Eviscerate Me

[zaccrockett]

Howdy folks,
I know this site is for the hardcore professionals and people who are masters in the craft. Despite that, I post here anyway, often to silence. I've chalked that to having mediocre art and, along with a few humbling critiques elsewhere, I find myself with nowhere to go but up. Therefore, I ask for any comments that can help me improve, become a professional, or not feel downright bad about my art. It can only help me and would be most appreciated. I've posted below some samples of my works but, to get a more extensive view of how I draw, you can also go to my sketchbook or comics here (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...it-Strangeness ) or here (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...arhead-Issue-5). Thank you kindly for your time.

[flackattack]

Nice variety of stuff! Your linework is really great and confident. My only real critique is that i'd like to see some color on these.

[Hexokinase]

You need to brush up on your perspective. The ground plane does not remain consistent in many of these.

[Suncut]

I also enjoy your use of line and balance of blacks in these. However you got some major anatomy problems, you can't even keep the proportions consistent in many of the figures, the first girl has some serious leg issues - I can't make sense where her knees are, one guy has major dwarf arms etc. The naked girl really clearly illustrates that you just generally have no clue how the rib cage and pelvis relate to one another and the lower part of her body seems two dimensional. I'd say study constructive anatomy, even getting a hang of the basic masses and landmarks of the body should be a major help to your drawing.

[Giacomo]

Every figure you draw shows a solid sense of character, which is great and incredibly important. Otherwise, it's hard to generalize across the six pieces you posted--they all have various strong and weak points. You might do better to post one image at a time if you're looking for specific feedback.

[zaccrockett]

Nice variety of stuff! Your linework is really great and confident. My only real critique is that i'd like to see some color on these.

Thanks! I think I have a distinct style that is fairly expressive when it comes to faces. I also love storytelling and conveying a sense of character. However, my works are fairly monochrome and I could use some proficiency with color. I appreciate the comment.

You need to brush up on your perspective. The ground plane does not remain consistent in many of these.

Thanks! I'll work on my perspective.

I also enjoy your use of line and balance of blacks in these. However you got some major anatomy problems, you can't even keep the proportions consistent in many of the figures, the first girl has some serious leg issues - I can't make sense where her knees are, one guy has major dwarf arms etc. The naked girl really clearly illustrates that you just generally have no clue how the rib cage and pelvis relate to one another and the lower part of her body seems two dimensional. I'd say study constructive anatomy, even getting a hang of the basic masses and landmarks of the body should be a major help to your drawing.

Thanks for the critique! I'll focus on those areas. To be perfectly honest, I find anatomy daunting. There are areas where, as you've noted, I have serious flaws and legs are one of them, as well as placement of the chest and pelvis areas. Similarly, I struggle with foreshortened limbs. I'm going to try a more rigorous approach to anatomy but I find my brain struggling with it. I'm not sure it should be this hard.

Every figure you draw shows a solid sense of character, which is great and incredibly important. Otherwise, it's hard to generalize across the six pieces you posted--they all have various strong and weak points. You might do better to post one image at a time if you're looking for specific feedback.

Thanks! I love telling stories, so I'm glad the characters come through so strongly. I've duly noted your comment and will, from now forward, post the images in a singular fashion.

Here's a sample of my comic work. I'd love to know what people think.

[Giacomo]

The drawing on your comic is totally pro-level. No worries there, although that cowboy's holding his bottle at a pretty Cubistic angle.

Regarding the comic: The sketch you posted earlier of the girl on the runway in a bikini and crash helmet is infinitely more engaging than that comic page, because looking at it, I instantly want to know why Ms. Bikini/Helmet is in that situation and how she got there. I basically made the following comment about "Miss Doomsday" a year or two ago, and I'll make it again: Your use of ultra-stereotyped characters really puts me off wanting to actually read the story (even, in this case, after seeing only one page...I feel like I've seen "Introspective Shy Girl" and "Gregarious Bubbly Friend Who Tries To Draw Introspective Shy Girl Out Of Her Shell" about a zillion times already in comics, TV, and movies.) There's a lot to be said for being able to indicate those "types" with as much ease as you do, but if you want my advice, I'd say: "Show your characters doing stuff on every page that's unique and interesting, in situations that are unique and interesting."

Once again, just my two a**hole cents.

[arenhaus]

Good technique, good expressiveness, good sense of character, good composition (mostly). Small linework lapses here and there, with "tired" and "hairy" lines, but mostly the linework is good.

To get further, I'd recommend to focus on solidity of drawing. Your finishing technique is ahead of your construction skill; that's not an uncommon thing, actually. So you should spend a little more time building the form before you finish. Anatomy and perspective studies would do you good; focus on making a solid drawing in pencil without shading and without inking.

Another thing that could be improved is the value composition. Your foregrounds and backgrounds tend to get the same level of detail, which makes them run together and impact the clarity of the drawing. Practice ways to make background recede and foreground stand out; in comics that's even more important than in single images. Use lighter line, shading, level of detail, etc. to separate the fore from the back.

Use bolder lighting. You are very shy of making clear falling shadows, using black, using contrast or directional light. Look at what Mignola does; his detail level is much less intricate than yours, but his use of line with solid black make his work stand out much more than yours. If you can make a panel work with just white, black, and gray in it - with no line - then it will work with more shading and more line too.

[Ravatta]

One thing i noticed especially in the comic page you posted is that the line weight is a bit inconsistent, and this makes the page somewhat flat and uneven. This is especially noticeable in the first panel, where the lines of the streetlight in the background are almost as thick as those detailing her facial features. Also, since the tree on her right is sort of outlined in white, whereas she's not, against the black background it stands out more than she does. This is the kind of think that one should be careful of when working on a comic. What i'm trying to say is that without differentiating the thickness of the lines when you're inking, especially in busy pages like the one you posted, the characters tend to not stand out and become less visible among the crowd, since there's nothing in the inking bringing them to focus.

[zaccrockett]

The drawing on your comic is totally pro-level. No worries there, although that cowboy's holding his bottle at a pretty Cubistic angle.

Regarding the comic: The sketch you posted earlier of the girl on the runway in a bikini and crash helmet is infinitely more engaging than that comic page, because looking at it, I instantly want to know why Ms. Bikini/Helmet is in that situation and how she got there. I basically made the following comment about "Miss Doomsday" a year or two ago, and I'll make it again: Your use of ultra-stereotyped characters really puts me off wanting to actually read the story (even, in this case, after seeing only one page...I feel like I've seen "Introspective Shy Girl" and "Gregarious Bubbly Friend Who Tries To Draw Introspective Shy Girl Out Of Her Shell" about a zillion times already in comics, TV, and movies.) There's a lot to be said for being able to indicate those "types" with as much ease as you do, but if you want my advice, I'd say: "Show your characters doing stuff on every page that's unique and interesting, in situations that are unique and interesting."

Once again, just my two a**hole cents.

I appreciate your honest opinion (and thanks with the compliments regarding the comic page). I've actually kept your comment in mind, believe it or not, for quite some time now. I've been working on a story where the character is more relatable and interesting. I think that was one of the problems with "Miss Doomsday". The helmet girl is part of a story that's sort of in the pre-production stage. I'm working on hammering out the story but, in the meantime, I've been working on the design as seen above. As with many of my stories, it's a bit of a strange one but uses a lot of the humor and drama I like to mix into my stories. It's about a girl who's immortal but it turns out that it's not what it's cracked up to be.

Good technique, good expressiveness, good sense of character, good composition (mostly). Small linework lapses here and there, with "tired" and "hairy" lines, but mostly the linework is good.

To get further, I'd recommend to focus on solidity of drawing. Your finishing technique is ahead of your construction skill; that's not an uncommon thing, actually. So you should spend a little more time building the form before you finish. Anatomy and perspective studies would do you good; focus on making a solid drawing in pencil without shading and without inking.

Another thing that could be improved is the value composition. Your foregrounds and backgrounds tend to get the same level of detail, which makes them run together and impact the clarity of the drawing. Practice ways to make background recede and foreground stand out; in comics that's even more important than in single images. Use lighter line, shading, level of detail, etc. to separate the fore from the back.

Use bolder lighting. You are very shy of making clear falling shadows, using black, using contrast or directional light. Look at what Mignola does; his detail level is much less intricate than yours, but his use of line with solid black make his work stand out much more than yours. If you can make a panel work with just white, black, and gray in it - with no line - then it will work with more shading and more line too.

Thank you so much for the critique. I do believe you hit the nail right on the head. My approach with the background, thus far, has been to emphasize detail over depth, which is not how the world works. As you say, depth is created by varying linework, lighting, and detail. This is the approach I will do from now on.

I also have a habit of not providing enough emphasis on the building stage of the drawings and focus more on the finished product. It's a bad habit of mine and one I'm going to work on fixing. Your comment has been very enlightening to me.

One thing i noticed especially in the comic page you posted is that the line weight is a bit inconsistent, and this makes the page somewhat flat and uneven. This is especially noticeable in the first panel, where the lines of the streetlight in the background are almost as thick as those detailing her facial features. Also, since the tree on her right is sort of outlined in white, whereas she's not, against the black background it stands out more than she does. This is the kind of think that one should be careful of when working on a comic. What i'm trying to say is that without differentiating the thickness of the lines when you're inking, especially in busy pages like the one you posted, the characters tend to not stand out and become less visible among the crowd, since there's nothing in the inking bringing them to focus.

Those are very solid points. More emphasis on what's important and less emphasis on detail. I appreciate the comment.

Here's a fun little sketch I did. My two loves are cartooning and drawing the female sex. It's my weak spot.

[zaccrockett]

I'm working on producing backgrounds with more depth than previously. Here's an example in a commission I'm working on:

[zaccrockett]

Another sketch from the series:

[zaccrockett]

I've been working on understanding rib cages and here's another attempt. I'm still working on perfecting it, along with arms, but any thoughts would be welcome.

[Giacomo]

I've been working on understanding rib cages and here's another attempt. I'm still working on perfecting it, along with arms, but any thoughts would be welcome.

Not bad as always, but it feels a bit flat. I assume you're working from a reference photo here--you'd do well to get a bit more analytical about the contours and shading (i.e., slow waay down and observe things more carefully.)

[TinyBird]

I'm still working on perfecting it, along with arms,

Hopefully you'll extend this to boobs too, since especially in this one (and you have the same going on in other pics too, though in lesser extent) the shading makes the breasts look like two perfect half-spheres pasted on to the skin.
Also as a note your work gives me these Marvel Vampire Tales old-school feels, so you might be interested on checking out some of the artists, like Esteban Maroto and Sonny Trinidad and their lady work.

[zaccrockett]

Not bad as always, but it feels a bit flat. I assume you're working from a reference photo here--you'd do well to get a bit more analytical about the contours and shading (i.e., slow waay down and observe things more carefully.)

Thanks for the comment, Giacomo! This image came from my imagination with no references used. I do have a tendency to rush through some drawings, it's true. Drawing sometimes makes me very nervous and I get eager to complete a drawing. It's another one of those bad drawing habits I need to nail down.

Would you say the shading is too light or maybe it's all the same tone?

Hopefully you'll extend this to boobs too, since especially in this one (and you have the same going on in other pics too, though in lesser extent) the shading makes the breasts look like two perfect half-spheres pasted on to the skin.
Also as a note your work gives me these Marvel Vampire Tales old-school feels, so you might be interested on checking out some of the artists, like Esteban Maroto and Sonny Trinidad and their lady work.

Definitely something I didn't consider. Breasts wrap over the rib cage and are not the same circular shape from every angle. It's something I'll work on. Thanks for the critique! Your comic recommendations fascinates me, too. I'm a fan of comic art from the 60's and 70's and I think it's influenced a lot of my work, particularly John Buschema and John Romita, Sr.

Here's another sketch. Now that I look at it, the face could use a lot more shading, but my main focus was the relationship of the rib cage and the pelvis bones. Hopefully the breasts look alright in this one. I'd love to know anyone's thoughts.

[zaccrockett]

I've been working with some backgrounds and wonder if the following image hits closer in terms of creating a sense of depth and perspective:

[arenhaus]

Nope, not "there" yet.

The distribution of light and dark in your pictures should 1) guide the eye to important bits while letting it gloss over the supporting ones and 2) preferably, be simple. If you can use it to separate background from foreground, it'd be even better.

In this whimsical hunter-and-dog cartoon, the characterization is good, the line is okay, the volume is okay, the dynamics could be enhanced but not completely bad; but there is no value work and no separation of the action from the scenery, and that kills the picture. You have black in the background, you have black in the foreground. You have busy lines in the background, but mostly clean cartoon line in the characters - but the characters are just the right size and right level of detail that their detailing blends with the texture in the background. End result - you have to work to discern the action, it does not jump at you.

I suggest you work for a while in a very minimalistic style, as if you were on a brushstroke budget. Add only enough detail to get to the point across. If it does not enhance getting the point across, it does not belong in the picture.

Experiment with different ways of guiding the eye. Apart from lines of action in the composition, these are mostly working with contrasts. Dark / light, heavy line / thin line, brush / pen, line / dot, solid / textured, coarse / fine, and so on. Do some exercises using these contrasts to make the main subject stand out.

[Giacomo]

This image came from my imagination with no references used. I do have a tendency to rush through some drawings, it's true. Drawing sometimes makes me very nervous and I get eager to complete a drawing. It's another one of those bad drawing habits I need to nail down.

And therein, in my opinion, lies the problem. You have a pretty amazing ability to draw from your head, but at this point you seem to be putting down stuff you've seen before--mostly in comics--without really understanding how the forms work. (The same is true for your writing.) If you want to move forward, I'd suggest you spend some serious time working from nature--in the form of live models, still lifes and photos--and reading something (i.e., books) that isn't comics or TV.

Just my two cents.

[Candra H]

I just wanted to add a suggestion to the excellent crits already given. I'd like to see you also focus on hands and feet, but hands in particular, because yours look very lumpy and awkward.

[zaccrockett]

Nope, not "there" yet.

The distribution of light and dark in your pictures should 1) guide the eye to important bits while letting it gloss over the supporting ones and 2) preferably, be simple. If you can use it to separate background from foreground, it'd be even better.

In this whimsical hunter-and-dog cartoon, the characterization is good, the line is okay, the volume is okay, the dynamics could be enhanced but not completely bad; but there is no value work and no separation of the action from the scenery, and that kills the picture. You have black in the background, you have black in the foreground. You have busy lines in the background, but mostly clean cartoon line in the characters - but the characters are just the right size and right level of detail that their detailing blends with the texture in the background. End result - you have to work to discern the action, it does not jump at you.

I suggest you work for a while in a very minimalistic style, as if you were on a brushstroke budget. Add only enough detail to get to the point across. If it does not enhance getting the point across, it does not belong in the picture.

Experiment with different ways of guiding the eye. Apart from lines of action in the composition, these are mostly working with contrasts. Dark / light, heavy line / thin line, brush / pen, line / dot, solid / textured, coarse / fine, and so on. Do some exercises using these contrasts to make the main subject stand out.

These are brilliant suggestions. I can see exactly what the problem is and the multiple solutions to it. I'll apply these to my illustrations and it is my hope that I can begin nailing them sooner than later.

Thank you so much. This comment was a ton of help.

And therein, in my opinion, lies the problem. You have a pretty amazing ability to draw from your head, but at this point you seem to be putting down stuff you've seen before--mostly in comics--without really understanding how the forms work. (The same is true for your writing.) If you want to move forward, I'd suggest you spend some serious time working from nature--in the form of live models, still lifes and photos--and reading something (i.e., books) that isn't comics or TV.

Just my two cents.

I see what you're saying. They're good points. It's my hope to have my works be distinct creatures and not copycat works of others.

I just wanted to add a suggestion to the excellent crits already given. I'd like to see you also focus on hands and feet, but hands in particular, because yours look very lumpy and awkward.

Feet, legs, and hands are my eternal bane.

I'll definitely work on them.

[zaccrockett]

Hi Folks,
First, thanks for all the great feedback. It's been pushing me forward and helping me to tackle problems I've had in my art for God knows how long. While I don't feel I've mastered anything, I am working harder than ever to make my art better and attain that professional sheen. Here's my latest offering. I'm playing around with depth and emphasis in this image, with the eye being drawn to the girl in the center with little detail in the background. Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated.

[Giacomo]

That looks good...the hierarchical scaling of the three figures and the background does quite a bit to give the piece some depth. And, as always, I get a good sense of the characters' basic personalities. The only tweak I'd make is to draw the rim of her eyeglass frame completely...you've dropped it out where it's supposed to go behind her nose, but in my opinion it doesn't really read.

I guess my question is: where do you want to go with this? Your work already has that "professional sheen" you're looking for...who do you want to reach with this stuff? What are you trying to say?

[zaccrockett]

Hi Giacomo,
Thanks for the critique. I'll go back and define the eye rims of the glasses more.

As for my reach, this is part of a comic mini-series I'm working on called "The End of Summer". It's going more for the indy set but it's a bit of a dark story with some oddball and surrealistic touches. I guess you can say it's like a lot of my stories. It's got a bit of action/adventure and horror elements as well. I'm trying to convey in the picture above that Crystal Summer, the girl in the center, is a strong-willed character, very confident, but she's still way in over her head with regards to the events around her.

[Giacomo]

As for my reach, this is part of a comic mini-series I'm working on called "The End of Summer". It's going more for the indy set but it's a bit of a dark story with some oddball and surrealistic touches. I guess you can say it's like a lot of my stories. It's got a bit of action/adventure and horror elements as well. I'm trying to convey in the picture above that Crystal Summer, the girl in the center, is a strong-willed character, very confident, but she's still way in over her head with regards to the events around her.

Yeah, she's got the same thousand-yard stare that every YA heroine seems to have these days.

As always, just my two cents: your description of the comic consists entirely of overused marketing-jargon terms ("indy," "dark story," "action/adventure and horror elements") and does not get me very excited to read it. You might want to ask yourself, "how is this comic different from any other comic?" and proceed accordingly, both in writing the thing and describing it.

[zaccrockett]

I was going for a more general description here, though I do have a more specific description. I've got the general story laid out in my mind and right now I'm hammering out the details. It is a strange story, like most of my comics. Some of my stories, like "Opey the Warhead", have given me a devil of a time to describe to publishers because I have so many weird elements in them. The best I can do for Opey is describe it as the story of a living nuclear warhead attending an elementary school in the post-apocalypse. It's a hard sale to publishers because that doesn't quite fit into a marketable frame.

I often write my stories like that but "Miss Doomsday" and this one does have something that publishers can latch onto quicker. "Miss Doomsday" is pretty much a dead story to me, though. I had the entire first issue scripted out but I read the critiques of it and felt I couldn't salvage it. A friend of mine has written a new version of it and tried his take on it and I've been previewing pages of it here. Of my own written and drawn works, only "Opey"and "The End of Summer" interest me now. I tend to write what interests me and I have unusual interests and ideas. Again, it's a pain in the unmentionables when selling them to publishers but I don't feel cheap when I finish the comic.

[Giacomo]

Some of my stories, like "Opey the Warhead", have given me a devil of a time to describe to publishers because I have so many weird elements in them. It's a hard sale to publishers because that doesn't quite fit into a marketable frame.

I actually did read "Opey The Warhead" as you posted pages in the "Finally Finished" forum. Again, it's just my opinion, but the "weird elements" to which you refer didn't really make much sense in the context of the story. At bottom, "Opey" is a fairly conventional story of an alienated outsider kid who just happens to be an anthropomorphic nuclear bomb...I remember reading well into it (I admit I didn't finish all of it) waiting for the "bomb" aspect to have any bearing on the story at all, and it never did--it just seemed arbitrarily thrown in for the sake of bizarreness. It's true that if I was a publisher I'd probably decline "Opey," but not because of the "weird elements."

[zaccrockett]

I actually did read "Opey The Warhead" as you posted pages in the "Finally Finished" forum. Again, it's just my opinion, but the "weird elements" to which you refer didn't really make much sense in the context of the story. At bottom, "Opey" is a fairly conventional story of an alienated outsider kid who just happens to be an anthropomorphic nuclear bomb...I remember reading well into it (I admit I didn't finish all of it) waiting for the "bomb" aspect to have any bearing on the story at all, and it never did--it just seemed arbitrarily thrown in for the sake of bizarreness. It's true that if I was a publisher I'd probably decline "Opey," but not because of the "weird elements."

I appreciate your honesty. The bomb elements did have a purpose in the story. I have it all planned out from beginning to end. I've found some people like it (on several occasions, I've had people tell me they found it addictive and read it in one sitting or they found it touching), others don't (story is too strange, unrelatible, or they don't like the art or writing). Something I like about my stories is they stand on their own two feet without tapping into some sub-genre, fad, or sub-group for support. They are what they are, good or bad. That doesn't mean I don't try to improve or listen to people's suggestions or critiques but I try not to do a story just for popularity. I do it for my own self-respect and, hopefully, for people who might enjoy the story. I wouldn't complain about getting critical acclaim, though. I guess I'm always in search of immortality through my stories. I'm not sure that's ever going to happen but I keep trying, despite myself.

[Giacomo]

Something I like about my stories is they stand on their own two feet without tapping into some sub-genre, fad, or sub-group for support.

Um...for better or worse, I'd say both "Opey" and "Miss Doomsday" fall squarely into the well-established sub-genre of "'Black Hole'-influenced emo indie comics." Just because one of your characters has a bomb for a head doesn't mean your plot, themes, and characters aren't still fairly boilerplate.

[Giacomo]

double post deleted, again...why is it doing this?