New Artists Seeking Help Come Here!

**Infinitum** · April 4th, 2006, 02:46 AM

Welcome jjohanson, i'm pleased your joining in. However before I can really comment on your drawing you need to do like Kei-th said and rotate it by 90 degrees. Also make it a bit smaller so that we can see it all on one screen.

**orkun** · April 4th, 2006, 04:42 AM

i finished my works.. i'm waiting new topic

thanks for critics...

**Infinitum** · April 4th, 2006, 04:45 AM

No problem Orkun.

If everyone is ready I will post the next topic.

**Infinitum** · April 4th, 2006, 05:29 AM

Ok here is the next topic.

Topic 3

Now that we have drawn solid surfaces I think it would be a good idea if we did a transparent surface.

So, find something made of glass and do as accurate a drawing as possible. Try and include all of the reflections and refractions that you see. It helps not to think of your subject as an object but just a collection of tones and shapes.

Good luck everyone.

**jjohanson** · April 4th, 2006, 06:35 AM

yeah sory about that ill try to fix it on hte next one too ill do the next two in school and when i get home ill post them...thanks for the crits on the shadows..not to sure on how to do those

**jjohanson** · April 4th, 2006, 04:20 PM

well...here are the next two assignment....critic as u plz.... the first is a wallet and the second a cocacola bottle

sorry for the wallets size...cant figure out how to make smaller

**vigostar** · April 4th, 2006, 04:40 PM

jj- before you start putting any pencil to paper sit, stand, laydown however you want to look, no examine your ref. for a few minutes.. Just look at large volumes of mass, planes, how the light is hitting the surface and how that is affecting the shape or appearance. Break it down into three values. Dark, medium then light. Measure distances in your mind.... Like the top of the bottle to the point where it starts curving is about 1/3 the size of the bottle which in relation to the label is about 3/4 the size. Ask yourself all these questions in our head. Try to pick out the little details which you feel are important.. The more information you process in your brain before you start working the better your drawing will be because when you start drawing your thinking more about execution and less about scrutinizing your ref.
as far as a crit for our work.. I have made certain general comments before which not many have taken into consideration... For one "grounding" your drawing. put that bottle on a surface. This will help you tremondously to get the proper perspective and mindset. Right now that bottle only really has one shade which is basically a middle shade. There is really no light nor dark range in color or shade. The top of the bottle looks crooked (have pride in your work, make sure those shapes are straight, sharp, and neat). The wallet is better then the bottle in which its you can actually start to make out the volume and mass... but, its still lacking light and dark shades. If you want to get better at drawing I would sayfor you to redraw these... Artists sometimes have to redraw their artwork over and over until they get it right... Take some of the pointers I gave you and try to use them... Keep going... I hope im not discouraging you.. by working hard is the only way to see great results.. good luck.. i look foward to seeing more

**Kei-th** · April 4th, 2006, 05:28 PM

my 2nd attempt on T2. I think it's beter but the scan is kind of bad, in real it was darker.

I am kind of scared for the glass drawing.. It get's to complicated for me. I can't get it to a easy explanation for each bundle of light. Like I can do for shadow.
But ofcourse I will try but not now it time to go to bed.

**jjohanson** · April 4th, 2006, 10:01 PM

yeah thanks i see what ur saying ill readraw these some and see if i can put some of the things u said into it....hopefully see better results this time.....

**jjohanson** · April 4th, 2006, 11:01 PM

allright i redid the wallet with some of the things u described to me....is it any batter i think i am gonna also choose another simpler glass surface to draw...and thanks vigo star when i was redoing the wallet i did map it out ahead of time and it was easier and i do think it looks better

**Infinitum** · April 5th, 2006, 02:33 AM

jjohanson - Vigostar has given good advice to you. Some specific points I want to make are, Make your images smaller. It's easier to crit if I can see it all at once. I think the wallet is the better of the two. I think the main thing you should work on is making you initial lines accurate and firm. These objects have a solid edge so make your drawing have that too. That dosn't mean a solid line around your drawings just a firm adge to ytour tones.

I think the best point vigostar has made is to take pride in your work and to treat every one like a portfolio piece. There is a line in lone wolf and cub that I think sums it up. "if you treat each day like it's your last then failure becomes unthinkable."

Vigostar - Thanks for posting again. Thats good advice.

Kei-th - Not bad. You need more tone on it though and firmer edges like I just said to jjohanson. You are drawing a solid object so it needs to have that feel on your page as well.

Don't worry about the glass drawing. Just draw what you see. Give it ago and we will help you to improve.

jjohanson - Much better! The wallet looks like a solid object now. The only thing I would say is that it seems to be hovering above the table a bit. Try not to create shade by smudging and put your cast shadows right up to the object.

**jjohanson** · April 5th, 2006, 06:44 AM

ok thanks yeah i see what u mean...il try to do that in the next few drawings

**kais** · April 5th, 2006, 08:05 AM

wow, the thread has really grown since I last checked

Here is my glass topic drawing, a corona bottle (I know you dont care about the brand but I felt like saying it

).
sry If its maybe a bit late, I ve been busy.... homework homework test more homework... -_-

I scanned it, though it really doesnt look really good...not like the original ( I leveled the drawing with PS to make the shadows stand out more)

I tried taking a pic with my webcam, but I think its even worst

I ll try taking on with my dad s digital camera

EDIT: here s the pic with my dads camera... errr, it looks a bit distorted

pld:

**Infinitum** · April 5th, 2006, 08:25 AM

Not bad Kais. It has the look of glass to it but I think you need to make your original drawing firmer and more accurate. You need to fix things like the slanted bottle top as you go along because once you start rendering these thing become difficult to change.

**Kei-th** · April 5th, 2006, 09:15 AM

Thanks Infinitum I will try to draw the same image again today. But I have some probs with the soft edge thing. I understand why I need to use them but I don't know how to make them it usually looks as a flat thing, like with my cone and my cilinder.
I will give a shot at a parfume bottle today.

**orkun** · April 5th, 2006, 10:24 AM

turkish tea

im glad to cathed up again..

i will contine..

**kais** · April 5th, 2006, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Infinitum

Not bad Kais. It has the look of glass to it but I think you need to make your original drawing firmer and more accurate. You need to fix things like the slanted bottle top as you go along because once you start rendering these thing become difficult to change.

Ah yes, thank you. the bottle top does look a bit weird. hmm, I think I have another bottle drawing around here somewhere...
Oh well, I ll make another one, if I have time... although I should always have time for this

**vigostar** · April 5th, 2006, 11:36 AM

orkun- good to see that you gave this thread another go. I was wondering if you had read any other of the previous comments made? I think that this thread will only help the people working on these different assignments if they read all the crits of all the artist. The biggest problem I see with your drawing at first glance is the perspective. the opening of the glass doesnt seem to fit with the rest of the drawing. check your perspective and give this drawing another try.

something else I just thought about and this is a general comment to all the artist is that we artists always have to think of ways to "work out" our drawings.. We are constantly plagued with problems concerning a drawing. Maybe the ref. or drawing your working on is dark, and when your looking at the object only certain parts are illuminated but, for artistic purposes sometimes we have to imagine what the oject as a whole looks like in order to achieve our goals. Same thing goes fo this topic. In my opinion I think Ian aka Infinitum picked a rather difficult task. Recreating glass has to be one of the hardest surfaces to replicate along with metals or shiney metals for that matter. The problem an artist faces when trying to create an object made of glass is figuring out how to create a three dimensional object when something is transparent. In the case of Orkun's glass drawing you can see there is a three dimensional object because of the circulare opening but, every other part of that drawing doesnt relate a three dimensional object. (Orkun I hope you dont mind me using you as an example). So, how do we solve this problem of creating a three dimensional object when its see through? Well, theoretically we can assume that ojects or surfaces farther away from the viewer are usually darker then the ones closest (unless the lighting suggest otherwise) is there a way of creating that illusion while not hindering the affect of a transparent glass which is closest to the viewer? That is some of the questions and problems we as artists ask ourselves. so, before you go onto the next glass drawing. Ask yourself how your going to solve the problem before you start drawing. Theres an artist on this forum named E.Denis he does paintings of wine bottles http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...hlight=e.denis.

Also, staying with the topic of problems artists face when creating a drawing... Flynt touched on that subject whn I asked him about creating more "creative" artwork. He mentioned how he had to be creative when imagining how he was going to go about painting certain parts of his last painting like the handle on the sword which was pink on his ref. or the background in his painting http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...hlight=e.denis.

Anyways.. Im going to try and give these a go hopefully soon. Ive been working on my portfolio for the MB workshop so thats been eating up my time. good luck guys

**Kei-th** · April 5th, 2006, 05:17 PM

My third attempt on T2. I don't think it is any beter then my second try. I really have a hard time with thoe smooth surfaces.

My first attempt on T3. Reflections are hard and the luiqid in side + transparent + reflection is even harder!
I thought I picked a easy shape but it was hard!

please give me ANY critique you can think of.

**jjohanson** · April 5th, 2006, 08:09 PM

kei-th, one thing u may want to do is what they have been telling me to do, get the major lines and shapes in first then try to detail...that is what i believe may help u as ur lines seem to be very sketchy. also on the box it may help to use the point reference perspective teqnuiqe. i think that may help u. i may not be one to be saying anything bubt i think that is what mey help...as it is what i am focusing on too right now... but jsut some ideas that may help

**Cup of Joe** · April 5th, 2006, 09:32 PM

Kei-th- One of the problems that jumps out at me on the glass one is the misplaced horizon line. Since I'm not very good at explaining these things, I'll whip up a diagram tomorrow when I have more time.

Tried this today. There are a few mistakes I didn't see in the shape until after I scanned it. Maybe I should start looking at my things in the mirror? I also may have made the whole thing too dark, losing the transparent quality.

Thanks again everyone!

**orkun** · April 6th, 2006, 03:18 AM

but i cant understand complitely..
ok.. i think i got it... i will draw again...
it's no problem vigostar.. thanks..

**kais** · April 6th, 2006, 10:18 AM

Cup of Joe- I think it looks nice, I can feel its made of glass, but like you said, the shape makes the bottle look awkward, so I find it less realistic. But apart that, I think its good.

Infinitum- would it be okay for me to post some drawing of mine so you -or anyone else- could critizice them?would-that be off-topic?
they are characters btw.

**Kei-th** · April 6th, 2006, 10:51 AM

kais maybe you could beter just make a topic in the Critique part of the forum other wise this can turn out like a dumb of images fomr ppl who want critique

**Infinitum** · April 6th, 2006, 04:04 PM

Good to see everyone keeping up with this. It's great that your all so willing to learn.

Orkun - Not bad. The shape is quite good and having the spoon there is a good idea. It is a very good way of showing refraction. However I think there would be more refraction than you have shown. I think you need to work on your tones though. It has all come out a fairly similar grey. To create reflections you have acurately show the lights and darks.

Vigostar - Good point about everyone reading all posts. A lot of the points would help everybody. So everyone read all the comments not just your own. You will learn more that way.

Your right this was a difficult task maybe too difficult at this stage. However my aim was to improve everyone,s observational skills by choosing a subject that needs to really use those skills. Though I think there is a common thing that everyone needs on work on now. I think everyone needs to make sure there lines are accurate before doing any rendering. So i'm going to base the next topic on that.

Thanks for posting those two artists. I have seen thier work before and it is really amazing.

I'm looking forward to seeing you join in on this. Good idea focusing on the workshop though. That could be a real break for you or at least alot of fun. Good luck with it.

Kei-th - I think your first attempt was better but it is good that you gave it another try. You will learn something each time you do one of these.

As for your glass object, I think you would have found it easier to choose an empty object. As you transparency plus liquid makes it even harder. The main thing you and several other people should focus on is to make you initial drawing as acurate as possible before rendering any shading. The next topic will hopefully help with that.

Cup of Joe - Your rendering of the glass is quite good. It does feel like glass. However the bottle has a distorted shape. As I have just said to Kei-th you need to focus on getting you initial drawing right first. everything else builds on that so it is very important.

Kais - I don't really want work posted that is off the topics. However I am happy to look at it and give what advice I can. You could create a thread in the critique section and post the link here or you can pm them to me if you want to. I'll help as much as I can. We will be moving on to characters in the future so that will help too.

Orkun - I think your first one was better. However it is good that you gave it another go. It is good to keep practising these things.

Here is mine.

**Kei-th** · April 6th, 2006, 05:04 PM

Infinitum
Thanks for your thoughts! I will draw a new glas object tomorrow if I have the time! Your drawing looks just GREAT!

**jjohanson** · April 6th, 2006, 08:24 PM

just wondering when a new topic is gonna roll around..im itching to have something to draw

**Cup of Joe** · April 6th, 2006, 09:40 PM

Nice one Infinitum! But the top elipse is a little lopsided.

Tried this again with a different approach. I have a few more ideas to try tomorrow for this. Also tried to get the construction as spot on as I could.

**Master Krepta** · April 7th, 2006, 12:53 AM

Im back. I've been so busy latley that its been tough to get these done. i redid the first excercise twice so far and i moved over to the second one. still needs more work but just wanted to let you know im still here

**kais** · April 7th, 2006, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Kei-th

kais maybe you could beter just make a topic in the Critique part of the forum other wise this can turn out like a dumb of images fomr ppl who want critique

yes, you are right, if I put my drawings here off topic the thread will end up being a "post anything and critizice" thread.

Which is not what this is supposed to be.

Infinitum- I entirely understand your position

thank you for your offer

Master Krepta- this is nice.
too bad we cant really see the lines on the second one. I take it it was scanned, well happens to me too that the lines dont come out enough

#1 you should try to work more on the shapes of the objects to make them feel more real. The shade is good, although blending them would also give a sort of harmony to the object.
#3 nice outlines, you could make them firmer to make the mouse stand out. same for #1 on the shadows I think, try blending them more together, like by smudging them with a finger and erasing what overflowed on the drawing.
thats my 2 cents, maybe you should wait for Infinitum's critics to see what he tells you

anyways, keep it up.