Gutter Ballet...Finished

[MarkHarchar]

Hi all,
I decided to try pushing my ability a bunch and decided to try to put on paper what I have in my head. The title will be GutterBallet and what I envision is a dancer in the street, in front of a tall building. I want the horizon line at the knees so that you are looking up at the dancer. I thought that I should use three point perspective to get an angular view. I have sketched the perspective lines and the figure, the sidewalk lines and curb. Does this appear correct? Also, I am at a loss as to how to put the building in the correct perspective.

Can anyone give me some tips?

Thanks in advance!
H

[madster]

You will want the building to get narrower as it gets taller, and for visual continuity, should consider your vanishing point being above the building.

The dancer needs work. I would suggest you do a Google Image Search for some reference pics.
* Her left breast is too high, and her right one is too low
* The feet are misshapen and are two completely different sizes
* One thigh is much fatter than the other, and too fat for the rest of the figure
* The rigid skirt looks really weird, especially since your POV from her knees makes it look like some really pervy up-skirt shot
* Why does her left arm have two elbows???

~M

[Delta 1]

Its a good start! But you will want to listen to him--he is wiser than I! I like it though!

[dogfood]

In addition to the other valid comments, it seems like you've sacrificed sound figure development in order to use the "building" framework. One of the consequences is that it looks incredibly flat, though flat to the right-hand plane (like a dancer cut-out), making it 2-d in a 3-d space. What would probably be more profitable than using this construction method is to practice drawing the figure from different eye-levels. Just fill a page with figures, each horizon about a quarter of the body lower, from half a body above the head, all the way to the floor. It should take less than an hour, depending on the detail you put in (you don't need much).

[MarkHarchar]

Thanks Madster and Dogfood,

There are definitely the anatomy issue caused by my forcing this perspective that I can see now. I also can see the "paper cutout"-ness of the dancer figure from the right plane. I want this piece to turn out well rather than just become a crappy throw aside sketch, so I will take your advice and do some figure construction, then fit into the perspective. I also think that 2 point might work better than 3 point in this case.

All post again when these issues are resolved.

[MarkHarchar]

Ok. I believe that I have resolved a bunch of the problems. I believe the figure hasa more 3-D look to her. I believe the perspective lines up with each side of her body. I think the feet are fixed and the legs are the same thickness. No more two elbows and the tutu isn't as rigid. I change the building to 2 point rather than 3 point which I think will look better. I still need to adorn the building dorrs, fire escape, garbage bags. And I think her needs a little work and thoughts would be appreciated. I will have a bunch of time this weekend to finish or at least get it a bunch farther.

Thanks again guys. I really want to learn here.

[MarkHarchar]

I have worked on this a bunch and I think I may be ready to render in pencil, or to paint in photoshop. Can anyone add any crits to this before I head down that path with will undoubtedly take me forever?

Thanks in advance.

[madster]

ANATOMY!!!
Her tits are still terrible!
one is too high, and the other still looks saggy...They're not plastic grapefruit halves that ride up like a bad t-shirt, or droop like that (in most younger dancers, at least).
If you had done an image search (as was suggested), you would have seen pictures like this:



Also, you still have a "double elbow" thing going...again, reference pix:

If you are trying to represent the shoulder muscle as the arm is raised overhead, it shouldn't look like a small canned ham.

The fire escape ladder is too flat, and the rungs are too wide.
The alley between the two buildings looks very contrived, and not realistic at all.
The sidewalk appears to be about 15 feet wide, and the door is way too short in proportion to the rest of the piece.

~M

[MarkHarchar]

Madster, quit the coddling. Tell me how you really feel...

Anyway, in response, I did research and lookup references (as suggested)



I do agree, the alley should be wider. I can subdivided the side walks so that they don't look so large and the ladder is a bit flat.

WHat I don't understand is the saggy boob, should and door comments, especially considering my 2 vanishing point perspective view. I have drawn in my perspective lines. Can you explain, why they are wrong? Because from my (albeit limited) understanding, this appears correct.

[Symytry]

I think you pretty much already have a clear image in your mind about how this picture should look, so take the picture into photoshop or painter and paint it up! See what happens!

[machzero]

hylandr2, try doing a doodle or rough thumbnail first before doing the perspective lines. Otherwise you'll end up with some bizzare geometry (the fire escape raillings are atleast 6 feet high with the whole thing potruding atleast 5 feet from the wall).

also, you mentioned 3 point perspective in your first post, but didn't implement it. Something like this...

[stoph]

sorry, hylandr2, madster is quite right about this one. in reality she would be of the two-dimensional kind. the application of such strict (and rapidly vanishing) lines of perspective, then drawing her on only one plane has made her horribly skewed.. almost as if she were painted on a wall. the concept is there, the execution is not. i dont wanna step on toes here (they look a little pointy, after all ), but yeah thats the case and i rest it, your Honour.





i move for a mistrial on the grounds that i said so!

[Isamov]

Some technical notes on some stuff not related directly to the dancer.

Her tutu is still a little wonky, and perhaps a little too rigid. The fire escape is also asymetrical, and the right side (on the page) is at a funky angle.


And not related to anything, but I love your sig.

[MarkHarchar]

'Stoph, I understand my execution is horribly off here. (I should have stuck to stick figures.) So that I understand, would it have been more appropriate to draw the dancer out of the perspective of the rest of the background? My attempt here was to have the lines of her body match the perspective line, but maybe that is an incorrect assumption on my part. I actually think that machzero's perspective adjustment looks a bit better than my 2-point. I think at this point that I am going to finish up the mods that have been suggested, do a quick pencil rendering and move on and try to get some more studying in. My classes start in 3 weeks. Can't wait.

Isamov, you are probably right about the tutu. Unfortunately, I have never wore one (you know, not in public...) and am totally unfamiliar with how a tutu should lay and how rigid it should be, but I am pretty sure that it probably isn't like that.

I'll post a last revision, just so everyone doesn't think I'm a quitter.

[MarkHarchar]

Well here we are. This is as much as I can put into this piece. This has been an interesting learning experience for me. I have learned alot. I'll try to give a quick crit of myself, then feel free to jump on the band wagon.

Mid-values, mid-values, mid-values. I also realized that I can't render buildings to save my life. Rendering water is an issue for me as well. Perspective, I have the concept, but as 'Stoph has stated, the execution is lacking. What I think this came down to is a decent idea that turned more into a learning excercise than a mice piece. I'll keep working though.

Here it is.