-The Hobbit - Practicing Stylizing

[AlanTheRobot]

I thought I'd post the results here before I go through with the piece. Once I pick one I'll be printing it, transferring it to another paper, and painting it in watercolor. I wanted to do the piece in a cartoony style because of his grumpy expression, but I think I'm going to stick with the realistic one for now (my mind craves realism) but... which one is your favorite? Any tips on what to make more pronounced or other ways to approach creating a style. The obvious thing was the feet, which were a pain to get right because I had no reference, than his stature. So I messed with those. But I'm not sure how else I could have changed it.



I left the fingers as a very rough guide because I'll really draw them once I transfer the drawing.

[Venger]

If you can confer the third expression to the first image, maybe even more so, really sell it (without it looking cartoony) then I'd go with number 1.

[AlanTheRobot]

That's not a bad idea. I'll give it a try. Just the expression or the entire giant head?

[Venger]

Just the expression.

[Psychotime]

That "cartoony" face is stiff and boring. All you did was turn his features into some quick symbols and simultaneously made his expression even more subdued.

You said you want to give a cartoony look to ADD to his expression? You don't seem to be trying. I'm serious. Insincere cartoons always irk me.

[AlanTheRobot]

I just wanted to draw him more cartoony because of the expression. It was actually really hard to get any of them right. I felt odd overexaggerating. But that's why I'm practicing.

[Psychotime]

Quick question: When you first thought "cartoon", what came to mind? A particular look or artist?

[AlanTheRobot]

Nothing in particular. Just a few different Hobbit fanartists. I didn't look the up again because it would have influenced my drawings too much, but maybe I should have.

[AlanTheRobot]

Wow this looks much better. Thanks so much. I'm really liking the idea of keeping the body realistic but stylizing just the facial features.

[surrealistic]

1 and 3 are my favourite. 3 looks much betterin in the newer version but his nose doesnt look like a version of the nose in 1, it looks like a different nose thats been cartooned. still looks awesome so far!

[Venger]

Hmmm, still think it needs more expression, and the eyes are very dead.
Sell it more than the original ref (you have to encapsulate the entire scene in one shot)

[Psychotime]

Wow this looks much better.

Sorry, if you ask me, it looks just as stiff and bland as the last time.

I should point out that I think your "realistic" face is better than any of the others. I just focused on the "cartoony" one for obvious reasons.

[mecos]

i like the first one the best but he looks like a large person, not a small hobbit. i think his head is too small

[Cyberman]

I think making the middle parts of the eyebrows go down just a little bit, and putting one more knot in the brow would help.
It looks cool though would like to see it with watercolor nice fusion idea.
-Sean.

[AlanTheRobot]

... it looks like a different nose thats been cartooned. still looks awesome so far!

If you read through the posts you'll see somebody suggested I merge face 3 with body 1. And thanks

[AlanTheRobot]

Hmmm, still think it needs more expression, and the eyes are very dead.
Sell it more than the original ref (you have to encapsulate the entire scene in one shot)

I'll try. The eyes might feel dead because they're just black? Because they don't feel dead to me, but maybe that's because I know what the final piece will look like... Also the whole scene will be there, it won't be just him standing in a white background.

Sorry, if you ask me, it looks just as stiff and bland as the last time.
I should point out that I think your "realistic" face is better than any of the others. I just focused on the "cartoony" one for obvious reasons.

Well, don't know what to say. I have problems drawing emotions and compared to other attempts I've improved. I tended to want to go for a completely neutral expression or I often couldn't make an evil grin look different than a smile and vice versa.
I quite like it now so I'm going ahead with it. Also, I don't know how to make it look not stiff and bland... If you've got any advice, I'll give it a try though.

I think making the middle parts of the eyebrows go down just a little bit, and putting one more knot in the brow would help.
It looks cool though would like to see it with watercolor nice fusion idea.
-Sean.

I'll give it a try. I'm not quite sure what you mean by knot though? I will post the final version when it's done.

i like the first one the best but he looks like a large person, not a small hobbit. i think his head is too small

That was his real size (it's proportional to the picture), perhaps because he's standing next to ones with giant heads. I mean, in the movie he only looks small because of Gandalf and other regular sized people.

[JFierce]

As some famous artist who I can't name says, the eyes let the viewer into the head/thoughts of the character. The expression is everything. He's reading. He could look surprised, contemplative, upset, any number of things.


Quick slight paintover because I enjoy expressions. They give the characters their entire personality.
My suggestion make him interact more with whatever he's reading. Make the viewer wonder what's going on in his head.



Also don't forget to angle his head/chin, ear etc to face the right direction. Which I didn't do in the paintover lol.

[Kiera]

The expression on the first picture on the last figure was brilliant.
It has gone downhill from here.

Don't overexaggerate it and dumb it down to a super-obvious emotion.
Don't overthink it by making him look on the paper or moving around his eyebrows to make the expression more plausible,
that dumbs it down too.

The first expression perfectly catched someone who just read some big bullshit
and gets a thousand yard stare because he can't process what he just read.
There's a mix of disbelieve and anger bubbling up in his face, but it's not there yet.
As a bonus, you've catched the expression head on with that cartoony exaggeration.

It's a really funny expression because it tells the whole story of what happened and what will happen:
He just read the papers, right now he can't believe what is written there and
he is about to get angry and react in some hilarious way (like exploding with rage or being all weird and quiet).
That is what creates a tension for the viewer.
The moment before something happens, before the shit hits the fan
or before the hot poker goes in the eye is often more interesting than the action itself.

By moving his eyes down it just becomes the expression of a guy who's reading something confusing.
By changing the expression to anger or scepticism, you've got the climax already and miss the tension.
Sometimes showing a surpressed emotion that is about to break through is the most interesting thing you can do.

--

I'm such a nerd, here's the theory in action:
http://youtu.be/iR6KjNmN2BA
How interesting/funny is Ren at the beginning of the clip when he's obviously angry with shouting, pointy teeth and angry eyes.
How interesting/funny is he when he surpresses his rage and tries to be calm while actually boiling with anger

[Psychotime]

I'm such a nerd, here's the theory in action:
http://youtu.be/iR6KjNmN2BA
How interesting/funny is Ren at the beginning of the clip when he's obviously angry with shouting, pointy teeth and angry eyes.
How interesting/funny is he when he surpresses his rage and tries to be calm while actually boiling with anger

Haha, nice. Not so sure if pointing to Ren and Stimpy is the best for this topic, but it sure as hell is something to check out for good cartoony extreme expressions. Spumco certainly made it their business to push themselves when it came to those.

That said, I think the OP should avoid going that far at this point.

OP, if you haven't already, try to make the actual expression you're aiming for with a mirror on hand.

It was Kiera's post that made me realize what on earth the character's supposed to be emoting at all. Even your best face doesn't make it clear as to what his expression really is or what's going on.

There need to be more cues, and you don't (and REALLY should not, in my opinion) have to go Ren and Stimpy in order to portray it clearly.

[AlanTheRobot]

I think I should have posted the original image for everyone to see (mines flipped to check for errors):



@Jfierce: Thanks for taking the time to do a paint over, but unfortunately I'm not seeing those emotions. I don't think they match the original one.

He could look surprised, contemplative, upset, any number of things.

Not really if I want him to have the same expression as in the original. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
Also I don't know what you're talking about with angling his chin... I believe it's facing right.

@Kiera: Sorry, so are you saying they're okay? or that I should make it more subtle? Your phrasing confused me a bit.

@Psychotime: I can't even smile in front of the mirror. I'm not very good at replicating emotions. Probably why I have problems with them. I could see a smile in the mirror and others will tell me I'm actually grimacing or making a face of disgust.

Thanks for all the help everyone. As I said I think I'm satisfied with the last one I did so I'll go with it. Especially looking back at the original photo. I emphasized the expression a bit, but not too much, and the nose is more prominent which was a problem with the realism. I didn't like his nose much in the first as it was hardly noticeable.

[JFierce]

Ah didn't know you were basing it off an original scene, thought you were doing an original.
Then I have 2 things to comment on that it doesn't feel your character has.

The wrinkled brow, you have it in the first try but the other features don't match, that expression is contemplative suggested also by the cheek slightly being drawn back, looks like he's slightly biting his lip. Since If I remember that scene he was reading and a bit confused trying to take in what was going on. Then the fact that he's staring down at his paper being the focus of the composition. Yours it isn't centered on the character reading we're viewing the full character while the scene from the movie on the other hand is centered directly on the character reading that pamphlet, zoomed in on his torso to face everything else is blurred out because that's the focus.

It's going to be hard getting that subtle emotion with only a few strokes unless it's very large in the frame imo. Especially if it's supposed to be stylized.

[AlanTheRobot]

The wrinkled brow, you have it in the first try but the other features don't match, that expression is contemplative suggested also by the cheek slightly being drawn back, looks like he's slightly biting his lip. Since If I remember that scene he was reading and a bit confused trying to take in what was going on. Then the fact that he's staring down at his paper being the focus of the composition. Yours it isn't centered on the character reading we're viewing the full character while the scene from the movie on the other hand is centered directly on the character reading that pamphlet, zoomed in on his torso to face everything else is blurred out because that's the focus.

Perhaps I could imply those things with shading when I color it. I'm not seeing lip biting, but more lip pursing and I wanted to draw his feet (my favorite things about hobbits apart from where they live). Maybe by making the surrounding area darker I can draw attention to his face without sacrificing the feet.

[AlanTheRobot]

It's been a while. I hadn't gotten around to uploading this yet even though I did them a while ago. I settled for the second one in the end. I'm already in the process of painting it (with a mix of watercolors and watercolor pencils). I'll take more photos soon.