Ringling College of Art and Design 2013 Hopefuls

[Cnyx]

I actually went to a Ringling information session, and they told everyone that in general, we're not expected to have access to figures for drawing (nude, at least), so don't be too concerned about that. Like themegagod said, as long as you have some drawings of people, nude or clothed, you should be perfectly fine.

[JAndrews]

Whew! That's a relief! I thought it HAD to be nude figures. I'll have no problem getting a couple of clothed figure drawings together!

Also, I'm hoping to major in CA. Heard it was one of the top schools for animation in the country, so I figure that going there will give me my best chance at getting a job at a place like Pixar.

[Cnyx]

Yeah, it is, hence why so many people are applying for it xD they usually get four or five hundred applicants a year and they only take 60. it's gonna be hard, but hopefully we can do it

[WaterVase17]

@Cnyx did you go to the session on Tuesday of this week? I was there.

And yea Cnyx and themaggod are right, they don't expect high school students to have nude figure drawing. 60 out of 400-600 is crazy. our chance is like 10 to 15%

[anomalexie]

@ tmg: i feel like as long as you have a good credit score anything's possible. As for banks and interest rates idk. Most websites are biased towards their own and try to sneak in some traps in the fine print that we don't understand I've been advised to stay away from Sallie Mae though I could be wrong.

@JAndrews: yeahhh, you're gonna need at least a few figures in there, or at least demonstrate that you can draw the human body (fleshed out, obviously, not skeletal ;P) as tmg pointed out, clothed is harder and better

@Cynx: what do they mean by exaggerated poses? D:>

[escaphilia]

I think by exaggerated poses they mean really 'dynamic' ones like not your typical: standing straight with arms by side, standard running, etc

Just need to send off my recommendations and then only my portfolio left! I'm already starting to get apprehensive lol

[Cnyx]

@anomalexie : well i'm not really sure how to describe it the way he did, so i found an example: The pose on the left, which is more exagerated, is more useful to them as the pose on the right, which shows less motion, I suppose. I hope that helps, I wasn't really sure how to explain

[anomalexie]

@escaphilia: I have a ton of sitting ones :C and standing. and two laying down... WOULD THAT BE DYNAMIC ENOUGH?? D: hahaha don't worry, we're all pretty freaked :Y especially CA kids.

uah. transfers need 15 pieces right?

[themegagod]

I'm right now in between desktop computers, and I was wondering, would anyone know if freshman dorms and the like are spacious enough to bring my own desktop, or for that matter private/safe enough?
I'm not even sure if I will be dorming, but in the chance I do get in and I do plan to choose to live on campus this is an important question. If I buy a 2,000+ dollar computer, and cant use it most of the time over the next four years, that would be a big waste of money. If on the other hand, I can get good use out of it, having a computer capable of running photoshop-maya-the unreal engine, and being easily upgradable, would be well worth having. I know that the labs will be a place to use good computers anyway, but for home use now, should I bother getting a good graphics computer, or just stick to a decent basic office computer?
Anyone who has any advice is greatly appreciated as well.

[anomalexie]

I feel like even if you buy a top notch computer, you'd still be living in the computer labs 24/7 :Y (plus they give you a laptop too so idk) For that amount of money, just buy an ASUS for high performance gaming and it's portable! My dad bought one recently for work (architecture programs eat up as much memory as photoshop :Y) and its wicked fast, faster than the desktop he put together. I have a HP Pav dv9000 and it's huge and it runs photoshop great, with minor kinks but i have like four programs open at once anyways then again, i try to keep my hd empty so it runs faster

I'm kind of curious to know if it's worth living on campus :L or if i should just find something nearby.

[JAndrews]

It would probably be a good idea to just save your money and go for a cheaper computer. Unless you're into gaming and actually have a need for the improved graphics, I'd stick with something basic. Assuming you get accepted, you'll be getting a personal macbook, and have access to their labs, so I don't think it'd be necessary.

If I get accepted, I'll be applying to stay on-campus. I haven't looked at apartment prices around Sarasota, but it seems like simply paying for the dorm would be more convenient and cheaper than paying a bill for housing, a bill for electricity, a bill for water, etc.

[themegagod]

honestly, for what you get in most dorming locations, often it is much cheaper to live off campus; yet you are sacrificing many of the joys and eases being a college studen, seems to come with. I don't live in sarasota, but I live just north, (about 45 minutes) in Tampa. Rent's here seem to range from about 600-900 for a two bedroom. there are more expensive an also less expensive. add bills, and you really only NEED to worry about electric (no gas, and most often landlords cover water and sewage) and thats maybe 150 more a month. now add cable and phone internet (you get the package) that's about another 100- you keep the cable basic.
so between two people (one to each room) even the more expensive route will cost you about only 600 a month? almost half what it costs to dorm. plus you get a kitchen, possibly, a living room- free space- but you might be any where from 5 minutes to 30 minutes- to an hour from the school (depending on your travel methods). not to mention unless you are in a gated community which will cost often much more, you get no campus security.
then food. IDK what the meal plan costs, but on average, I spend about 300 on food a month... for myself.
theres a reason most college students live off ramen. real food costs money.

[Dunnstar]

300 a month on food for yourself is outrageous. Someone has a really sophisticated palate.

[escaphilia]

@ anomalexie: I don't think any gesture/figure drawings are wholly bad to be honest. I just think by dynamic they mean action oriented poses. Since it's a CA program they want to see that you know how to observe and that you have a general grasp of anatomy and movement.

@ themegagod: I was thinking about whether or not bring my desktop too! lol. I probably won't though, because it'd take up so much room and because they do give you a laptop if you get accepted. It's going to be weird for me to start working from one monitor again, but I think I'll appreciate the extra room since if I get in I'm going stay on campus. The only thing I will probably bring, in that sense, is my Wacom tablet just so I can work out of the labs as well.

[escaphilia]

I think the forum ate my reply o-O *attempts again*

@ anomalexie : By dynamic poses I'm thinking action oriented poses. They essentially want to know that you can observe from life and you have a general grasp of anatomy and motion. Especially since it's a CA program.

@ themagagod: I thought about bringing my computer along with me if I got in, but decided against it since yeah, you'd be getting a laptop. Also, I didn't want to take too much space in my room, but I will be bringing my Wacom tablet. I'm sure they have one in the labs, but I'd also like one in my dorm.

@ Dunnstar: No it isn't. I spend about the same per month on myself: about $75 - $100 per week.

[themegagod]

300 a month on food for yourself is outrageous. Someone has a really sophisticated pallette.

Lol, I may be exaggerating slightly. a long with those costs tend to come the miscellaneous items, such as shampoo, dish soap, Lysol cleaners, vitamins, and so on. I also am cutting down on starches and salts because I have a family history of diabetes and heart issues. that means I cant eat fillers like bowls of rice, or ramen, and most of my meals consist of a meat serving and a very decent amount of vegetables, and for flavor a lot of various seasonings, and low salt flavorings (such as lemon juice).
so yeah My eating habits may be a bit more expensive than most, which still should go to show that living off campus would still be cheaper.
and if I review the math it probably is closer to 250$ a month.
between me and my mother, we pay about 240-280 every 2-3 weeks. some weeks are better than others, and this also includes other goodies like ice cream.
think of it this way 3 meals a day at roughly 3 dollars is 9 dollars a day. 9 dollars a day for 30 days is 270 dollars. now breakfast is normally cheaper (a couple of eggs) and buying things in bulk such as beans, and if you can eat it, rice, will save you a lot of money. also cut out things like soda, and cakes, and you should be able to save a bit more.

[themegagod]

I'm not sure if I gave thanks for the computer buying advice, so if not thank you guys. I'm now looking to invest in a decent system (nothing spectacular) that can be easily up gradable, in case I still want to use it after a while.

Now another technology question. Should we be investing in our own tablets, or again is that something we will often be using only in Labs and not need to worry much for while in our "homes"?
right now I have a small bamboo fun- but I think I'm finally ready to upgrade to the intous systems, especially if I'm going to want to be able to start knocking out some good digital work. But again, would a $200+ investment wind up being a silly thing to do, since I may not really use it during the years of it being "top of the line"? Or would it be a smart investment?

(and this is all using the hypothetical situation I get in!)

[escaphilia]

*tests*

EDIT: Okay, all of my posts were being eaten earlier o_O weird!


Anyway, in my opinion a tablet is always a good investment, especially if you need any kind of digital art in your career choice. I have a Wacom Intuos and plan to take it with me if I get in, even though I believe they have tablets in the lab. That way I can also work in my dorm if need be.

I'm thinking about whether or not I should buy a cliniq before I go, which would, again just be a part of a personal investment as well.

[anomalexie]

@ tmg: i don't know about you guys, but I'm perfectly happy with the quality my bamboo gives me. i upgraded from some weird Genius tablet my father bought me to start with when I was younger, but the quality wasn't great and I always got really weird results with the pressure sensitivity. I feel like a bamboo is just fine. You are literally paying a hundred dollars more for a bigger frame and buttons on the side of the tablet because the pad where you actually draw on is the same size for an Intuos. I feel like tablets are necessary in a digital field, as escaphilia mentioned, and it would be extremely handy to have a tablet (so you can keep working when you get kicked out of the labs at midnight ). I was going to buy an Intuos but the bamboo is the same thing just more portable and cheaper, but that was my personal decision. I think the Intuos's pressure sensitivity is a little higher, but how sensitive do you really need it to be XD A Cintiq, personally, is something I really want to purchase, but like AFTER I graduate Ringling (if I make it in anyways) because the labs have Cintiqs (I've seen pictures and afasgdfvfasf I LOVE IT). It's really professional grade equipment and I feel like I need to graduate to that level of professionalism to get it <: Personally, bamboo is more than enough, I've grown a lot with my digital art whenever I use it. I can live without the buttons, I have to keep one hand on the keyboard anyways.

lol also consider buying in bulk (food i mean). For like 70 or so dollars, I have enough for myself to eat for lunch and dinner for a month (god bless costco). But it never lasts that long because my family keeps taking my food :< (in actuality it lasts 2 weeks but like there's three other people digging into my stash >:C) and I'm rather small and I dont really eat much to begin with but still. And its like pizza and macaroni and those lean cuisine things. Got some chicken tenders and chips.

[themegagod]

@ tmg: i don't know about you guys, but I'm perfectly happy with the quality my bamboo gives me.

my bamboo fun is the first tablet I've ever used and I got it back in 2009. I've used it primarily for Adobe flash, and though it is a lot better than working with a mouse, it could be better. Its pressure sensitivity is not what I see pros able to achieve, when I"ve watched video tutorials online. I've set my setting just as the "pro" says they have their programs set, yet the qualities are still very different. Now true, there may be a limit to the amount of pressure one really will use, but I imagine it would be the difference of working with good paint brushes versus dollar store bargain brushes. true with enough skill and practice a good enough artist can get the cheaper brushes to achieve any desired result, but the better brushes, would make the same results possible much easier. I think. Again, never having used another tablet, IDK how much different they'd be, but the line quality I've gotten from my tablet could be better.
as well I've also had problems with the tablet clicking and staying clicked (highlighting whole articles) or making lines long after i've picked my stylus off of the tablet.
I'm not saying the bamboo is bad, but I think mine is just getting a bit tired. Now I'm not sure how much easier working with 3-d elements will be based on pressure sensitivity, (can't imagine it'd make too much difference) though i'd imagine if using zbrush and mudbox you could really benefit. IDK for a fact though.

A Cintiq, personally, is something I really want to purchase, but like AFTER I graduate Ringling (if I make it in anyways) because the labs have Cintiqs (I've seen pictures and afasgdfvfasf I LOVE IT). It's really professional grade equipment and I feel like I need to graduate to that level of professionalism to get it <:

I've never seen a cintiq in person, but I can't wait until I do. those things seem gorgeous, but I don't know if I can invest in one of those until I know I will get full use out of everyone of it's features. I think the first time i get to use one, I"m going to be giggling like a someone having their foot caressed by a feather.

lol also consider buying in bulk (food i mean).

Yes I will buy 100 tablets! that way I never run out!
That is a good idea, and I'll try it- yet I'm not a small guy (6 foot 180 lbs) and again my diet habits are particular. lean cuisine wouldn't fill me, pizza has a high carb content so its a once in awhile thing, and macaroni I've nearly entirely removed from my diet! lol. most things that are preserved well enough to last a month or more are usually really high in sodium (look at a can of just about anything) , so it may just be one of those areas that hurt the bank. but if it keeps me healthy, it's worth the extra. besides, if I live off campus and have a kitchen, I'd rather cook most of the time. but things like junk food and coffee. that will always be bought in bulk... issue is making it last a month, XD.

[escaphilia]

I'm definitely dating myself here lol, but I've been with Wacom a loooong time. First I had their Grapphire series and then those pretty much got replaced with the Bamboo line. Which I also used for short time. So there was definitely improvement made between those two lines.

As for Intuos vs Bamboo, yes there are buttons on the side (which to be honest, I really don't use), and you are paying for higher resolution/pressure sensitivity levels, pen nib variety, but that can definitely make a difference. Don't get me wrong, you can make GREAT art with any medium, but think of it like any traditional art tools. Like if you are going to ink something would you use charcoal? So, if you are doing photo manipulation or some GD work then any tablet will do well, but for illustrative work the price is definitely worth it. Again though, if you feel like the Bamboo works just fine and want to save on costs, then that is certainly understandable

What I was going to say, when my earlier comments got deleted, is that I spent about $75 - $100 a month on food for myself as well xD Like you though, I tend to not eat processed foods. Have no idea what the cost of living in Florida is, but I'm hoping I can continue that trend without going broke lol

EDIT : 75 - 100 a week not a month lol xD

[Lizzybeth]

Hey guys, got another question in from themegagod:

What are some of the main books you might recommend a budding digital artist pick up? What were some of the most helpful learning materials you've used? If there were any prerequisite knowlege you would say we had better learn before Ringling what would it be (eg: I've heard often that it is highly recommended to learn Photoshop)? How can we do that/ learn it?

Shoot. I don't know. Draw a lot. Seriously. That's the best advice there is. Look at everything. Form, light, peoples' eye and body language, composition, sound, the things that make you laugh, the things that make you cry, the things that get you excited, how things move, cascade, relate. Look at life. Look at the works that get you excited or stop you in your tracks and make you recollect your thoughts. Make your own works. Look at your own works. Rinse, repeat, and look closer. Honestly, doing that (like REALLY doing that) is better than any book you could ever read.

There's a lot of books and information out there in the world. The vast majority of it I haven't read. But reading up on and introducing yourself to the basics of new areas BEFORE you get to them in school certainly is helpful. I'd recommend The Animator's Survival Kit to anyone starting out in animation. It's by no means the authoritative text and shouldn't strictly be followed, but it's a great introduction to a lot of basic concepts and can give you a little head start. I read the first half of it over the summer before Ringling and that really helped me hit the ground running when I got to TA since it gave me a bit of an idea of what was going on right away. Very helpful for me too has been The Bare Bones Camera Course for Film and Video. Understanding Comics was also been very insightful also, especially from the perspective of reading it towards the end of school. Of course there's the Illusion of Life which is the animation bible and absolutely fantastic and everyone should read it. I haven't actually read it myself, and as an animation student I should probably be taken out back and beat up for that, but the bits and pieces I have read have been absolutely wonderful. There's a reason they call it the animation bible - and just like the bible you can open it to almost any page and find some bit of wisdom relevant to you at the time.

I don't recommend books on drawing or art really. If you're going to read anything read about animation - or better yet film. The animation program is not a film program, just as it is not a visual development program. You will learn a lot and have the opportunity to exercise that knowledge through assignments - but you will only get a piece of the picture. Just like animation, or color, film is a very new thing to many many artists and adequately understanding it will greatly benefit you in the entertainment industry. I did a little talk briefly introducing the basics and some of my personal insights from working with it in school back in the spring and put a quick write up of it online here. At the bottom is a list of some very good books.

There's no real pre-requisites to coming to Ringling. None of this is necessary, but everything helps, knowledge is power. The more traditional media you are familiar with the better. Getting friendly with Maya can't hurt, I didn't and it took some getting used to, but I saw some people just sink in that program, it's like they hit a wall. Yeah, the more knowledge and tools in your tool belt the more it'll help you because Ringling's not there to teach you the tools.

YES LEARN PHOTOSHOP. It's not a pre-req by any means but it will make your life a lot easier if you're not floundering around with it when you've got stuff due. Know the things that it can do, pick up some tricks, be able to any normal task in it comfortably and efficiently. Learn dem keyboard shortcuts. You can learn it by getting photoshop and clicking buttons. It's far more straight forward than something like maya. The internet can teach you lots about it if clicking around isn't enough.

LEARN HOW TO USE A TABLET. Practice and be able to draw with one. You're going to use them for work everyday so get good and shake out the clumsy BEFORE you get to the work. It's just like photoshop, you will need it for your work, so be good enough with it so your lack of knowledge/coordination doesn't slow you down or hurt your work. I found the best way to quickly get used to using a tablet was to play flash games with one instead of a mouse. Ones where you have to click a lot in different areas rapidly are great. I learned in three hours by playing insaniquarium back in the day. The urgency of games helps you overcome the awkward hand eye coordination gap faster by not giving you time to question yourself. If you don't have a tablet then you had better check one out from Ringling and be super comfortable on it before the end of freshman year or you're going to be hurting later.

-Also just skimming recent posts, I'll weigh in of the great tablet debate. I honestly don't thing upgrades matter at all. I had a 4x6 graphire 3 and would probably still be using it if the cord didn't go bad freshman year and I took the opportunity to upgrade to a 6x11 intuos 3. That intuos served me well through school and saw more use than the entire PC I got senior year. I didn't even notice any difference in quality honestly, but having a 6x8 area is better, especially when you work on the giant monitors of the lab computers. It was great too since my tablet was the same model as the ones in the labs at the time so I could write my name on my pen and use it in the labs. I don't have a cintiq and I don't want a cintiq. I've heard they improve work quality and workflow speed - but they're expensive, less portable, and hard to switch back from since they're so nice. They also hurt my eyes - and that's the big reason right there. When I would work on them in the 24 hour labs which was filled with cintiqs (but ironically using my intuos, I didn't have a cintiq pen or bother to check one out) I noticed significant eye strain - far more than when using the regular monitors and it would appear in less than half the time.

That brings me to something else I'd recommend. Teach yourself to work in different configurations. Be able to use a mouse but also be able to use a tablet in place of a mouse. Maybe even try out a vertical mouse. People in this industry actually get work injuries. It's rough on your eyes, wrists, arms, back, and overall well being with all the sitting, repetitive motions, and staring at light. Mix it up when working, change your workspace and how you sit, maybe even go for some gunnar glasses. Be aware of this stuff and start following good practices. The sooner you do the better off you will be. Seriously.

[XxMikaruxX]

Hey guys! I'm a third year Illustration student at Ringling so if you guys have any questions feel free to shoot me a message or post on here

As for some of the questions already posed:

Tablets:

Yes the pressure sensitivity is WAY better on an Intuos, personally I'm glad I upgraded from my Bamboo. I also dislike working on the Cintiq's, but that is personal preference.

Books:

Framed Ink <-- Good for Composition and learning value structire
Creative Illustration by Andrew Loomis
Color and Light by James Gurney.

These three books are basically my Go-to. Anything other than that should probably be reference material or Artists books that you admire (I love doing master copies so I learn through other artist books as well)

[escaphilia]

You guys are awesome, thank you so much!!

Great book refs. Looked up the Animator's Survival Kit and it also has a DVD series, which I think I may have to save up for. =D Already from the preview videos it looked extremely helpful.

How is the illustration department going for you, XxMikarusxX? That is my second choice behind CA. What kind of assignments do you get and whatnot? What is the focus in that department?

[JAndrews]

I've got a question on the application process. The common application is telling me that I'm supposed to email a school report and teacher evaluations to my counselor and teachers in order to complete the application. Then the Ringling website is telling me that I need a secondary school report and/or teacher evaluation. Are the common application emails the same thing that Ringling is asking for, or are two different things? I'm a bit confused on that part of the process.

As for tablets, I know I've got one somewhere, but I haven't ever really used it. I'm a more a pencil/paper person. I think it's a Wacom...

[anomalexie]

@JAndrews: it's essentially telling you you need two rec letters: one from your teacher and one from another teacher or a guidance counselor. You have to send your teacher and invitation through CommonApp via email so that they have a direct link to upload your rec letter. You should play around on photoshop with your wacom, just to get the feel of it.

@ Lizzybeth: I read Animator's Survival Guide last year and it was soooo goood. I'll have to pick it up again if I get accepted. I agree, the only way to learn is like doing master copies: you imitate and practice and experiment and get faster and draw, draw, draw C: I need to get my hands on the Illusion of Life D: Thanks for your words of wisdom! C: Is getting into Maya really difficult? I experimented with Maya in my animation class in high school and we did several modeling projects and such in Blender, but I've heard most of the Maya related classes are pretty much tutorial based.

@tmg: Personally, to learn photoshop I just looked at a lot of digital painting tutorials from dA from artists who had a style I really liked, read a lot on proportions and light and color (although I still don't get light and color ; o Its just a matter of observing the methods people use to get the results you want.

[XxMikaruxX]

@Escaphilla It's going pretty great We do a wide Range of things, from assignments like Billboards to book covers. It all depends on the teacher. What they prepare you for really is completing a commission with certain requirements for the future. Right now we are Illustrating a 3 Part sequential Aesop tale. (Think comic books)

[themegagod]

Not sure if anyone would know, but in the GAD program, do they do a decent amount of work with characters, or is it really a very minor aspect of the program? The reason I ask is because CA and GAD are constructed very similarly as far as fundamentals and class types go (animation I is opposite to game design I and so on), yet CA has a primary focus on the characters and it shows, yet GAD students don't seem to have much of any characters in their reels.
I see in their blogs they do have to create models of characters at some point, but I don't see much character action in the thesis films. Is this just because most GADs want to focus on Environmental design, or is this an aspect of the program itself?
(why aren't GADs more active on here!! grrr Xo)

[Cnyx]

I went to "Discover Ringling" Session, and they said that CAs focus specifically on character animation, while GADs focus on creating digital environments and worlds.

[escaphilia]

@Escaphilla It's going pretty great We do a wide Range of things, from assignments like Billboards to book covers. It all depends on the teacher. What they prepare you for really is completing a commission with certain requirements for the future. Right now we are Illustrating a 3 Part sequential Aesop tale. (Think comic books)

That sounds awesome! That's definitely what I was hoping for. =D