The Cold Boat

[mus]

I am fairly new to digital painting. Please feel free to suggest improvements, for me i think ICe is the most difficult to handle , so i have tried to give it a shot.

[David_a_ray]

Wow it’s almost been a whole month since you uploaded this.

There are a couple of issues I can see right off. The first is that the foot prints indicate a huge person who couldn’t fit in the igloo. They’re also not on the right plane. It looks more like we’re looking at foot prints from above instead of from the side. Plus in snow like that, you’re going to end up with more of a long trough instead of individual foot prints. The trees don’t recede in perspective properly. You got pretty close, but not quite close enough.

The last thing is: I can’t tell that the first shape is a boat. I also question what a crashed boat would be doing so far in-land.

[mus]

Hi,

SOrry for my lateness, according to the feedback i have worked on the foot steps, please suggest of they are well enough now? - I have also changed the comp a little top "open up" the space. I have also reduced the scale of the footprints.
Also trees have been more reduced to give the haze on them.

As for the boat the concept i had in mind is the boat has been stuck here when this area was water, and since it has snowed now, so it capsized.

Thanks for the further input!

[Heyriel]

Better than the first version for sure! Though I think the Iglo looks quite a bit tilted/warped. Compare with this image: http://www.schoolplaten.com/kleurplaat-iglo-dm10197.jpg (must me more like an actual half-circle and with the entrace like that, the curve of it's top would not end where the entrance is attached to its main shape, if that explanation makes any sense at all xD )

[mus]

I a few more updations:

-Fence added.
-Trees have snow on the branches...

Regarding the igloo i think i get the point...I will try to fix it out, so that its more of a half circle + the entrance, might have to repaint some parts.

[Renzowolf]

Another thing to keep in mind are the shadows. One of the most prominent things in snowscapes are the dark blue shadows that really define form. Currently there is only like 5% contrast in the whole image, it might help to be a little more creative with the lighting. Also play around with the composition. The boat and the Igloo are really competing for attention.

[lkinnebrand]

For the boat to get stuck there there would have to be rather deep water, and either there should be water where the igloo is too, if not very deep, or there should be a small but steep cliff in between them. Maybe you intended where the trees are to the land and where the igloo is to be where the water is/was?
I get the impression that the picture is pretty much random, unrelated objects thrown together, even if that's not the case. They doesn't really connect together or tell a story. It also made more sense when the footprints came from the left side of the picture, because right now it rather looks like somebody crashed the boat and walked over and built an igloo, I'm afraid... which is not very possible, considering that crashing a boat in snow is rather hard, which makes it all more confusing. Does that make sense? I know I write rather confusingly.

Also, the igloo looks very flat, like it was stamped to a flat canvas. Consider the round form of the igloo, and bring it out by picking a light source and sticking to it. Right now the boat and the igloo is not lit from the same direction. Also, I would recommend make give the objects in the pictures, including the trees, a stronger cast shadow on the ground. It would make them look more unrelated and floating.

Hope I didn't scare you with all that, I'm just bad at keeping myself short! It's overall a pretty picture, and it has a nice, calming feeling to it.

[GON3POSTAL]

couple of things. First, I like the mountains, you did a nice job on those. I think that the trees are too regular looking. as far as the boat goes, It looks like to me that there used to be a lake there that dried up. Also, I think the fence makes the setting very confusing. With the regularly spaced trees and fence, you get a sense that someone spent time landscaping the area, while with the crashed boat and the igloo you get a sense that it is supposed to be a harsh inhospitable environment. I think you should pick one, because it does make it a bit confusing. Personally, I would go with trying to depict a harsh environment, but that is up to you. If you are going for a more wild look, try adding more trees in the background and making there spacing a little more irregular. Also, I kind of wonder if it was such an inhospitable environment what kind of trees could survive there? I also think you could go a little larger with the boat possibly.

[mus]

Thanks lkinnebrand, Got it!, great feedback here...I am re thinking on these lines. Let me see what I can do to improve the igloo and give it more dimension .


GON3POSTAL : Points noted. Specially that fence part I need to re-do things.

[Avvatar]

Looking at this image I have no idea what's going on. There are random objects and a very static and boring composition, not to mention dull colors. What are you trying to convey?

[mus]

Looking at this image I have no idea what's going on. There are random objects and a very static and boring composition, not to mention dull colors. What are you trying to convey?

That has already been discussed and a great lot of pointers have been suggested as well, do you have any suggestions on improvement?


I am trying to convey a deserted area in the frozen land and a survivor.

Thanks!

[mus]

I have removed the boat altogether. I left the debris intentional to give a hint of some sort of crash, fixed the igloo as well. Introduced the grave.

C&C please

[jdp89]

Some things are improved, but overall I think this one is worse than the previous ones. :-(

Is the sky supposed to be clear, overcast, or is it supposed to be in the middle of a blizzard? Are there strong winds blowing snow all over the place? What time of day is this?

If we can see the mountains, then the sky has GOT to be pretty clear. If it's clear, then we should be seeing some more contrast. A lot more contrast. Right now if I squint, it looks like a light blue canvas with a tiny dark spot on the right, and a little smudge on the left. I don't know how much of an absolute it is, but I've heard when it comes to the three values (darks, midtones, and light values), you want to have 2/3 of one, 1/3 of a second, and a little bit of the third. In your case, you might want to go with 2/3 light, 1/3 midtones, and just a little bit of darks.

All that said, I'm still learning these things myself, so take what I said with a grain of salt. ;-)

[mus]

@jdp89 : Thanks for the info, specially the ingredients on the ratios you mentioned (Although I couldn't follow them completely yet, I will read a couple of times) , you are right I am probably confused between the lights, mids and darks not that I dont have an understanding on these but seems a problem to put them on a the canvas where they are suppose to be.

For the questions:
-I didn't want the sky to be clear then I would have to work more on the mountains, I want them to be in haze, far off.
-No blizzard, blizzard has already passed.
-Sun is not through due to the overcast sky.


Btw: i just followed those ratio thingy once i read again. You meant out of the Mids, darks and lights , any one of those should follow the rations 2/3 , 1/3 and the remaining amount to be assigned to the third tone.

[mus]

Updated the sky. any better? I might work on the clouds a tad more.

[Kiera]

Edit: Just noticed that you've updated, nice! The sky makes it far better, I like that you've dropped the grave .


The picture has gotten progressivley worse, mainly because you neglect the big picture for the details.
Hard-to-read storytelling elements and the awkward metaphor with the grave aside*, there is no midtone and only 3 tiny dark places in the latest picture.
There's a hierarchy of things that make a picture successful, the most important things are probably value and contrast (is everything just a grey slush or is there a dark tone and a bright tone?).
Squint and look at the first picture and then the latest one.

From the comments I guess you want a white, vast mood, a bit to the sad side.
References help you to get fresh ideas:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevego...n/photostream/
(squint at this picture and just take in the values: from above: midtone band in the sky, light band in mid sky, dark and midtone houses and hill details, a gradient across the snow from midtone to a bit darker midtone)

http://static.guim.co.uk/Guardian/en...c-fox-2074.jpg
Squint again, what parts are bright, what are dark?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pinklig...70770/sizes/c/
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3...nfno1_1280.png
http://www.kunst-malerei.info/oelmal..._friedrich.jpg
How is vastness and lonliness conveyed?
Note how most of the time, the elements of the landscapes themselves are metaphors

Also Matts answer in this thread is nice, it shows how values can be used to push a picture:
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...-for-freedback!



*the grave looks like bugs bunny walked a while and then tunneld.

[mus]

Oh , i was totally lying flat on the ground after i read your comments, not that they are harsh but I thought these are after my last post update... :p , and now i noticed you edited. Phew.
I agree with that grave shouldn't have put it in the first place...it was crappy work.
I think the mountains will need work since I had used/modified these out from some landcape...previously they were under haze so were partially visible, now they would need some re-work.

[Avvatar]

The update is better but no matter what you do at this point this will remain a boring painting unless you go back to the thumbnail stage and pick a more compelling and engaging composition and atmosphere. The fact that you are editing in and out different objects makes it obvious that you had no plan for this, which is the key to producing interesting work.

[mus]

@Avvatar : True that is, because I am practicing out, the initial idea that I had didn't work out much so I have to try and bring the best possible results I can out of this. Just trying to make this work. It wont be perfect but it can be better.

[mus]

It might not be possible to grow grass/plants in such conditions, but I think it can be said that hope was in place.

[Avvatar]

Again you are grasping blindly for easy solutions, the sooner you realize that a weak composition will always remain a weak composition the better off you'll be. Don't be afraid to let loose and destroy your work, often the outcome is far better than what it started out as. And just as a side note the igloo is out of perspective.

[jdp89]

I like the colors/values on the new one much more than the previous, but like others are saying, the composition needs to be re-thought out in the thumbnail stage. Figure out what you want to show (objects and their arrangement), and why (i.e. the story behind the elements).

The igloo is still out of perspective, and the tones on it don't match the rest of the image. (The gray shadows look really out of place with such a strong blue sky.) ;-) But don't worry about it. Get started on those thumbnails!