Advice, Stuck,How-To, Arghhh!

[Black Spot]

Haven't got sketchbook up yet no,

Make one. Post, comment on others, they might comment back, then you have to decide if that information is right or off the mark - this is where you really start to learn. It can take time for what people are saying to sink in. Some of us are more patient than others, so choose carefully what advice you listen to and keep the rest in the back of mind to dwell on.

[vineris]

First of all, the forum must be structured in a way for a learner or new user to find information easily, it will reduce repeat questions substantially.

I am extremely sorry to say, every time I come here on the forum with some query in mind, I have to face forum bullies just because they have better art in their sketchbooks or other threads, they take it as their right to mock if someone wants to learn.

I treat the Internet as a free-for-all shark tank, and as a result I haven't had any dangly bits bitten off in a good long while. You have to remember that the Internet is a place where people amuse themselves, not a place where people desire to unconditionally help you with your problems. Sometimes that amusement means answering a question and sometimes it means gnawing your toes off. Figure out what sets people off and minimize your risks.

[NajamQ]

I would like to unconditionally apologize to staff members and other people. I have been rude, for which I am extremely embarrassed.

[Star Eater]

I would like to unconditionally apologize to staff members and other people. I have been rude, for which I am extremely embarrassed.

Pfft, forget about it. I embarrass myself and say something stupid here
on a weekly basis. Make it up to us by posting some of your art, working
hard and landing a sweet contract. You can then tell everyone in interviews
that your trial by fire was on these forums and that you owe all your
success to its members. In particular one particularly handsome and skilled
super moderator.

[Arshes Nei]

We seem to be regurgitating the same arguments for NamaQ since

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=235695

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=229365

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=226578

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=212839

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=212839

Threads about how to start, art block ...each time NamaQ the advice is stop worrying so much and draw more. "But I want to ask the professionals" great, but why aren't you posting in your sketchbook to get more feedback, to show people you're actually bothering with the advice?

Getting tired of the "people are mocking" me card but you keep coming back and asking questions. Show me where the mocking is in your sketchbook?

I would like to unconditionally apologize to staff members and other people. I have been rude, for which I am extremely embarrassed.

Apology not accepted until you are posting results!

[Xopher]

If anyone would like to go back to commenting on the OP or telling me to go draw, id be fine with that I am kinda over the Najamq discussion hijacking the thread lol not anyone fault just saying.

[vineris]

If anyone would like to go back to commenting on the OP or telling me to go draw, id be fine with that I am kinda over the Najamq discussion hijacking the thread lol not anyone fault just saying.

Threads are inclined to wander. That's why they have all those little legs.

Now go DRAAAAAW!

[battlebattle]

i honestly cant believe this forum sometimes.
elwell, did you really just "offer" to ban that guy for having an different opinion?

its like, some self taught artist who started on here told everybody i just worked hard! thats the secret. and if you dont completely just blindly unwaveringly with no question believe in that asinine montra youre an outsider.

youre not allowed to be new, or to ask questions, or to ask for specific answers.

of course youre going to get what we as people have been doing it for years know are more "stupid" questions...but "stop whining start working" isnt the ultimate answer and that shit really does need to change.

[LucasCottom]

I see a wonderful passionate community in most online message board forums. I found this site years ago from hanging out over at gutterzombie and, it seemed very intimating, so I never registered.

Online communities are always thick as thieves, especially if members frequent many other boards and have an actual online presence. I don't think here, most of the noob bashing is about artistic abilities, it's about being a forum noob in general. Just remember, everyone is a total noob at something or another. If you do "get your toes chewed off", no big deal, you just might want to think before you post again..respect the community and what they have established through passion and arrogance( arrogance in a good way )

CA.org seems to put a huge effort in thwarting this, by having tons of stickies and sub-forums. But as a new comer, most people get the impression they are supposed to ask questions. But, yeah, I learned years ago to read the "read this if new to this forum" Most forums have this sticky. Now I'm gonna crawl back in my hole, because I just asked a dumb question a few minutes ago.

[Star Eater]

i honestly cant believe this forum sometimes.
elwell, did you really just "offer" to ban that guy for having an different opinion?

No, he didn't. Where are you actually drawing that conclusion from?

youre not allowed to be new, or to ask questions, or to ask for specific answers.

of course youre going to get what we as people have been doing it for years know are more "stupid" questions...but "stop whining start working" isnt the ultimate answer and that shit really does need to change.

You are talking out of your ass.

[Xopher]

Threads are inclined to wander. That's why they have all those little legs.

Now go DRAAAAAW!

Yeeh true, but when one leg grows so long then thread walks kinda funny

EDIT: oops DRAW that's right (I was never here! shhh)

@battlebeetle: Seriously NajamQ registered in 2008 if you got asked same thing over and over for 4 years (or 2 if you go from first post) wouldn't you be a little annoyed at the very least. He has some valid points Im glad he posted on the thread but seems to resort to saying members or the forum isn't helping him and feels attacked. Even the harsher words I can see are said in a effort to help him in exactly what he is asking for.

Truth hurts take it or leave it.

its like, some self taught artist who started on here told everybody i just worked hard! thats the secret. and if you dont completely just blindly unwaveringly with no question believe in that asinine montra youre an outsider.

What..what..what..... -Dr Who


hmm mockingbird hijack

[Alice Herring]

its like, some self taught artist who started on here told everybody i just worked hard! thats the secret. and if you dont completely just blindly unwaveringly with no question believe in that asinine montra youre an outsider.

youre not allowed to be new, or to ask questions, or to ask for specific answers.

of course youre going to get what we as people have been doing it for years know are more "stupid" questions...but "stop whining start working" isnt the ultimate answer and that shit really does need to change.

There are a few things to consider.

The questions from a beginner are basically loaded with baggage - not from that beginner, but all the others before him (or her) who have used those questions to avoid drawing. Unless everyone started having a sketchbook filled with work first, it's going to be impossible to avoid this. - of course the second flaw is that a person will do like three drawings then ask for help, but that's an entirely different ball of wax. :)

I was new, asked questions, are for the most part, got pretty good responses. Of course I set out with some personal rules as guides:

1. do not use the forums as self validation. Other people looking at my work or seeing what I'm doing doesn't make me a better artist.

2. do not use the forums for "ooo, look at what I'm doing aren't I thinking so hard by asking thinky questions?" (which generally means google and the forum's search tool are my first options, rather than posting.)

3. The inverse is true. I try not to use the forums to show "oooo, look at how hard I am working tell me how wonderful that is" For every piece I intend to show, I should have more drawings/studies that are never publicly seen, or only kept in the sketchbook thread.

4. If someone critiques my work, unless it's wildly off the mark, I generally say thank you and if possible, address it. If I am not going to be doing any further work on that piece, I will still say thank you.

5. If I did post something that was mildly stupid or violated one of my own rules (hey, I'm human) and someone calls me a stupid head to just draw/read/whatever, I don't engage with remarks defending myself. Defending myself in that manner is NOT going to make the other person change their mind, and often times reflects poorly on me.

6. Don't be here to prove anything. Only be here to make friends, learn new things, and improve.

7. improvement comes from practice, not from asking a bunch of little questions to "be prepared". If a question comes up while working on something, then there's nothing wrong about asking. (especially if I show what I'm working on!)

8. If I have a question, someone else has probably thought of it first. Again, google and the search function are my friends.

9. saying how much I'm struggling never solved anything. Yes, it sucks - but it's my own problem to deal with and not the forum. (again, an ego check for me that goes back to the "look how hard I'm working!" thing.)

So. In retrospect, apparently I have an ego problem. :)

What I've also learned is if a person is shouted off with "draw more!" and they actually go and draw more? No one cares that they may have asked a stupid question. What they care about is that the person is actively drawing and trying to get better. It's basically the art-world version of "show me the money" instead of "talk the talk", to mix metaphors. :)

Vineris: Om nom nom? :)

[Xopher]

@Alice Herring : I really enjoyed your Sketchbook, especially the figure studies.

[NajamQ]

The truth about me registered here since 2008 is because I was redirected here somehow and registered finding a good community.

Why I most of my questions are about "How to get started" ; I am professionally Software Engineer, so typically My mind is tuned on finding a specific algorithm to solve a problem.

For 2 years I had been spending energy in the wrong direction, I was trying to find a holy grail of making art. A perfect algorithm in simple words. I was trying to find a formula for drawing any thing.

It is here I first learned that I must learn traditional drawing first and than translate my skills to digital medium which I am still not able to.

I never intended to offend anyone. Internet is a messy place and mostly its written text.

IMHO you cannot make out an expression out of written sentence, A very light humor may seem offensive at first sight, but since you haven't talked to the person ever before you get confused at the tone. This happened to me and I learned it the hard way that no one is trying to offend me in anyway.

A Little History about myself.

I got hooked up in digital art when I saw "A bug's life" movie the first time, I didn't had a computer than but when I got one, I started to learn 3Ds Max 3 right away without any formal training in art, after some years I got skilled in using the tool but lacked the ability to make art. Later I got tangled up in graduation, when I got some time I again bought an expensive Tablet thinking I will learn from tutorials etc. The main culprit in this frustration was Speed Painting videos on youtube which got me thinking that it may be some good formula these people use. I bought books, courses, workshop issues thinking that they will let me learn to digital paint like a pro and hence went in totally wrong direction. Now I believe I am coming on right track, learning Form, Perspective, Value, lighting and I practice everyday for some months.

I again apologize for any rude comment made by me in the past. I am going to scan my current sketchbook and upload it.

I would like to thanks everyone in helping me out. Specially @TinyBird who has always motivated me doing the "right" practice. I wasn't able to get hold of the way @Arshes Nei helps but now I am able to comprehend what she is actually saying.

English is not my primary language. So many times I do get lost in translation.

[Xopher]

I see Michaelangelo sitting on his scaffolding waiting for the Church to finish its procession, decides to jump on his laptop and log in to CA:

raphaelsux567: I am sooo bored, my back and neck are killing me this stupid pope keeps making me wait and constantly wants to see my work.

Xopher: yeh but he might throw you off if you don't show him.

raphaelsux567: How dare you give me advice noob, but in all honesty I am worried all my women look like men, I am no good at painting.

Xopher: shoukd check out my just draw thread.

raphaelsux567: R U fckin kidding me I have been painting everyday for 10 months and only half done and YOU have the audacity to tell me just to DRAW!!!!

Xopher: 'crys a little and assumes the fetal position', I was just trying to help snif sniff.

Xopher: btw cool statues.

Translation:
Michelangelo: To Giovanni da Pistoia
"Sistine Chapel"—1509

I've already grown a goiter from this torture,
hunched up here like a cat in Lombardy
(or anywhere else where the stagnant water's poison).
My stomach's squashed under my chin, my beard's
pointing at heaven, my brain's crushed in a casket,
my breast twists like a harpy's. My brush,
above me all the time, dribbles paint
so my face makes a fine floor for droppings!
My haunches are grinding into my guts,
my poor ass strains to work as a counterweight,
every gesture I make is blind and aimless.
My skin hangs loose below me, my spine's
all knotted from folding over itself.
I'm bent taut as a Syrian bow.
Because I'm stuck like this, my thoughts
are crazy, perfidious tripe:
anyone shoots badly through a crooked blowpipe.
My painting is dead.
Defend it for me, Giovanni, protect my honor.
I am not in the right place—I am not a painter.

[Arshes Nei]

i honestly cant believe this forum sometimes.
elwell, did you really just "offer" to ban that guy for having an different opinion?

No he did not. (Like Star Eater said)

youre not allowed to be new, or to ask questions, or to ask for specific answers.

of course youre going to get what we as people have been doing it for years know are more "stupid" questions...but "stop whining start working" isnt the ultimate answer and that shit really does need to change.

No, you're allowed to ask questions, but there are a lot of posts that probably answered your question already. Try at least taking the time to look for them and then ask.

I've seen several people come on with a post and say "I know this has been probably asked before, but I can't find it" and people help out. It's when people jump on and ask first without research people get frustrated.

It's also frustrating that people think there's some best method because this forum is apparently chalk full of artists trying to hide information because their jobs are in danger, if they showed you a super cool brush in Photoshop, or if you hold your pencil this way, study Loomis in a particular way.

When people keep asking and posting no results, people get frustrated. I post few question threads, because I'm too busy trying to apply the information that's already there. It's a lot of information, and trying to squish that time with other responsibilities is a lot. So I gotta wonder how a lot of artists have the time to ask so much when the ratio of practicing to "good result" is very high?

http://www.marcscheff.com/the-truth-...ust-takes-time


http://www.marcscheff.com/the-truth-...great-painting

[alesoun]

We'd better batten down the hatches and get ready for lots of "How do I?" threads. College starts soon, and we're asked the same questions every year at this time, usually without examples of their work.

[Star Eater]

We'd better batten down the hatches and get ready for lots of "How do I?" threads. College starts soon, and we're asked the same questions every year at this time, usually without examples of their work.

Heh true, also a fun time to be on the forums.
Contrary to some opinions, I love meeting new members.

[Elwell]

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Leave the dude alone and he'll figure it out."
-- Louis CK

"As soon as somebody asks you for advice, they're not going to do it. The people who are going to do it are already doing it. Those people, they don't hand you their demo, they don't tell you about their nonexistent project, they just do it."
-- Rob Zombie

[JeffX99]

"As soon as somebody asks you for advice, they're not going to do it. The people who are going to do it are already doing it. Those people, they don't hand you their demo, they don't tell you about their nonexistent project, they just do it."
-- Rob Zombie

So yeah, as expected people in music have to deal with it as well.

[vineris]

of course youre going to get what we as people have been doing it for years know are more "stupid" questions...but "stop whining start working" isnt the ultimate answer and that shit really does need to change.

Easy for you to say when you hardly do anything to change it. You had like... two helpful posts to other people in the last 25. How about if instead of you wasting your time on self-abuse you be the change that you want to see? Start writing those informative helpful forum posts which will turn a newbie's life around. Do a few hundred of those.

I am being totally serious. If you are not helping to solve the problem then you are adding to it.

[QueenGwenevere]

Why I most of my questions are about "How to get started" ; I am professionally Software Engineer, so typically My mind is tuned on finding a specific algorithm to solve a problem.

Ah, yes, that'll do it... I've seen a number of people transitioning from tech to art who experience the same exact problem.

Learning art can be tricky because there is no one "right" way to learn it, and no single path that will get you where you want to go. There's a million different approaches to teaching and learning art, and different ways end up working for different people. This can be confusing to people who are used to things being "right" or "wrong".

At the end of the day, the best way to really learn art is to dive right in and do it, forget about "right and wrong" for a while, make mistakes, make a mess, try things, screw everything up and try again.

It's like learning to ride a bike... You could read a hundred books on How to Ride a Bike, but you'll never be able to actually ride it until you get on the damn bike and ride, and fall down a few hundred times, and hit a few trees, and skin your knees and get covered with mud and gravel and grease.

[JeffX99]

"Art" creation is an activity...the learning is to be found in the doing.

[Arshes Nei]

"Art" creation is an activity...the learning is to be found in the doing.

I think that applies to a lot of activities honestly. Even scientific ones...

Say a guy wants to get better at 3 pointers and he's got a coach. Let's say for every shot that guy tries to make he talks to his coach about how to improve the shot for 30 minutes because he's worried about getting it right and the quickest method. It takes 2 minutes to probably make the shot. Now start multiplying that.

For every 3 shots, 6 minutes and 90 minutes of talking. Do you see how ridiculous that is?

I wish people would actually sit down and time themselves from "asking and browsing questions on the forums" vs practice time.

[Shorinji_Knight]

i honestly cant believe this forum sometimes.
elwell, did you really just "offer" to ban that guy for having an different opinion?

its like, some self taught artist who started on here told everybody i just worked hard! thats the secret. and if you dont completely just blindly unwaveringly with no question believe in that asinine montra youre an outsider.

youre not allowed to be new, or to ask questions, or to ask for specific answers.

of course youre going to get what we as people have been doing it for years know are more "stupid" questions...but "stop whining start working" isnt the ultimate answer and that shit really does need to change.

This coming from a guy who started 17 threads in the art discussion forum asking for specific answers. I just perused each of them and all I saw was helpful advice given. Although a couple of times you snapped at people for not knowing exactly what you were asking for.

[Black Spot]

CA.org seems to put a huge effort in thwarting this, by having tons of stickies and sub-forums. But as a new comer, most people get the impression they are supposed to ask questions. But, yeah, I learned years ago to read the "read this if new to this forum" Most forums have this sticky. Now I'm gonna crawl back in my hole, because I just asked a dumb question a few minutes ago.

Don't. We don't actually bite - mostly. I know a lot of the members can be sarcastic, including me, but someone will always answer the question.

The main reason I like CA is because it's not precious about trampling on one's feelings. The rude replies are the quickest way to bring you up short and make you think about what you actually asked and was it really necessary.

Now how do I start learning how to draw again? Please use one syllable words for your answer - I'm a bit thick you know.

[NajamQ]

Don't. We don't actually bite - mostly. I know a lot of the members can be sarcastic, including me, but someone will always answer the question.

The main reason I like CA is because it's not precious about trampling on one's feelings. The rude replies are the quickest way to bring you up short and make you think about what you actually asked and was it really necessary.

Now how do I start learning how to draw again? Please use one syllable words for your answer - I'm a bit thick you know.

Yes, someone always answers the question, and with good explanations too. But is it necessary to be rude? As I said earlier, English is not primary language for most the members and sometimes they take a light humor as offense. Cultural difference may be.

[Star Eater]

I feel like we are going in circles.

Its best to learn now what to take as offense and what to shrug off. Along
with all the basic foundations, a necessary part of this industry is having a thick
skin. Besides, the language barrier does not fly anymore. It's only a minority
of members that throw a hissy fit when people don't cater to their sensitive
delicate emotions and stroke their ego.

Suck it up.

[TNiznet]

very nice thread =D

Alright, I don't want to come off as being pretentious because I know for a fact that I am no better than anyone here in terms of expertise or skill level. The best advice I was ever given and I believe is the answer to most question to ramblings and productivity is simply "have fun". The problem manifests when art starts to become a chore, where you must study this, do that, I have to be better at this and that. You always end up with negitive vibes in your mentality where you lose sight of the fun or good over the bad. You should always enjoy your'self in the process of what ever you do and not contemplate the tediousness which inherently makes you lazy in the end.

Enjoying my self while doing studies, paintings or simply doodling takes me away for hours without even knowing. I enjoy this feeling and wouldn't trade it for anything...if that's possible....

[Arshes Nei]

Yes, someone always answers the question, and with good explanations too. But is it necessary to be rude? As I said earlier, English is not primary language for most the members and sometimes they take a light humor as offense. Cultural difference may be.

The more you reply, the more I want to close this thread. You still haven't posted art, but spend more time countering replies when the same things have been stated since you have decided to use this forum. You've been here for years, then it is no longer an excuse.

Stop it - stop replying, go post art.

If not for the fact this is Xopher's thread it would have been closed by now. You're spamming with arguments and if you're here to work on art, work on art.