guide for people new to CA and how to kill the art community

[keeptime]

I don't know, Metal Mario did pretty well.


I'm so sorry everyone.

[otherscape]

I don't get why more people don't use their real name on CA. Your art is a brand, and you are the face of it. If you want to be successful it certainly is necessary people know who you are and recognize your name.

I've always wanted to use my screen name as a studio name because it's easy to remember (at least I hope it is), and I don't want to be confused with the real estate and dentist who also go by my real name. Plus I personally find it easier to associate screen names with styles of art instead of real names. Interspersing your real name with your screen name wouldn't hurt either.

[Izi]

I've always wanted to use my screen name as a studio name because it's easy to remember (at least I hope it is), and I don't want to be confused with the real estate and dentist who also go by my real name. Plus I personally find it easier to associate screen names with styles of art instead of real names. Interspersing your real name with your screen name wouldn't hurt either.

that sounds absolutely logical. you may want to add your artist name in your title.

I manage about five artists at Ningishzidda Arts and I love them all but I really need to set myself apart from the consortium because of my id-ego-superego.

[s.ketch]

The professionals (or adequately skilled hobbyists) should be the ones critiquing while the noobs learn. When the amateurs get good, they are added to the pool of "experts" who should give out criticisms. This should all be self-regulating as trying to implement some kind of rating system or software solution is difficult. Judge people by their work. Go look at their sketchbooks or whatever threads they have. This is a problem I had with critique-week. Prodding a bunch of people who have little idea what they're doing to just go critique for the sake of increasing post counts is useless. This is what creates hundreds of one-line posts.

It's not that different from peer review or credentials in other academic pursuits. If the person doesn't have an updated sketchbook, or any recent work, or have any proof they master the concepts they're trying to teach; then you don't listen to them. They are not to be taken seriously. Artists should build credibility before trying to make claims. I understand that people want to be social and participate. I realize that just because someone isn't a master, it doesn't mean they have nothing to offer. But quality does drop when you let students run the school. Information here is ubiquitous, good information is not.

A name is everything. I think it's unprofessional to go by Goofball69. And considering all the legal problems that artists can experience, attaching your real name to your work as early as possible seems like a good idea. This goes directly against the idea of internet anonymity but your goal isn't to be anonymous as a free lancer. People need to put work to a name and a face. Where using a psuedonym comes in handy is for your porn furry drawings or fan fiction. Things you wouldn't want a potential client or employer to see. What good is trying to promote a professional atmosphere and high standards if you also encourage people to be anonymous? Anonymity removes accountability. Maybe people would be less prone to be assholes or more motivated to post their best work if they knew it effected their future.

[Reutte]

A name is everything. I think it's unprofessional to go by Goofball69. And considering all the legal problems that artists can experience, attaching your real name to your work as early as possible seems like a good idea. This goes directly against the idea of internet anonymity but your goal isn't to be anonymous as a free lancer. People need to put work to a name and a face. Where using a psuedonym comes in handy is for your porn furry drawings or fan fiction. Things you wouldn't want a potential client or employer to see. What good is trying to promote a professional atmosphere and high standards if you also encourage people to be anonymous? Anonymity removes accountability. Maybe people would be less prone to be assholes or more motivated to post their best work if they knew it effected their future.

What about all the tons of art that may not be shared or posted because some person doesn't want to damage their future employment opps by admitting that yes, they do like to draw porn or gore or violence or whatever. Where does that art fit in in the professional world and in getting work and stuff?

[QueenGwenevere]

It's not that different from peer review or credentials in other academic pursuits. If the person doesn't have an updated sketchbook, or any recent work, or have any proof they master the concepts they're trying to teach; then you don't listen to them. They are not to be taken seriously. Artists should build credibility before trying to make claims. I understand that people want to be social and participate. I realize that just because someone isn't a master, it doesn't mean they have nothing to offer. But quality does drop when you let students run the school. Information here is ubiquitous, good information is not.

Um, except that in a real art school, the students are supposed to give each other critiques. It's a requirement. It's part of getting an art education. In a way, it helps you learn how to analyze your own work and also how to be articulate in talking about it (useful skill to have when discussing possible issues and changes with an art director...) (Also useful for anyone who goes on to direct other artists...)

Though of course in school, critiques are managed by a teacher, who keeps the students on topic and discourages one-liner "I dunno, I like it" critiques. I suppose in an ideal world you'd have mods coaching people all the time, but that would be pretty unrealistic, so hey, we work with what we got.

What about all the tons of art that may not be shared or posted because some person doesn't want to damage their future employment opps by admitting that yes, they do like to draw porn or gore or violence or whatever.

Good point, actually. Many pros have "non-serious" accounts where they post their alternate art. I know I have a few just-for-fun accounts where I post the more risque, bloody, or goofy things that I would want to keep distinctly separate from my main portfolio.

[Arshes Nei]

Well I agree for the most part if you're the average guy/lady looking for a job you need to use your real name.
There is however some things.

As I said a person can develop a handle that isn't "FireballJr" and be more known than the person's real name. I don't think that many really know who "Marcus Perrson" is but may recognize the handle "Notch". If you have a common name, a handle can help at least identify you a little more uniquely.

If you haven't legally changed it, your name can also cause you unfortunate circumstances and ..well racism. If you got those parents that named you "LeQuita" a lot of people just throw away the resume (and you're not gonna know about it) just based on racial circumstances. If your name looks like it's part of the terrorist watch list, or "too ethnic" that can also count against you.

Is it right? Of course not, but unfortunately it happens.

[s.ketch]

What about all the tons of art that may not be shared or posted because some person doesn't want to damage their future employment opps by admitting that yes, they do like to draw porn or gore or violence or whatever. Where does that art fit in in the professional world and in getting work and stuff?

What about it? I qualified my statements accordingly.

Um, except that in a real art school, the students are supposed to give each other critiques. It's a requirement. It's part of getting an art education. In a way, it helps you learn how to analyze your own work and also how to be articulate in talking about it (useful skill to have when discussing possible issues and changes with an art director...) (Also useful for anyone who goes on to direct other artists...)

Though of course in school, critiques are managed by a teacher, who keeps the students on topic and discourages one-liner "I dunno, I like it" critiques. I suppose in an ideal world you'd have mods coaching people all the time, but that would be pretty unrealistic, so hey, we work with what we got.

Then we deal with what comes with it. I was responding to the OP, not saying criticism is useless. Like you said, it's teacher moderated irl but not so much here. So it's not working like it does irl which changes the game a little bit. This isn't a traditional school, maybe some traditional methods don't translate online so well. Besides, moderated student critiques isn't the same as letting them control the information being taught. We're not really talking about the same thing in this regard.

[Izi]

:::quietly replaces s.ketch with Velocity Kendall on her ignore list::::


In the atelier you stfu and let the master crit. You learn more from a master critiquing another person's work than getting a critique from another student on your own stuff. That is the traditional method. Everything newer than Academic Realism is not traditional. Often it is some weirdass bullshit designed to help underpaid and overworked teachers trying to do their best to manage an overcrowded class room.

[QueenGwenevere]

In the atelier you stfu and let the master crit. You learn more from a master critiquing another person's work than getting a critique from another student on your own stuff. That is the traditional method. Everything newer than Academic Realism is not traditional. Often it is some weirdass bullshit designed to help underpaid and overworked teachers trying to do their best to manage an overcrowded class room.

Ooooookaaaay....... I went to an art school where they taught practical illustration skills, not weirdass bullshit, and the teachers were all professional illustrators who knew what they were doing. (For the most part.) And most classes included both student and teacher crits.

And the classrooms were not overcrowded, and the teachers were not particularly underpaid and overworked considering they were all full-time illustrators.

I don't know where on earth you're getting your information. Evidently not from any of the better art schools.

(And what is all this business with throwing around the term "traditional" as if it was a religion, what is that even supposed to mean really...)

[Velocity Kendall]

:::quietly replaces s.ketch with Velocity Kendall on her ignore list::::

How will I ever cope. Good luck s.ketch. Quietly would be to not announce it on Facebook- er I mean CA though?

Often it is some weirdass bullshit designed to help underpaid and overworked teachers trying to do their best to manage an overcrowded class room.

I dunno, we do crits, demos, real project breakdowns, paintovers, 1 on 1s, my crew can get me on skype any time. I can only speak formyself but I just try and demonstrate the techniques I've found that save time, make better work, please art directors and get you paid. If I was speaking for the others, Dorian, Marshall, John English, Sterling, Jason Manley, Jason Felix, and the rest of the faculty Id say you're being taught by some of the most highly regarded illustrators and engaging teachers in the world. Its pretty thin on bullshit and its never crowded. One day youre teaching, the next day your friend is teaching you.
Everyone is a professional adult, everyone works hard, everyone messes around, theres no tears before bedtime about crits.

I don't know where on earth you're getting your information. Evidently not from any of the better art schools.

Bingo. Join TAD, its way more fun than community college (although I remember college being pretty awesome I have to say...) and lots of the students go on to work in TV, movies and games. Its wicked.

[Star Eater]

So glad the thanks button is back.

[Izi]

And what is all this business with throwing around the term "traditional" as if it was a religion, what is that even supposed to mean really...)

For 500 years, the traditional skills and discoveries of the artists funded by the Medici family have been fostered and protected - yes, almost religiously, by the European Academic Tradition. It is this rigorous methodology, perfected in Paris under royal decree, that is found in the atelier enviroment. Once it was perfected it produced some of the finest realists the world has ever known: Sargent, Bouguereau, Gerome, Tadema and on and on and on in that tiny little space of time we call the 1800's. I have said this countless times here that it was brought about by the generosity and hospitality of Italy, and the post-Roccoco era, with its exaggerated and copied-from-copies art. It is still taught in a few schools such as the Art Student's League in New York, Angel Academy in Florence and Tony Ryder's school in Santa Fe among about 30 others. It produces the finest realists in the world, bar none. It takes 5 years of training to be able to claim lineage, 10 years to be considered a master.

It is talked about religiously because it was almost a lost method, like the Greek stonecutting techniques that were poorly copied by the Romans.

The art produced today using the same exact methodologies the French first perfected at the Ecole des beaux arts is the finest in the world.

The lineage of an atelier master on the so-called "flowering tree" - a visual "family" tree map found in most any atelier, can be traced directly to Michelangelo. That is an unbroken lineage.

So glad the thanks button is back.

We have a dislike button at our forum. It's way less passive aggressive.

[Velocity Kendall]

Id say a dislike button is pretty passive aggressive, not to say assholeish? Assholian? Glad we dont have that.

[Elwell]

We did for a while. Only for a few weeks, though. It didn't go well.

[Arshes Nei]

We did for a while. Only for a few weeks, though. It didn't go well.

I know and remember it well lol.

Some of this thread reminds me of 4th grade though - like "I'm rubber you're glue" kind of stuff. Seems to be the complete opposite of certain messages being sent.

[bcarman]

For 500 years, the traditional skills and discoveries of the artists funded by the Medici family have been fostered and protected - yes, almost religiously, by the European Academic Tradition. It is this rigorous methodology, perfected in Paris under royal decree, that is found in the atelier enviroment. Once it was perfected it produced some of the finest realists the world has ever known: Sargent, Bouguereau, Gerome, Tadema and on and on and on in that tiny little space of time we call the 1800's. I have said this countless times here that it was brought about by the generosity and hospitality of Italy, and the post-Roccoco era, with its exaggerated and copied-from-copies art. It is still taught in a few schools such as the Art Student's League in New York, Angel Academy in Florence and Tony Ryder's school in Santa Fe among about 30 others. It produces the finest realists in the world, bar none. It takes 5 years of training to be able to claim lineage, 10 years to be considered a master.

It is talked about religiously because it was almost a lost method, like the Greek stonecutting techniques that were poorly copied by the Romans.

The art produced today using the same exact methodologies the French first perfected at the Ecole des beaux arts is the finest in the world.

The lineage of an atelier master on the so-called "flowering tree" - a visual "family" tree map found in most any atelier, can be traced directly to Michelangelo. That is an unbroken lineage."

You can't appropriate a word because of one narrow tradition. You might not think anything else when you hear the word traditional but that does not give it religious meaning. In fact for many artists it defines a narrow way of thinking and an artisan like repetition of craft.

Now let's see what mess this stirs up.

And I believe the "e" is dropped in assholish. But the correct use of the word is assholishian.

[QueenGwenevere]

To say nothing of the fact that art history - and the history of art education - is not at all linear or unified and is certainly in no way centered on the French Academy of the Nineteenth Century. Not even in France. There's been thousands of different trends and directions and conflicts going waaaay back. Even the ancient Greeks had varied and conflicting trends, from idealization to naturalism to deliberately stylized neo-archaism to imitating Egyptians because it was cool and exotic... There IS no One True Tradition. It's all a big fuzzy mish-mosh and always has been.

And never mind the Eastern traditions and principles, which have absolutely diddly-squat to do with the French Academy, yet are perfectly valid and continue to be applied to contemporary illustration and design with successful results.

[Velocity Kendall]

Bill theres only one day settle this matter; I checked Websters. The correct term is in fact assholery.

"It is talked about religiously because it was almost a lost method, like the Greek stonecutting techniques that were poorly copied by the Romans."

[bcarman]

Bill theres only one day settle this matter; I checked Websters. The correct term is in fact assholery.

"It is talked about religiously because it was almost a lost method, like the Greek stonecutting techniques that were poorly copied by the Romans."

Well Webster is assholish.

[vineris]

I think it ought to be assholitarian, because that implies an Assholitariat.

[Star Eater]

You guys suck all the fun out of assholes.

[Izi]

Id say a dislike button is pretty passive aggressive, not to say assholeish? Assholian? Glad we dont have that.

No it's actually just aggressive. Like irl if I were to slap the shit out of you, you would be angry and that's aggressive. But me saying that sentence just now, was passive aggressive.



And yes there are a lot of different art movements and training methods. But they can't make you paint like this:



Anyways you were asking what tradition meant. Was it a rhetorical question?

[Arshes Nei]

Stop the asshoolery!

[bcarman]

You guys suck all the fun out of assholes.

Yeah you're right, and it tastes pretty shitty.

Anyways you were asking what tradition meant. Was it a rhetorical question?

My point was that tradition doesn't only mean one thing to one person just as good doesn't mean one thing.

[Izi]

I missed walking dead on Sunday and it's not on on-demand. So my sexual partner put on The Horse Whisperer which is like Walking Dead but without zombies, and more difficult to watch. asshole.

so don't talk to me about assholery right now.

(WHY DOES CREEPY ROBERT REDFORD MAKE THE LITTLE GIRL SIT ON THE DYING HORSE?)

[Velocity Kendall]

No it's actually just aggressive. Like irl if I were to slap the shit out of you, you would be angry and that's aggressive. But me saying that sentence just now, was passive aggressive.

Umm.. yeah. OK Yep. Thanks for erm, thanks for clearing that up in the typical slatternly and bafflingly incoherent fashion. Superb assholesmanship there from a master assholavore.

So this ignore list. Not really the guarantee of never having to be addressed by you again that I was hoping for really if Im honest.

"So my sexual partner put on The Horse Whisperer "

Hey isnt the remote hard to use with hoov- no, no. No. No, that's just too easy.

[Elwell]

I missed walking dead on Sunday and it's not on on-demand. So my sexual partner put on The Horse Whisperer which is like Walking Dead but without zombies, and more difficult to watch. asshole.

so don't talk to me about assholery right now.

(WHY DOES CREEPY ROBERT REDFORD MAKE THE LITTLE GIRL SIT ON THE DYING HORSE?)

BTW, that's a teenage Scarlett Johansson. I don't know if that makes things better or worse for you.

[Arshes Nei]

Uhh, last I recall Walking Dead doesn't premiere till this coming Sunday.

[Izi]

Hey isnt the remote hard to use with hoov-

Unicorns can levitate things with their horns

once again, occult mystery solved.