New piece WIP critique welcome

[cfhd]

Hey guys, I've got something here I've been working on a bit this week. Still have a bit to go obviously, like rendering the horse and I'm going to put a knight or some sort of hero on the horse.

Just looking for some crits or any ideas anyone has before I move forward.

Thanks!

[Velocity Kendall]

try using a much bigger brush, to avoid the hairy lines look.

[cfhd]

Thanks, will do. I definitely fall victim to using a small brush all the time for some reason. Appreciate the feedback.

[Velocity Kendall]

me too.

[Dumb Naked King]

I won't comment on the landscape, since I know nothing of such things, but the horse is not looking right. For starters, the head is too large and the rear end is too low and small. Just google "horse" and it'll give you all the sideview pictures you need for size reference, generally speaking the butt should appear roughly as large as the chest, unless the horse is starving. Also the tail appears to be growing out of the... well, lets just say it's too low. The angle of the front legs looks very unnatural; you have to remember that a horse is a heavy creature on relatively thin legs, so it can not stand like a dog, especially not if you intend to put someone on its back! The front legs should go in a pretty straight line down from the shoulder to the ground, to support all that weight.

[cfhd]

Thanks, you're right about the horse. I knew something didn't look right about it. Its actually the first horse I've ever drawn in my life so I was kind of flying blind. I certainly have some things to fix with the pic. I'm glad I came in here to get some feedback so far tho. Very much appreciate the help guys.

[fersteger2]

Good start, I'd suggest breaking up the pattern of the clouds, it almost looks like a simple cloud filter because they are so regular, try to get variety and interesting shapes into the clouds first before rendering them out, spend more time blocking stuff in and getting it right before using that small brush and rendering out little details.

The lighting and coloring looks good. You can add a mountainside catching strong light behind the horse's behind to really help pop the dark horse and bring it even closer to the viewer. Keep working and post an update!

[Hexokinase]

The clouds have too much visual noise. The light rays on top also stretch a bit further than they need to. The foreground mountains on the left get way too dark - so dark that it obscures the silhouette of the horse.

You should be planning your values in big major groups so that the viewer can differentiate foreground from middle and background. Did you do any thumbnails before jumping into this?

[fxEVo]

The black of the background on the left is too black and it's like suddenly the universe collapse and there is a black hole there, usually even in the darkest environment there is still light haze from the global illumination of the sky.

[cfhd]

Good start, I'd suggest breaking up the pattern of the clouds, it almost looks like a simple cloud filter because they are so regular, try to get variety and interesting shapes into the clouds first before rendering them out, spend more time blocking stuff in and getting it right before using that small brush and rendering out little details.

The lighting and coloring looks good. You can add a mountainside catching strong light behind the horse's behind to really help pop the dark horse and bring it even closer to the viewer. Keep working and post an update!

Thanks a lot. I'll see what I can do about the clouds. I was using a pretty basic cloud brush I found to paint them in. Will see if I can break them up a bit but I'm not great with clouds so we'll see what happens.

Definitely agree about doing something with the left hand side to make the horse and character (when I paint him) pop out. That area of the painting has been annoying me the whole time.

The clouds have too much visual noise. The light rays on top also stretch a bit further than they need to. The foreground mountains on the left get way too dark - so dark that it obscures the silhouette of the horse.

You should be planning your values in big major groups so that the viewer can differentiate foreground from middle and background. Did you do any thumbnails before jumping into this?

Thanks for the feedback. No thumbnails. I actually started this as a photo study that looked sort of similar. I liked the composition of the photo but after I blocked in the mountains I decided to make it my own.

I agree with the light rays they should really only be about half as long as they are right now.

The black of the background on the left is too black and it's like suddenly the universe collapse and there is a black hole there, usually even in the darkest environment there is still light haze from the global illumination of the sky.

Yep, that part of the pic is pretty f'd up right now. Going to have to fix it.


I really appreciate all the feedback guys and gals. I'm basically going to do a paint overtop of this tonight, try to use a bigger brush to avoid the thin lines, fix the left hand side with some sort of grassy knoll, shorten the light rays, see about changing the clouds a bit and if I have time rework the proportions of the horse.

Again, thanks a lot.

[cfhd]

Alright guys here is what I have done for tonight. Didn't get as much time to work on it as I would like. Still have a lot to go. I think it looks way better now tho. Smoothed out the lines a bit, cut the light beams down, added a better foreground and tweaked some of the colours.

Tomorrow I'll try to finish up the landscape part and get some real work on the foreground horse/hero part.

Let me know what you think or any suggestions.

Thanks!

[Velocity Kendall]

maybe get some distance blue on the fucker

[cfhd]

Good call. I'll see what I can do tomorrow. Thanks!

[cfhd]

Ok, so I had an extra 15 minutes before work to spend on this. Didn't get to the adding a blue tint yet but I really liked the idea of breaking up the clouds and altering the castle shadow on the water so I added that a bit.

Still loads of work to do but its moving along now.

[Velocity Kendall]

etc

[cfhd]

Ok, heres where I'm at with this. Moved some things around, added some blue for distance. Worked the clouds a bit more and added some more highlights.

Let me know what you think.

[cfhd]

Ok, just wanted to do a bit of a form check on the horse and knight.

Does the horse look believable now form wise?

Any feedback at this stage would be great, thanks.

[Giacomo]

A good rule of thumb with landscapes is that the sky will almost always be much brighter overall than anything in the landscape. (Unless you're in the northern UK, in which case you should move somewhere more hospitable. ) The other useful thing to remember with landscapes is to try and create dramatic contrast in the forms--big vs. little, hard vs. soft, dark vs. light, crunchy vs. creamy, etc. With that in mind I submit the paintover below. Hopefully it is of some use.

[Giacomo]

Actually, after a bit of reflection I think I'd also probably pull back the saturation a bit:

[cfhd]

Definitely appreciate the feedback. That said, I think it would be too much of a change from what Im going for at this point. Thanks a lot tho.

[cfhd]

Ok guys, I think I'm pretty much done on this piece. Really appreciate all the help.

I'm kind of looking forward to moving on to something else after spending so much time on this. That said, if you think there are things that need fixing let me know and I'll see what I can do.

[TNiznet]

Hey Cfhd, great progress and improvement from the initial start up, keep in mind an environment will have about 3 separate atmospheric range of values that pushes the eye back, ex:fore ground, mid-ground and background. Your piece only has about two, that warm foreground and that cool-warm change in the mid-ground, if you went a bit more cooler behind those cliff structures maybe you can add more depth. Also try to vary your values or tones, everything (color) seems to be a local color and contain non variations, shadows can get darker and not just be one tone, if that makes sense O.o, same with light, it can get lighter around its surrounding instead of it just being one stroke of light. I hope I helped, good luck with your future endeavors and good job, I love the horse haha.

[cfhd]

Thanks. Will do. By cliff structures you mean on the far left right? not under the castle?

[TNiznet]

Thanks. Will do. By cliff structures you mean on the far left right? not under the castle?

Just about under the castle in the middle region, here is a quick mockup on how I might have approached it. There are many different ways but here is an attempt. Do you see how the different tone of blue with some darker tones adds a bit more depth, it pushes you back, making the eye travel further or feel the space. Hopefully it makes a bit more sense haha. From what I know, an environment typically would have about 3 range of values, foreground, mid, back. It adds depth upon the other, I may be wrong but It always seems to give a stronger feel of space.

[cfhd]

Alright, here it is with a few slight changes. I think it looks a bit better. Thanks. Gonna have to call it as done now I think.

[Dumb Naked King]

Once again, I'll leave the landscape to people who know what they're talking about... The horse looks much better now. For future reference, regardless of what kind of horse you're drawing, try to match the muscle definition on the body with the legs; right now you've got a bit of a potato-on-toothpicks thing going on, especially in front with that beefy chest. You need to reconsider how you've drawn the hind legs, and the head is still a little large - frankly it looks like a (thin-legged) icelandic horse, which I guess wasn't quite what you were going for (unless it's a very short knight... Tyrion, is that you?).

Have a look at these:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_GhcCFcMfw-...cleanatomy.jpg
http://www.naturalhorsetraining.com/...omydrawing.jpg (some basic terminology)
Let's focus on the close hind leg for instance; (and again, I'm assuming this is a proper battle horse and not a silly pony) you've shortened the cannon, partly by itself and partly by making the pastern too long. I think it would help if you took some care next time to try to understand specific structures, for example the hock. The hock is a very bony structure which involves a number of distinct shapes and angles. It seems you're unsure of how it's built, so you just rendered the entire thing as a rounded lump with no clear defintion, which kind of makes it look like you stuck a human shin where the hock should be.
The ears are droopy and not very horse-like, and the knight could stand to be raised a little higher up on its back to imply the presence of a saddle (just a suggestion; technically I guess he could be riding bareback too, but that would probably be very uncomfortable for both the rider and the horse, since they look like they've been travelling a long way).

These are just a few of the things you could work on. I think it would be pointless to go on and on since you feel done with it and you probably get the point I'm trying to get across: you need to study study study, preferably from real life if you get the opportunity. But as I said, a lot better this time. Did you use a reference?

I'm sorry if I don't make sense sometimes, English isn't my first language.