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Thread: Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 911" / Also 911 Road to Tyranny!!!

  1. #151
    Helium Macaroni's Avatar
    Helium Macaroni is offline aspiring expatriate
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    As I'm looking over the 6+ pages in various replies that I have written in the last few days in preparation to respond to benzo's and other's posts I cannot help but be struck by the utter futility of this particular thread of conversation, and my perpetual involvement in it. I have decided not to post my replies or raise further points because in the grand scope of things ideologues will be ideologues. As this conversation goes on, I can hardly muster then energy needed to reply due to the futility I see and feel.

    I stand by the previous statements I have made and I am glad that those who believe passionately in the truths they hold in their mind, regardless of how I regard their validity, continue to offer their position, whatever side of the political spectrum they may be on. I can easily spend hours upon hours contemplating replies, and pouring through various sources that provide my ideological fuel, in the effort to provide a meaningful and accurate response. However, the time constraints of (currently) work, and (previously) school have imposed strict limitations on my ability to devote time to such lengthy rebuttal, and God knows I love providing lengthy rebuttals.

    A larger factor however is the feeling of division that sits uneasily with me at night, and at times when conversing with those who posses opposing viewpoints. It's a feeling that has done nothing but dash my hopes of any possible commonality between schools of political thought and discourse and has only increased the feelings of said futility. This is the only comment I will loose concerning Bush and current political climate in this nation: We seem to have never been this divided as a nation since the civil war. I among other like minds in this thread stand on one side of the crevasse, and those like benzo, Pencil Soldier and the like are on the other. As time draws on, the abyss between the two general schools of thought seems to be widening by the day. In my opinion, this does not seem to bode well. I relish political discourse and debate from general ideology and practice to the most specific of issues, but as far as I have seen in this nation and this thread as a microcosm of American political affections, there doesn?t appear to be any hope of compromise.

    I'd love to devote time and resources to outline on a point-counterpoint basis where I stand, agree or disagree with various statements made, but I simply have neither the time nor the energy to do so. It's a bit depressing, but I know I will never convert anyone, nor affect the established ideologues, so in essence, what is the point? Neither side will change, neither side will gain ground. Nothing I say will have any bearing. My statements will either preach to the choir, or never satisfy the opponent. I've tried to make my positions clear, and I've offered up my opinions. After reading and replying, I'm pretty tired of it all and pretty certain that any more discussion on my part will do no particular good, nor serve any purpose. I?m just tired of debating. Oddly enough, thoughts pertaining to the subjects raised in this thread, and potential responses comprise a significant portion of my daily thoughts.

    I believe I've shared my thoughts thoroughly enough and in sufficient verboseness to excite any compatriot, and rile any adversary. For now, in lieu of a reality in which neither side truly wishes to understand or sometimes even tolerate the other, I will simply retreat from the conversation.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed, The world in arms is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from an iron cross."

    ...I have a sketchbook?

  2. #152
    troymcoy's Avatar
    troymcoy is offline Registered User Level 5 Gladiator: Myrmillo
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    hey did anyone read about how Bush hijacked the the death of this american soldier/football star? I think his name was Tillman, killed by friendly fire...

  3. #153
    benzo's Avatar
    benzo is offline Retro Guerrilla Level 5 Gladiator: Myrmillo
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    I was looking forward to your reply Helium, but do as you please.

    I have no hard feelings towards anyone on this thread who disagrees with me as long as they are serious, thorough and respectful in their posts, as you have been.

    Obviously we have very different views and opinions about the world and how it should be. I doubt we will ever agree on many issues, as you and I seem to each have strong fundamental beliefs. I enjoy this discussion we are having, but you are right, it is too time consuming (especially with your huge postings). And the worst is when it hangs in your thoughts during the day.

    If I say anything else, it is this: I feel you are too negative about the world. Have more hope and patience.

    Americans have always been able to find a compromise somehow, and hopefully it will continue to be that way in our time. Would it be so terrible to live with Bush for another four years? You will live through it just as I lived through Clinton. And if Kerry is elected I will live through that as well. The compromise is rooted in this tolerance.

    The feeling of division you feel right now can best be resolved and understood through discussions like this one. Even if we don't come to a conclusion in accord, we better understand both sides.

    I didn't want to raise any more points for you to address in this; I have spoken my opinions and stand by them too and we can just leave it at that.

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