fashions every bit as exagerrated as this, if not more so. Display is also functional. You might think a corset isn't very functional, but if it helps a Victorian woman get the man she wants, and have more children, than it did have a function. Similiarly with some of the ridiculously overlarge helmet decorations of medieval European knights, or samurai - if it intimidates the enemy, it's functional. Exagerrating the size of shoulders is a recurring theme in the history of fashion. The Samurai did it, Victorian women did it, to a more restrained extent we do it today with the shoulder pads of business suits. I'll post a few more reference images later. What I've done here is not at all out of line with popular fashions of the past.

**Elwell** · May 19th, 2006, 03:06 PM

I like the old version better.

**Snuggles** · May 19th, 2006, 03:37 PM

I'm entirely aware, Jack, and I appreciate the idea, but that's partly what I mean by adaptation. Yes, there are exaggerated pieces of clothing in real life too, but they're handled differently. Shoulder pads, for one, wouldn't be that exaggerated in real life. Quite a bit less, I'd think. And for another, they couldn't honestly be that thin, and the triangular shape seems really counterintuitive. They'd have to be an entirely different material, too (as now it looks like cast plastic or something.) On the same level, as much as I love the collar, the way you've rendered it is far too clean to be believable. Even if it's a stiff collar on a brand new outfit, it simply looks a bit awkward. That, and, well, to be honest, unlike the anime picture, your character has no hint of masculinity or aggression in her features, so the shoulder pads (which are used to exaggerate broad shoulders in fashion, which are a natural symbol of strength and masculinity,) seem out of place. Good luck with this one, though.

**Jack the R** · May 20th, 2006, 02:41 AM

Update

I think the leather shoulder piece turned out well. The clasp for her cape is giving me trouble. The cape I've barely touched. I'm not really thrilled with her bangs, and will have to make another pass on them. The collar, as snuggles mentioned is a bit stiff - I'm working on putting a few wrinkles in, but I'm not quite sure how to paint them yet.

snuggles -

Women and big shoulders - truth is stranger than fiction.

Corsets, bustles, big shoulder poofs - it all goes in and out of style. Heck, with the emphasis on booty we have today I wouldn't be surprised to see the bustle make a come back. It's no more stupid than "grills" or piercings.

I've got a piece of leather I've been playing with - it'd work great for the shoulder pieces. Two layers of it, bent over like so, are plenty strong enough to hold the shape, yet supple enough to give if they have to.

**Charlie_2.0** · May 21st, 2006, 10:06 AM

It just looks like a plugin to me + the ears, sorry dude, it just does
______________
SKETCHBOOK
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=68362

**Jack the R** · May 24th, 2006, 03:07 AM

Charlie_2.0 - Dood, I'm 31 years old and I've been painting digitally since 2000. One of the guys who got me started was this fellow here -

http://www.christianlorenzscheurer.com/

- while we were working on The Animatrix: Final Flight of the Osiris.

Now look at these two pictues, from his online portfolio:

http://www.christianlorenzscheurer.c...ngs_zwibi.html

http://www.christianlorenzscheurer.c...gs_haesli.html

My guess is these paintings are made from pictures, probably of Christian's wife. The first one may be the balcony of the house he had in Honolulu - actually I think I may have been in that same spot. Trying to duplicate a photograph, using only your eyes and not droppers or filters or other nonsense, is one of the techniques Christian used to teach himself, which he shared with me, which I am doing here. Got it?

Now I am going to smack the next person who tries to tell me this painting is a filter and not my own hard work.

**JERI** · May 24th, 2006, 03:24 AM

I think what Charlie meant is that the ears look really fake compared to the face. They don't look like they belong together.

Might help if you give her LOTR styled elf ears, but that'll of course lower the impact. Sorry I can't offer anymore dude.

**emily g** · May 24th, 2006, 08:32 AM

1. For those of you who think this is a paintover, I don't know why you think that. I didn't think that at all.

2. I like the hair from the original better than what you have now. There is just more of a feeling of light in the original for me. And I really like how the other ear is showing in the original.

3. I think the way you changed the ears was really good.

4. I really like the way you have combined the cape with the leather shoulder pad. I think it's working really well.

5. A person's neck is a cylinder, and right now I don't get the feeling that the collar is wrapping around a cylinder. I feel like it's folded around something flat.

6. I don't like the branches you added in the background. I don't think you need them, and I think the painting looks much better without them.

Hope some of my thoughts are useful to you,
emily

**evildragonfire** · May 24th, 2006, 12:10 PM

I think she is cute (I love elf females anyway, they taste good on toast

) The favorite one for me is the 2nd one way up at the top of the thread. I like this one because both ears are showing, and for me, she just has an overall higher feeling of "elfishness". Are you going to do a full body painting? I would love to see one done. Good work, I like it

**Jack the R** · May 24th, 2006, 02:10 PM

If anyone can tell me what's wrong with the lighting on the ears, I'm listening. I don't think there are any issues with the shape - Star Trek has proven you can have any wierd shape ear on the human head and it will work.

JERI - LOTR/Star Trek Vulcan ears have been done too many times. It's true they would be easier, but I'm sticking with the long ears.

emily g - I agree, the lighting on the first version's hair is better, because it's based on the photo where the lighting is correct, not made up out of my head. Maybe people will see how an exercise like this is useful - it's helped me see that my big problem is not color, but lighting.

I agree on the neck/collar issue.

I sort of agree on the branches - I'd like to have stuff in the background, but not necessarily what I put in there. The empty background is also good, but people want to see detail everywhere.

emily g, evildragonfire - Here's a painting I did earlier this year, of another "elven" character:

I'm thinking about colorizing this one when I get done with the current painting. I'll post the photo I used for reference later.

About the changes to the ears - I liked the original ears too, but they had a few problems. The biggest is that the above hat wouldn't work with the original ears. I'm not giving up the big Victorian hats, so the ears had to change. I also thought the ears would look funny from the side, and that, if this were ever animated, I'd end up with an ex-Disney guy giving them crazy Dobi the House Elf non-stop motion. It's better for them to be immobile.

**evildragonfire** · May 24th, 2006, 02:19 PM

well, I dont know, and dont care about anyone else...............I like what you are doing......keep it up

BTW, I am not sure if you are aware that the elves in World of Warcraft have rediculously long ears, and no one has complained about those. I think your ear styles work

**Jack the R** · May 25th, 2006, 03:05 AM

Got the cape fixed pretty well. The only part I'm not happy with is the highlight on the nearest corner, but I'm planning to make another lighting pass over the painting and I'll leave the corner until then. Also pushed the trees further into the background, changed the lighting on the ear, and the top leaf part of the clasp. I'm not too happy with that yet.

As promised, here's the reference pick for the black and white painting :

evildragonfire - Thanks! If you like what I'm doing here, you should check out the Record of Lodoss War anime. Get the OVA, not the crappily drawn tv series. My characters started out as fanfic characters (the girl in the color pic was originally Deedlit), but after awhile I decided that would be a waste of effort and decided to take it in a different direction.

**JERI** · May 25th, 2006, 05:27 AM

After seeing that reference pic, I am convinced that you have committed a grave error by adding too much clothes to the girl.

**Jack the R** · May 26th, 2006, 04:41 AM

That's about it, until the next time I feel like revamping it

I'm pretty embarassed by the original now - I can't believe how bad it looks! When I finished it the last time, I really thought it looked near photographic. Now I look at it and it's just crap.

I'm not completely sold on the new one - I need to rework the colors on the face (among other things), but I couldn't find the .psd for the original painting and it's a PITA to work without the hair/face/eyes on seperate layers. I'm moving on.

I know I'm going to get complaints on the collar, but I dug up a bunch of pics of Japanese schoolgirls in sefuku, and the collars really are that stiff, smooth, and clean. At least when worn by models, and not actual school girls.

Most of the curvature is at the back of the neck - the collars are more like rounded triangles. The sides have some curve to them, but it's not dramatic or particularly evident when seen edge on.

JERI - Google for "Liza met-art" and you can find enough nude pictures of Liza to keep yourself entertained, if she's your type. I don't think she's got the best body for an erotic model, but I love her face and attitude for this character.

**MurderClaus** · May 26th, 2006, 06:08 AM

Take a look at the photos and the collar on your image. There's a difference. Also, the ear is far less convincing than the referenced areas. Keep it up.

Jason

**evildragonfire** · May 26th, 2006, 01:53 PM

Hmmm....well, I still think this stuff is fun and cute. I wonder if you would concentrate on doing some backgrounds for these figures? Even if you added some "wisps" or something floating around them to make them even more "elvish", Y'know create that mystical magical aura.

**Jack the R** · May 26th, 2006, 01:59 PM

MurderClaus - Can you expand on what the differences are, and how to fix them? Paintovers are welcome.

evildragonfire - The black and white image has a background, it's just really light

Let me try coloring it first, maybe it won't take too long.