Reference dilemma

[Thera Dratara]

So I want to make this comic. Thus I want to make sure my art is good enough for people to enjoy the comic. Thus I'm polishing out my anatomy, working on my colouring and lining etc.

I have one major weakness: I'm terrible at representing faces in a 3dimensional space. I can represent other types of objects just fine. I can represent bodies themselves also just fine. Hands are a little more difficult.

Because I want the characters to have consistent facial features, I decided to solve two problems in one go and model their faces in 3d.(I'm using the two facial expressions books by mark simons to double check the accuracy of the model)

example here with horrid paint-over next to it.
(The paintover was just a test, I'll be doing the actual drawing traditionally and thus won't be tracing or painting-over)

When I presented this in a different forum(focused on comic making) I was told that using a 3d model as reference is bad because in the end it's a 2d image and would only be a crutch. Instead, I'm supossed to learn to draw real 3d(as in life drawing).

I'm, confused now.

Is using 2d reference bad?
Because from what I understand the thing that makes life-drawing so difficult is because we sample the real world from two places(our two eyes) the results being mixed by our brain giving us the depth of real-life.
And before someone mentions the peculiarities of real-world perspective: most photo's are made with a different lens and are actually different from how our eyes perceive it as well. So by that person's logic using any kind of non-RL reference is a crutch?

And I don't know. I know too little about the subject. Any opinions?

PS. I'm not doubting the value of model drawing classes, and would love taking them, I just don't have the money, and am trying to come up with alternatives.

[Psychotime]

Reference from life will always be better than anything else.

Photo reference isn't bad at all, but it has it's limits.

PS. I'm not doubting the value of model drawing classes, and would love taking them, I just don't have the money, and am trying to come up with alternatives.

If you live in the US or Canada, this website can be useful to find life drawing groups that meet up weekly or so. Just make sure you double check any of the listings to make sure they're still active and what their prices are, whatever.

A group is gonna be alot different than a class: No instruction, everyone's working at their own pace, and you only have to pitch in for the model's services for for the allotted time. Most I've ever payed for one session with a group was $12 or so.

http://www.artmodelbook.com/figure-d...-directory.htm

[Thera Dratara]

Thanks, but I live in the Netherlands
Even better, I live in the middle of nowhere in the Netherlands.

[Psychotime]

Sorry about that.

[dpaint]

Make a maquette of some characters out of sculpey or clay. That's what guys like Jim Gurney and Bernie Wrightson do. Top is Gurney's Dinotopia Bottom is Wrightson's Frankenstein.

[Thera Dratara]

Ah yes, I could try that!

I think I have some fimo lying around(a fine baking type clay) They will be very small models though

[Star Eater]

Fimo is a good equivalent to sculpey.

Some tips that will make your sculpting easier:

Be sure to build a basic armature or skeleton. Very easy once
you get the hang of it. A bit of a pain, but essential for keeping
your sculpture together and stable. Will save you so many
headaches.

Here's instructions for miniature ones. Just increase the scale:
http://www.stormthecastle.com/miniat...niatures-3.htm

All you need are pliars, wire cutters and some bendable wire. I'd also
suggest eye protection. It is really not as complicated as it sounds, I
promise, but it will help the process immensely.

Also, once your armature is built, there is no need to use all your fimo
filling in the model. Use tinfoil. It makes for great stuffing. Wrap it
around the skeleton and put the clay on top of it. Will save you cash
and clay.

Like all art, your first few attempts may not turn out as you want
but just persevere. Just try get the basic forms down to see how
light plays on them and take it from there.

I want to live in the Netherlands...

[stabby2486]

If you're learning to sculpt just to make reference for your 2d art, sculpting with clay might be better since it's realistically lit automatically. But since I'm assuming you're going for a graphic style with your comic, sculpting digitally is just fine if you're using it to keep facial proportions consistent. And the fact that you've actually built the model should compensate for the fact you're looking at it through a 2d screen. But I'd focus on sculpting in clay first since a lot of beginners get too caught up in technical stuff like topology and forget about form, while with clay, form is the only thing you're thinking about. Also, avoid smoothing the crap out of your models, you want to have a variety of soft and hard edges.

[Elwell]

You should probably read this thread. So should the people on that other forum, for that matter.