3D Artist vs Concept Artist

[eru]

Hey there guys

A general discussion
3D vs 2D concept artist or both
Sorry for me generalizing things but I think this is a very good topic to see the differences in peoples views.
Its not about which is better but tell me:

Why do you like 3D or concept art or both ?
What are the differences to you ?
Is 3D more Technical and concept artist more artistic?
Do they both get equal pay in salary?
Do you have to draw for 3D, does it help?

These are example questions, I like to ask or other people please input your thoughts and ask questions too.
I saw a thread in polycount about why do 3D artist do more work and not get paid as much as a concept artist?
The thread was close but I decide to answer this in hear.

I believe a concept artist gets equal pay with a 3D artist but I know that in the game industry or film industry there is only
1 or 2 concept artists, maybe a few designers but the concept artist skillsets require alot of fundamental traditional drawing skills, and need to study alot of architect, science, biology,anatomy, figure drawing, knowing about the world, so I believe these artist work a lot too. 3D is very technical but you can learn these skills and trained at a school.

Thanks everyone, Now discuss, wrong or rights , critique!

[NoSeRider]

Two things I've been told by 'professional' concept artists....that I paid good money for to hear:

1) Many of the up and coming Film Directors want storyboards in 3D

2) Those that only learn 3D cannot draw and make poor 3D objects.

I paid money for that advise at classes, I expect it to be true...but then again, I know somebody will disagree.

[Dusty]

2) Those that only learn 3D cannot draw and make poor 3D objects.

I don't agree with that at all.
I know plenty of professional 3D artists that are PHENOMENAL 3D game artists, but completely suck at their 2D skills.
Granted, proper 2D skills can only enhance your 3D skills, but this sentence is not even remotely true.

I would say, as with all things related to art, to learn the basics first though. All the basics are going to let you tackle any medium whether it be drawing, painting, 3D modelling, scuplting or anything else.

3D is very technical but you can learn these skills and trained at a school.

You can also learn them yourself if you have the proper 3D software at home.
I did.

[eru]

Yeah storyboards in 3D animatics. Which I strongly believe a 2D artist who does 3D will probably do good. See im studying 3D animation and I havent got much 2D experience, and I am starting to enjoy 2D more because I can see that 3D side of things arn't cutting it for me. I love to create new designs and I didnt realize 3D you have to stick with one design then having to model it, texture it, rig it and composite it into a tshot. I think he 3D side takes way too long and having no chance to keep designing and trying new things where I believe I enjoy concept designing.

[Dusty]

As I said, you will only benefit from learning 2D as well. It should be something you are learning before doing 3D in a perfect scenario or in tandem in the most likely scenario. Not that you can't succeed in ONLY learning 3D, but the more well-rounded you are as an artist will increase your chances of getting hired.

You'd be surprised how fickle places can be sometimes.
We had 2 people, both were about the same skill, and one knew Max and the other knew Maya. We happened to have Max, so the Max-user got the job. It's just the way it goes sometimes. You can not predict this stuff.

So the more you know will always help your chances.

[Arshes Nei]

2) Those that only learn 3D cannot draw and make poor 3D objects.

I don't think it's drawing that matters as much as sculpting...

[eru]

As I said, you will only benefit from learning 2D as well. It should be something you are learning before doing 3D in a perfect scenario or in tandem in the most likely scenario. Not that you can't succeed in ONLY learning 3D, but the more well-rounded you are as an artist will increase your chances of getting hired.

You'd be surprised how fickle places can be sometimes.
We had 2 people, both were about the same skill, and one knew Max and the other knew Maya. We happened to have Max, so the Max-user got the job. It's just the way it goes sometimes. You can not predict this stuff.

So the more you know will always help your chances.

Thank you...

Hi im from New Zealand
I've been learning to do some concept art on my own or digital paintings, is there a place I could do an internship or learn on the job sort of thing but for free. Money = Good concept artist But for me something to develope and experience. I want to test myself if I can actually do it and I ll have to get a sketchbook thing on here and a portfolio going.
New zealand is such a small country and I only know studying this area is in Singapore at Fengzhu or TAD or Concept art Academy. TAD has more varities I can learn from.

[Baron Flame]

Here’s a little background info about me before I start to give my opinions on the matter. I was/am/will forever be a guy who is madly in love with every aspect of games. Initially I was in sketching but I was always limited to copying stuff out of comics or random still images but later I got out of high school, I went towards 3D simply because there wasn’t a proper art college/school around me and I wanted to get into the gaming industry any way I could.

Why do you like 3D or concept art or both ?

I love both of them and to be honest I consider them to be two sides of a coin. I guess it’s just a matter of personal opinion when I say that I love concept art more. I’ve always been fascinated by what can be achieved by 3D, things done on a massive level, photo-realistic rendering, the way it puts you right in the middle of things but(and here is where my personal opinion kicks in) concept art has a way of drawing people to it(almost siren like). Concept art gives you a bit more imaginative freedom(kind of).

Is 3D more Technical and concept artist more artistic?

To a certain extent yes but digital sculpting is blurring the lines between that. Being in 3D does means learning a lot of technical stuff but if there’s anything that can be learnt from all of the Max vs Maya vs >insert software name< threads out there is that it’s the basic skill set that is important as it can be transferred to any 3D application that you may be using. I think it’s the same thing as what is software is better for artists, sketchbook or PS. So after all that blabbering my answer would be, kind of but it’s not entirely true.

Do they both get equal pay in salary?

Check the image I’ve attached with this post.

Do you have to draw for 3D, does it help?

Is it necessary? No it’s not mandatory. Does it help? More than most people give it credit for. It’s a widely accepted (and true) fact that knowing how to draw makes you a better 3D modeller. Sketching as such is nonrestrictive. If I am coming up with something in 3D, it could take me a while to figure out something because of the technical restriction of the software. Plus if it’s an original concept of yours, having it on paper would provide you with references.

the concept artist skillsets require alot of fundamental traditional drawing skills, and need to study alot of architect, science, biology,anatomy, figure drawing, knowing about the world

Not exclusively though. 3D modellers and sculptors do study human anatomy(rather comprehensively sometimes), some more than others(Google Ryan kingslien).

3D is very technical but you can learn these skills and trained at a school.

The same as there are art colleges/universities for traditional disciplines. Most of my classmates at this “3D” institute learnt how to create stuff in 3D, but most of them still have no idea on how to work on the kind of things they haven’t been spoon fed at school.

Again these are just my opinions on the matter; I’d be glad if anyone could correct me and point me out where I am wrong.

[QueenGwenevere]

Those gender stats at the bottom are freaking depressing...

[Baron Flame]

Those gender stats at the bottom are freaking depressing...

Off topic but yes I agree.

[Meloncov]

Those gender stats at the bottom are freaking depressing...

The income gap, I hope, is largely the produce of females in the game industry being, on average, younger.

[eru]

Thanks guys.

[dpaint]

The income gap, I hope, is largely the produce of females in the game industry being, on average, younger.

Unfortunately no, it is a product of misanthropic males paying them less for the same job.

[Qitsune]

Unfortunately no, it is a product of misanthropic males paying them less for the same job.

And women being seen as strident hysterics if they ask for more or try to complain.

[Dusty]

Unfortunately no, it is a product of misanthropic males paying them less for the same job.

Yeah I remember an ex-coworker telling me she started in the game industry at 30k.
I started at 42k for the same basic job.....TWELVE YEARS AGO.

brutal.

[dpaint]

Yeah I remember an ex-coworker telling me she started in the game industry at 30k.
I started at 42k for the same basic job.....TWELVE YEARS AGO.

brutal.

And I started at 50k 22 years ago, I'm seeing a trend.

[Meloncov]

Unfortunately no, it is a product of misanthropic males paying them less for the same job.

If so, that would mean that managers at game companies are dramatically more sexist than the population as a whole. On average, women make seventy eight cents to the dollar, but if you compare men and women working in similar positions with the same amount of experience, that rises to 91 cents per dollar, as women tend to work in lower paying fields (this is probably also a form of sexism, but a lot more subtle that misanthropic managers) and because, due to maternity leave, women tend to have less working experience. As such, nation wide, you have a nine cent wage gap that seems to be the result of the sort of direct sexism you're talking about (though there could be other factors at work as well; for example, women might be socially conditioned to be less assertive about asking for raises). I'm sure that wage gap exists within the games industry, but I really doubt it's four times as large as the national average.

[Randis]

1) a while ago i did read a study on similar surveys,
I don't say that the results are all wrong but males tend to exaggerated their salaries in surveys a
bit while females tend to be more honest about their income.

Also, as you see the artistic field in the game industry is dominated my males, getting into game development seem to appeal to males more.
Having a LOT more male artists, statistically you will see that the majority of the talent/ top earners are males and this reflects on the average salaries in comparison.

To be more correct one also should not put the whole industry into a singe shoe.

Studios that focus on core gamers are likely to employ male artists for leading positions as many of the games are focusing on male gamers.
I do not say that all games are made for males but a large portion focuses on males, this is a fact. (war games, hard core games, shooters, sport games, racing games, games with gore, and so on)

If you look at the casual sector you will see a difference, males are dominating but females are usualy very welcome because the studios want to appeal to both male and female gamers.

And now comes the important part

Comparing the casual game industry with the core game industry you will notice that the casual game studios mostly consist of smaller studios and most of the titles have much cheaper
production budgets, egro the salaries in those studios are lower than in companies who produce large game titles.




There are great female concept artists and 3D artists, but not many and it is not because girls cant paint, they just don't go into game development.
Instead you will see more female artists working in print media, Photography, web design, graphic design, architectural design, fashion design, book covers, fine arts, comics and so on.

Its is buyers market, if there is a lot of demand from female games then studios will hire more female talent to cover the demand but if you make a new Doom or god of wars you will have a hard time
finding female concept artists in US and west who would fit the position.

In Japan is a huge demand for girl comics and so there are many female comic artists.

If one would compare the average salaries in a industry that mainly focuses on products for female consumers, we might get different results.
The fashion design industry for example is also not exactly dominated by straight males.
Compare the average salaries of male and female models, you will see a huge difference.

I am not saying that sexism does not exist, sadly it does but game dev industry is new, modern and likely to accept people for their skill,
regardless of their sex, looks or sexual orientation. This gender issue is more worse in other industries.

I am not defending anyone and i am aware of the issue, i am merely adding more details.



Ayami Kojima is one of my fav artists in the game field and she is a woman.

[Baron Flame]

T.T
My post did send this into a whole another dimension, didn't it?
>insert 'what have I done' moment<

Edit: Since this topic's been pushed that way anyway, I thought that I share this.

http://gim.acanaday.com/episodes/gam...mentor_019.mp3

[JeffX99]

Also, as you see the artistic field in the game industry is dominated my males, getting into game development seem to appeal to males more.
Having a LOT more male artists, statistically you will see that the majority of the talent/ top earners are males and this reflects on the average salaries in comparison.

To be more correct one also should not put the whole industry into a singe shoe.

Studios that focus on core gamers are likely to employ male artists for leading positions as many of the games are focusing on male gamers.
I do not say that all games are made for males but a large portion focuses on males, this is a fact. (war games, hard core games, shooters, sport games, racing games, games with gore, and so on)

If you look at the casual sector you will see a difference, males are dominating but females are usualy very welcome because the studios want to appeal to both male and female gamers.

Good points Randis. And I'll just a bit...Everywhere I've worked the HR Dept. was female...also marketing was maybe 50-50...writing...50-50, graphic design mostly female, etc. At Zynga, which focuses on the casual female market it is also about 50-50 I would say, in actual development. Not drawing any conclusions...just pointing that out.

And yeah, when I started 22 years ago at EA it was for about 60K...and you don't even want to know the stock options! But again that goes back to supply and demand - back then if you were a halfway decent artist and could work on one of them new computer things, well you were in demand.

[Velocity Kendall]

Car design studios still pay decent money, maybe $40k for a noob up to $200k for director (and are almost 100% male, except interior trim, which is female dominated.)

[NoSeRider]

Why would you wanna work with just 20 to 30 something year old guys with testosterone bleeding out of their ears like a bull elephant?......unless you're gay, which is a word that has more meaning then 'aloha' nowadays.

[Velocity Kendall]

hence, i quit. i gave up the cocaine and sports cars and nice flats and expensive thai food for the spiritual purity and freedom and extreme poverty of freelancing, and never (sob) looked back.

[dpaint]

Car design studios still pay decent money, maybe $40k for a noob up to $200k for director (and are almost 100% male, except interior trim, which is female dominated.)

I would have never guessed that trim would be associated with females

[Velocity Kendall]

Yep no idea why, but colour and trim is always girls.

[bill618]

Yeah I remember an ex-coworker telling me she started in the game industry at 30k.
I started at 42k for the same basic job.....TWELVE YEARS AGO.

brutal.

Women, today, are still making less than 80¢ to a man’s dollar, in the US.