Environment Design for Games from CgWorkshops- Is it worth the 600$?

[Pavel Sokov]

http://workshops.cgsociety.org/courseinfo.php?id=322

Hello! I have never taken an online art class before and am fairly skeptical. I am very interested in the topic of this class, but a little unsure as I feel not a whole lot of info was provided about the workshop, especially for it costing 600$, the price of for example the best video card from new egg.

I can afford it, but it is a lavish spending. It starts soon so I assume I have to enroll asap, so could anyone please offer me advice. Maybe you took another Cg workshop? Maybe you have another site where I can buy more classes for the 600$?

Anything helps, but I must say I need the advice quick. Ca never lets me down though!

Cheers!

[-Tragedy-]

I too am considering to apply for this, and like you I do question what I actually get for my $600.

This relates to any CGWorkshops.

Also, I hear this is pretty good http://www.cgmwmasterclasses.com/env...ainment-1.html

Thanks.

[Pavel Sokov]

I also found http://www.digitaltutors.com , but the thing with it is that it looks like the tutorials are all based around the software itself, ie: Maya, Zbrush,etc. I was looking for more of a fundamentals class that has less to do with the tools, but more with the process and techniques, which is why I was interested in the Cg workshop class.

But it is pretty hefty for 600$. I would really appreciate some feedback on that or any cg workshop course.

The class you linked looks very similar but already started and also 600$. Hmmm. I signed up for the waiting list. I don't really know which is better, I suppose we would have to pick by how much we like the proff's artwork. In which case your proff might be slightly better.

[-Tragedy-]

I also found http://www.digitaltutors.com , but the thing with it is that it looks like the tutorials are all based around the software itself, ie: Maya, Zbrush,etc. I was looking for more of a fundamentals class that has less to do with the tools, but more with the process and techniques, which is why I was interested in the Cg workshop class.

But it is pretty hefty for 600$. I would really appreciate some feedback on that or any cg workshop course.

The class you linked looks very similar but already started and also 600$. Hmmm. I signed up for the waiting list. I don't really know which is better, I suppose we would have to pick by how much we like the proff's artwork. In which case your proff might be slightly better.

Digitaltutors are great! My uni has a subscription, so we can use it all the time.
But yes, it's more about learning the software and the techniques of the software, not so much techniques of the art.

[-Tragedy-]

I also found http://www.digitaltutors.com , but the thing with it is that it looks like the tutorials are all based around the software itself, ie: Maya, Zbrush,etc. I was looking for more of a fundamentals class that has less to do with the tools, but more with the process and techniques, which is why I was interested in the Cg workshop class.

But it is pretty hefty for 600$. I would really appreciate some feedback on that or any cg workshop course.

The class you linked looks very similar but already started and also 600$. Hmmm. I signed up for the waiting list. I don't really know which is better, I suppose we would have to pick by how much we like the proff's artwork. In which case your proff might be slightly better.

Digitaltutors are great! My uni has a subscription, so we can use it all the time.
But yes, it's more about learning the software and the techniques of the software, not so much techniques of the art.

[Shybird]

Wow that is confusing. I don't know the original one you linked, but I've taken one from the CGMA site Ghost mentioned. There are some reviews on the CGMA environment classes here
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...A-Master-Class

Not sure if you had your heart set on the one you first mentioned.

Just be aware that the CGMA semester just started two weeks ago, so you'll have to wait until 2013 if you want to participate in the actual classes.

[Pavel Sokov]

Thanks shybird! So judging by the thread you posted, I have come to agree with one of the posters:

If you spend 600$ on gnomon DVDs you will get around 24 hours of video, no feedback. If you spend 600$ on one of these classes you get 8. Additionally to that point I want to note that the 24 hours may be split up between 10-12 different topics, while your 8 hours with the master classes or cg workshop is covering only one topic. The idea is that the feedback is what makes it worth it, but those posts seem to stress the important of the proff you choose. Apparently one proff named Paul just tries to praise your work and his critiques are not much. I suppose if you happen to choose a great proff, the experience may be good.

But is that worth it? Can't I just apply the teachings from pre-recorded DVDs to my own work critically? That is hard, I admit, but maybe possible.

It seems best in my analysis to look into gnomon DVDs. I have a lot of the CA ones, and am pretty sure I bought all the ones I am interested in.

EDIT: Although everyone does seem to love James Paick and his environment MasterClass. Hmmm. Maybe worth a shot?

[Shybird]

Hey there are snippets of the classes and other information located here if you want a sample
https://www.youtube.com/user/CGMWORKSHOPS?feature=watch

Also are you aware that you can purchase access to the lectures? For $40 you can get the workshops for three weeks http://www.cgmwonline.com/ The site is kind of confusing, but if you click on checkout you'll get a full list of the ones that they offer.

Good luck whatever you pick

[Dile_]

Hi Pavel.

Are you painting environments already? I only saw very few on your website, and none of them demonstrates that you've put a lot of effort into learning and understanding environments or perspective. Learning to paint environments takes time.. It's very different from painting characters, add design to that and it becomes very abstract and complex, especially if you haven't gotten around the basics/foundations yet. I do not recommend you spend $600 on this, right now. Not because it's a bad course, but because I don't think you will benefit from it as much as you can. Get some(a lot) of practice in first. Thumbnail a lot and make sure you do as much studies on enviros that you are currently doing on characters and make sure you get your perspective down, that will get you a long way and thumbnailing will help you pick out and play with shapes, which is a very important element in design. There is a huge step and also a huge difference between illustrators and designers.. The step towards becoming and thinking like a designer can be taken at any time, but it is a very conscious decision which if you want to be able to do it well, requires that you know your foundations.

[Velocity Kendall]

I think you can learn a great deal watching people work, but theres tonnes of excellent vids on YT, and elsewhere.

the really critical thing is feedback from someone, and a back and forth dialogue from someone with an outside perspective and a vested interest in helping you succeed; feedback, change things, resubmit, until youre producing stuff thats killer. thats what id want for my money.

[Eva K]

the really critical thing is feedback from someone, and a back and forth dialogue from someone with an outside perspective and a vested interest in helping you succeed; feedback, change things, resubmit, until youre producing stuff thats killer. thats what id want for my money.

I'm currently taking the Photoreal Matte Painting course at CGWorkshops and to me it has been worth every penny. The teacher is great, the material is thorough and there's quick and constructive feedback - from fellow students as well.

[Pavel Sokov]

Hey there are snippets of the classes and other information located here if you want a sample
https://www.youtube.com/user/CGMWORKSHOPS?feature=watch

Also are you aware that you can purchase access to the lectures? For $40 you can get the workshops for three weeks http://www.cgmwonline.com/ The site is kind of confusing, but if you click on checkout you'll get a full list of the ones that they offer.

Good luck whatever you pick

I dont understand, for 40$ I can have all the lectures instead of 600$ for 1? I am confused

EDIT: Ok so I figured out that the Workshops are different then masterclasses and are 40$ a pop. Ok not bad, but I can't find an explanation of what a workshop is. Is it a pre-recorded video? How long is it? Is there homework? I just can't find any information on what a workshop actually is and am frustrated. It says there are live sessions of Q and A. So if these workshops are interactive, then why would I want to buy a 600$ master class?

EDIT 2: I found info on the FAQ. The workshops are pre-recorded 2-3 hour streaming videos, not available for download. There are live Q and A sessions only for new classes. All the old classes have recorded Q and A sessions that are viewable on their youtube channel.

Are these videos any good??

Are you painting environments already? I only saw very few on your website, and none of them demonstrates that you've put a lot of effort into learning and understanding environments or perspective. Learning to paint environments takes time.. It's very different from painting characters, add design to that and it becomes very abstract and complex, especially if you haven't gotten around the basics/foundations yet. I do not recommend you spend $600 on this, right now. Not because it's a bad course, but because I don't think you will benefit from it as much as you can. Get some(a lot) of practice in first. Thumbnail a lot and make sure you do as much studies on enviros that you are currently doing on characters and make sure you get your perspective down, that will get you a long way and thumbnailing will help you pick out and play with shapes, which is a very important element in design. There is a huge step and also a huge difference between illustrators and designers.. The step towards becoming and thinking like a designer can be taken at any time, but it is a very conscious decision which if you want to be able to do it well, requires that you know your foundations.

Hey Dile.

I am trying to and it is very challenging. I am much more comfortable with portraiture. But that is exactly why i grew interested in an Environment class, in order to put an end to the feeling of being over matched when trying to paint an environment.

What I am confused about is the following; If we both agree that I am lacking in understanding of environment, and especially perspective, it then follows that I need to figure it out. I have learned everything in painting by myself, but most people would say being taught by a professional is the most efficient way to learn. Since we both agree that I need to learn this stuff, is it not logical that I seek out a course?

If I practice by myself, I will surely get better at them as I do at all things when I apply myself, and at one point my environments will be ok. At that point the class won't do much, no? Logically speaking it seems to me that in a dire situation, there is a lot to learn. When you are ok at something already, there is less you can pick up.

Wouldn't beginners be exposed to more new material as a consequence of this class then more apt students?

By all means, I don't think I am going to buy this class this semester. The reason being is that I have not explored my options closely, and have not exhausted any free or cheaper resources. There are gnomon DVDs to look for that may eliminate the need for a 600$ course. The feedback aspect is very important, but I have CA for that. People are saving my skin over at CC all the time.

So I think it is best to do studies on my own as you suggest, just because they are free, and I can simply take the class next semester. No hurry. There will be one right after January right? Or its once a year?

I would really appreciate it if you elaborated on why a person who's environments are in shambles and his knowledge an empty pit, is not well suited for such a class. I really want to understand the idea behind that so I can avoid taking classes that will do me less good then I expect.

I would think the opposite, that someone that is good already should be throwing money down to simply get some practice and maybe learn a couple of tricks at most.

[Pavel Sokov]

I think you can learn a great deal watching people work, but theres tonnes of excellent vids on YT, and elsewhere.

the really critical thing is feedback from someone, and a back and forth dialogue from someone with an outside perspective and a vested interest in helping you succeed; feedback, change things, resubmit, until youre producing stuff thats killer. thats what id want for my money.

Would the Cg workshop have that sort of feedback? I don't really have anyone who can teach me, this forum being pretty much the closest option.