Cintiq 22HD

[sigmadog]

Thanks, Elsevilla.

Right now I'm wondering whether the Cintiq will boost the quality and speed of my work. A couple of points:

• I've been using the Intuos line for so long it's almost second-nature for me to not have that eye/hand connection.
  
  
• On the other hand, whenever I'm drawing/sketching with traditional tools (pen, graphite, etc.) the work seems better; the lines are more natural, and I can capture the essence of what I'm striving for much quicker.

So what makes my traditional work better?

Is it:

1. My affinity/skill with traditional tools allows me to achieve better results, or
   
   
2. The lack of eye/hand connection with the Intuos results in slower, less vibrant work.

I suspect the answer is a little of both. Which brings up the second question: If I buy the 22HD, will the cost be justified by a comparable improvement in speed/quality?

I don't know at this point. Actually trying one is important, then, to provide me with more information to help make my decision. Even with that experience, if I decide to buy it will be in large measure based on a guess that it will help. I'm just trying to make that guess less of a risk, if you get my meaning...

To that end I'm contacting a couple art professors I know in the hopes that they will have access to (or know someone who uses) one of these magical tools. Even if it's not the 22HD, any one of the other Cintiqs would surely help. Hopefully, they will be able to help me.

I'm rambling... I better get back to work.

[James Thornton]

You will "hit" some strokes on a cintiq that you won't on a tablet, can't really describe it. Not going to make your work drastically better, if at all, but you'll undo less. I would preach the cintiq gospel all day, but their display standards are gutter.

[philofmars]

I don't know at this point. Actually trying one is important, then, to provide me with more information to help make my decision. Even with that experience, if I decide to buy it will be in large measure based on a guess that it will help. I'm just trying to make that guess less of a risk, if you get my meaning...

Right there with you. Altho, waiting never hurts. Tech just gets better and better. I found that my frye electronics has 12" cintiqs and I was so close to buying one to try, and returning it. but the 15 percent restock kills me. 150 bucks for the privlege of trying one out! OW, but then, if it's not what I think it should be... might be worth it to find out that way than the 2 grand way.
Maybe we could find a place that had a lenient return policy. I am sure you can download the drivers so the software would stay uninstalled and you'd just be trying the hardware.
Or you could just buy one and let me know... go ahead, do it!

[sigmadog]

Or you could just buy one and let me know... go ahead, do it!

It's always funner to spend other people's money... so you go first.

[Arshes Nei]

Yeah the best way to try one is finding out if Wacom is at a convention. Wacom wasn't at a convention I go to this year, but Manga Studio had a 24HD out.

The problem though is I wanted to see how it performed in other programs. I got kinda frustrated too because usually the computers (Wacom did come a different year and got to try out other models) they brought kinda felt ...well substandard or had issues when you wanted to actually try the device. It takes away from the experience.

[Elsevilla]

It's always funner to spend other people's money... so you go first.

The cintiq improves speed a bit, you can do long strokes without any doubt, but still lack a bit of texture in the glass, so you will always feel alien, not the same as drawing on paper.

But i used to not like their screen that much, sucks when your second monitor looks better than the cintiq quality.

But i was really surprised how good the 22hd screen looks compared to cintiqs 24hd.

The blacks looks really dark, on my cintiq they look like 80% dark gray, but in that cintiq looked like 96% dark.


I was in love at first sight with that cintiq that didnt even look at 24 hds, she was the prettiest girl at the wacoms bar that night.


Like the first time you got trouble to get used to the intuos tablets, you will struggle a bit in learning curve with a cintiq like 3 days to get use to, in my case was a month because any digital coloring software was alien to me, but once you pass that sweet spot, you will not want to return to intuos, unless you want to be in a different room besides your studio.


So i recommend you to take the risk Sigma dog, if it can improve your art why not?, the world its getting really competitive this days.

And if you dont like it, you can resell it to me cheaper, MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH the true nature of the advice comes to the light.

[sigmadog]

And if you dont like it, you can resell it to me cheaper, MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH the true nature of the advice comes to the light.

You had me until the evil laughter gave you away.

[philofmars]

You had me until the evil laughter gave you away.

It always does...

[sigmadog]

Okay. I've decided I'm going to take the plunge and purchase a new Cintiq 22HD. I have no real opportunity to test drive it, but I've got lots of illustration work coming up in September. I've got the money, but as yet I don't have the desk space, so I first need to build myself a bigger desk. Stay tuned. This will take a couple weeks and should resemble something like this: Work. Cabinetry. Work. Work. Beer. Work. Cabinetry. Beer. Work. Cabinetry. ETC.

I'll report back when I have something interesting to say. In the mean time, thanks for all your helpful advice.

-Steve, aka sigmadog

[philofmars]

This will take a couple weeks and should resemble something like this: Work. Cabinetry. Work. Work. Beer. Work. Cabinetry. Beer. Work. Cabinetry. ETC.

I have found that if you combine the work and the beer, it goes a little quicker.
I built my desk to fit a 22" CRT and now that I have an LCD I have buckets of room. But I may have to move it around to fit a cintiq. That is after my guinea pig, I mean friend sigma, gets one and reports back to us. Like you, I may have to just bite it and buy one. The reports coming in are so good. and you know, if you hold onto more than 2 grand, something happens like your car bursts into flames or the dryer jumps thru a wall just to suck the money out of your wallet.

400 bucks in oak. Couldn't buy a desk like that for triple the money.
Yes that's a 22" monitor, the same size as a cintiq 22! It is dwarfed in there! I have room to put them side by side. I think I may ditch the hutches and build some shelves so I can move monitors around easier. Btw: the surface on the right has a piano hinge lid and the scanner is down there. Great storage and handy. Don't mock my boom box.

[sigmadog]

That's a great set up, Philofmars. Ingenious idea for storing the scanner! I'll have to consider something like that, since I need the scanner occasionally, but not enough to justify wasted desk space.

I'm currently running two 23" Apple Cinema Displays off my Mac Pro. They fit just fine, but it'll be too tight once I add the Cintiq.

By the way, with my ATI 5770 graphic card, I have two mini-Display Ports, and one DVI port, but in order to run three monitors I need to buy two Mini-DP to DVI Active Adapters (about $32 each). The adapters sold by Apple are passive and don't work for a three monitor configuration - they need to be "active" adapters. I mention this as a side note in case anyone out there has a similar setup.

Having three monitors may seem like overkill, but I do a lot of graphic design work and the extra screen real estate is important for that, and I'm not sure how the Cintiq would fit into that workflow. With the Cintiq, I will be creating, essentially, a separate work-space devoted to illustration.

I'm excited about the prospects of getting this done, and you've inspired me to work on something interesting for the desk.

-Steve

[philofmars]

By the way, with my ATI 5770 graphic card, I have two mini-Display Ports, and one DVI port, but in order to run three monitors I need to buy two Mini-DP to DVI Active Adapters (about $32 each). The adapters sold by Apple are passive and don't work for a three monitor configuration - they need to be "active" adapters. I mention this as a side note in case anyone out there has a similar setup.

Keep me in the loop on how the hook up goes. I hadn't thought about that... I'd have to do the same thing. I wouldn't want to give up my second monitor as I do a lot of layout and need it for palettes. I crawled down there and I just have the one 5770 ati also, with both monitors plugged into it. Where are you getting those mini ones that cheap?
And where will I put the cintiq!!! Dang, now you've got me thinking too... I may have to rearrange the desk sooner than I thought. Altho I had been thinking about moving it so the chair back is against the wall the desk is on, with some shelving and a sculpting station behind me. This may open that chance up.

BTW: if you buy it thru macamall, you can get 4yr extra warranty for the cintiq for 200 bucks (they replace it without shipping to germany) and free shipping.

[sigmadog]

Keep me in the loop on how the hook up goes.

You bet.

Where are you getting those mini ones that cheap?

Amazon. They are actually about $33 each.

I was wondering how the 5770 would drive three monitors, so I did a bit of research and discovered the issue with "passive" versus "active" adapters. In the reviews on the Amazon link, there is someone with the exact same issue (setting up three monitors on a Mac Pro with ATI 5770). Luckily I saw that. I immediately ordered two adapters. They'll be here next week, but the Cintiq won't be ordered for a while yet.

Thanks for the MacMall tip. That sounds like it might be a good idea with this piece of hardware.

[philofmars]

Amazon. They are actually about $33 each.

Thanks, I have an apple mini and vga cords going on back there right now. I would have been at my wits end figuring that mess out! I'll order them tonight.

[oferk]

HI, I'm also thinking of getting one. I don't have much space, and thats the main reason Im not getting the 24. I don't know why, but their prices are pretty close here. I will mount the 22hd on an ergortron LX arm. It is very mobile and I think it can work better then the stand. And I already have it anyway.
It will take me sometime to saveup for it, but it will happen in the near future I hope.
Good luck with yours!

[Malifer]

you guys will have to post your setups in the setups thread. There is no 22HD's there and just one 24HD

[philofmars]

you guys will have to post your setups in the setups thread. There is no 22HD's there and just one 24HD

I stay out of there, it makes me weep with envy at some of the money people must have.

[sigmadog]

you guys will have to post your setups in the setups thread. There is no 22HD's there and just one 24HD

I usually shy away from those kind of threads, mainly because my workspace is embarrassingly messy.

[philofmars]

I usually shy away from those kind of threads, mainly because my workspace is embarrassingly messy.

Ohhhhh yeah. I took that pic of my desk shortly after i set it up, before the destruction hit. Right now, there is space to put my keyboard, that's it, the surfaces are all covered. LOL! And I want a cintiq on here too? har har har.

[PoromC]

So I got this email from a rep at the US branch of Viewsonic regarding their Digitizer displays VDD2250 and VDD3210:

"Unfortunately, these models will not be available in August and have no ETA at present. You should check with local sales team to confirm the ETA in Europe. Thank you!"

I haven't done so yet, but I recon I will get the same response from the European side. I haven't read anything about these monitors since early June. Anyone else know what's up, or what to expect?

[rbblue]

Hi

see if a DVI to HDMI adapter would work and it does!

I'd REALLY appreciate it if you could tell us exactly which DVI to HDMI converter worked for you as lots of people have posted that converters haven't worked for them...

Thanks!

[rbblue]

I went ahead and bought a Steren HDMI male to DVI-D male elite cable and it seems to work great. Thanks for your original post.

[andya147]

for the money they should have better screens ,wacom should concentrate on producing a special screen that feels like paper ,but at the end of the day to me its all about profit margins...i cant stand the coating that grainy look.

[_Urchin_]

hi everyone, i recently purchased a 22hd from the u.s wacom website and it was delivered to my house yesterday. i put up an unboxing video on yt for those interested

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEd0RdwslGE&hd=1

i actually ran into a slight problem after unpacking everything from the box. Wacom did not supply a DVI to VGA adapter cable. My desktop videocard blew up several months ago so I'm forced to use my laptop which only has VGA and hdmi ports. I have some good news, the 22HD is HDMI compatible. I couldn't find any answers on the internet so I was forced to go ahead and test the 22HD to see if a DVI to HDMI adapter would work and it does! Obviously this would not have been possible if all the cables were hardwired into the Cintiq but since the 22HD was made so that all the wiring is easily replaceable by simply opening up the back panel, I attached the dvi to hdmi adaptor into the dvi port and used my hdmi cable to hook it up to my laptop.

btw, this is my first cintiq (almost bought a 21UX 3 weeks ago), was an intuos 3 for the past 5 years.

I've just purchased a 22, and also only have hdmi ports. I bought a small dvi-I dual link to hdmi adapter, to plug the existing cord into my dock. I can't get the thing working and I've been tearing my hair out troubleshooting. You mentioned that you had to open the case...I don't know if this is a silly question or not, but what is the difference between putting an adapter at the end of the existing cable, and opening the beastie up and putting the adapter there?

[jeffgeorge]

I also just bought a 22hd cintiq and it arrived last Friday. I am hooking it up to a powerful laptop that has a VGA import. Over the weekend I went to a couple computer supply stores to get a DVI to VGA adapter. When i connected the adapter to the end of the DVI cable my cintiq says no signal going to sleep. My computer reads that the cintiq is connected and the pen works on my computer screen when the usb port is connected, however i can not get video on my cintiqs screen. i bought a few more DVI adapters and asked if they would work with DVI-I and they assured me they would but they did not. Should Try to hook it up with HDMI? or should i try to open up the back and try to find a DVI to VGA cable instead of the adapter. I use the 21UX at work and love it and have been saving up for the 22hd for months. All weekend it has been sitting on my desk staring at me telepathically asking me "why cant you draw in me jeff?" and all i can respond is "i dont know cintiq, i just dont know". i have also installed/uninstalled/reinstalled multiple drivers but to no effect. Please help!!
Thank you

[Laurentius]

I've just purchased a 22, and also only have hdmi ports. I bought a small dvi-I dual link to hdmi adapter, to plug the existing cord into my dock. I can't get the thing working and I've been tearing my hair out troubleshooting. You mentioned that you had to open the case...I don't know if this is a silly question or not, but what is the difference between putting an adapter at the end of the existing cable, and opening the beastie up and putting the adapter there?

IIRC hdmi and the source are constantly handshaking with each other and a simple adapter messing with the signal throws that off. I got a DVI to HDMI cable and it works.

I have a new problem though. My laptop randomly craps out on me when I have the drivers installed and I have no reason why. I have a core i7 in it with 16 GB of ram so my computer is no slouch. Does anyone have this problem?

[Qichar]

I also just bought a 22hd cintiq and it arrived last Friday. I am hooking it up to a powerful laptop that has a VGA import. Over the weekend I went to a couple computer supply stores to get a DVI to VGA adapter. When i connected the adapter to the end of the DVI cable my cintiq says no signal going to sleep. My computer reads that the cintiq is connected and the pen works on my computer screen when the usb port is connected, however i can not get video on my cintiqs screen. i bought a few more DVI adapters and asked if they would work with DVI-I and they assured me they would but they did not. Should Try to hook it up with HDMI? or should i try to open up the back and try to find a DVI to VGA cable instead of the adapter. I use the 21UX at work and love it and have been saving up for the 22hd for months. All weekend it has been sitting on my desk staring at me telepathically asking me "why cant you draw in me jeff?" and all i can respond is "i dont know cintiq, i just dont know". i have also installed/uninstalled/reinstalled multiple drivers but to no effect. Please help!!
Thank you

Does your laptop work with other LCD monitors that have DVI input, or is your problem specific to the Cintiq?

[Qichar]

Right now I'm wondering whether the Cintiq will boost the quality and speed of my work. A couple of points:

I just recieved my Cintiq 22HD. I had many questions about it but actually I've been using these kind of devices for years now. I am an amateur concept artist and my fiance is a 3D modeler. I purchased a Cintiq 21 (the 3:4 ratio device) and I loved working with it. However, she's actually still in school for 3D modeling and she's on it all the time--since I bought it for her I decided I needed my own device. I'm sorry if I'm saying obvious things to pros on this forums; I'm just an amateur when it comes to digital art. I'm a professional commercial software developer by trade, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I keep seeing questions about these expensive devices so I thought I'd write a review of the ones I've got.

Comparison to traditional media:
My favorite media prior to using tablets was charcoal and pencil. I also love oil paints but I hate the cleanup, and I hate how long it took to mix colors. Also, mixing colors is a skill that takes quite a long time to develop. If you're used to mixing paints and getting exactly the color you want, then this won't be a serious upgrade for you. However, I found that using the Cintiq you can just point at the color you want and instantly have it available. The difference in time for producing color art is night and day for me, and actually I feel that using the Cintiq is more color-true than trying to paint something and then scan it with a digital camera. The drawing surface takes getting used to. The surface of a Cintiq is halfway between plastic and glass. It's smooth like glass, and it obviously IS a kind of glass, but it's slightly less reflective and more "tacky" than say, a window or a bottle. It's much smoother than paper, so if you were hoping for actual texture I would say there is none. Finally, there is a very slight screen lag. This might just be unavoidable, but there is a very slight lag between where the physical pen is and where the cursor is. This is less noticable with better (faster) PCs, but I'm not sure there's any way to get rid of it entirely. After getting used to it, I don't even notice it anymore.

After using the Cintiq, I would say it's not better or worse but just... different. I still prefer actual media like pencils and paint because I cannot replace their tactile experience. I think of the Cintiq as a different kind of media, one where there is simply no setup time, no construction of physical canvases, no cutting a new piece of paper, no gesso, no messy cleanup, no paint mixing, pencil sharpening, sweeping of floors, and most importantly, no risk to my health because of fumes of things like paint thinner. And to be honest, I really loved working with the Cintiq after getting used to it.

To summarize: I consider the Cintiq to be a different tool than pencil or traditional oil paints. It's much faster to produce illustrations and paintings with it if what I really want is concept art for computer games or photo editing for web sites. It won't make you more talented, it won't improve your illustration abilty, but it WILL reduce the time it takes for you to produce illustrations if you like working with computers like I do. One difference however is eye strain. If you cannot stare at a computer screen for long periods of time, the Cintiq might not be for you. Anti-glare screen protectors can help a little with that.

Comparison to a small laptop (also with a screen by Wacom)
Before I bit the bullet and purchased my first Cintiq, I had a much smaller tablet PC made by HP--a tx 2500. I later found out that the tablet itself (indeed, it seems all tablets worth trying) has a screen made by Wacom. I found that the tablet is nice and portable, but I didn't like the PC that was running it (just like I don't like most laptops). I am used to building my own PCs, and I was disappointed by the video performance of my laptop tablet PC. I didn't like the graphics card strength for 3D, I didn't like the heat the unit produced (in my lap!), and I didn't like the (very) slight lag when drawing with it. Maybe it's because I build my own rigs, but I experience no noticable drawing lag with my Cintiq. I am currently writing this review on my home PC connected to my Cintiq 22HD--it's got an Intel i7 first gen quad core running @ 2.67 GHz and only 6 GB of RAM. Graphics card = GTX 580--the graphics card is easily the most important piece of hardware to spend money on if you're going to do anything in 3D modeling, UDK, or something similar. Back to the tablet--I did eventually love drawing on it, and it was this experience that eventually led me to purchase the Cintiq 21UX. The glass surface of the tablet screen is also smoother than the one on my Cintiq. It's a decidedly different experience. If you got a tablet PC and you are wondering if the experience is the same, well, for me it's quite different. I find that the Cintiq is more accurate (easier to calibrate so the cursor appears almost always directly under the pen), less laggy, and produces much more accurate color than my portable tablet. Obviously, the larger Cintiqs I own are significantly larger than my 12" tablet PC display. I don't own the 12" Cintiq so I don't know what that's like. If you are even remotely considering professional digital concept illustration, I would suggest skipping the tablet entirely. It's not really a savings in money but rather a different tool entirely.


Comparison of the 22HD with the 21UX and other monitors

Image and color
Right off the bat I notice some differences. The 21UX was dimmer. The 22HD is almost as bright as my LED 22" display by Samsung. The contrast is great, and the blacks are deeper, but only slightly deeper than the 22HD. I find the color accuracy is better on the 22HD than my Samsung--way better. The Samsung had a very cold, blue-bias. I find the Cintiqs to be warmer by comparison. This may just be personal preference, but I feel the 21UX has very slightly better color accuracy than the 22HD, but I actually prefer the brightness and color reproduction of the 22HD. (Again, I'm just an amateur and this is only my opinion). I think the trade-off between screen qualities is worth it for me. One final thing worth noting: the Cintiqs have a "grainy" feeling about them. It seems the digitizer is a thin layer of material embedded into the screen to sense where the pen is, and that layer makes images very slightly blurry or grainy. It's as if there's a film between you and the actual screen. After a little while, I don't notice the effect anymore, but when you look at a normal LCD monitor and then back to the Cintiq it's quite noticable. Again, I don't mind, but some people might be put off by this initially.

Screen size
My biggest complaint about the 22HD is the screen size. The 21UX feels a lot bigger. In terms of surface area, the 1600x1200 21UX has a significantly larger drawing surface than the 1920x1080 22HD because of the aspect ratio. One of the things that bothers me about the 22HD is that it's not really 22" diagonally--it's actually barely 21.5". This is made clear in the specs but there is simply a wider black glass border on the 22HD vs. the 21UX. If you prefer 4:3 ratio, obviously don't get the 22HD. If you play computer games, watch movies, and don't want to keep swapping out your video output or just lack desk space, you might want to splurge on a 16:9 ratio device like the 22HD. The 22HD has a slightly rubbery feel on the non-screen portion of the device, vs. a more standard smoother plastic feel of the 21 UX. The drawing surfaces are very similar--both feel like tactile glass which I described earlier.

Physical device
Cintiqs are heavy, beautiful devices. I realize this is subjective, but after getting the 21UX and drawing on it for a few days I was in love with it. This is not an objective review by any means and I suppose I'm not even trying for that. These units don't feel cheap and they won't break easily. There are lots of buttons on both sides of the screen on both Cintiqs, and these are easy to map to, say, Photoshop actions. In particular, there is a slidy thing behind the screen on both sides that you can map to changing brush size--I highly recommend you do so! It saves TONS of time not having to move the cursor to the brush size tool in Photoshop.

After years of use without a screen protector, I don't have any scratches or dead pixels on the 21UX. However, I'll admit that I baby the thing. I don't press hard and I adjusted the pressure sensitivity options so that I can get the deepest value without pressing too hard on the screen. I prefer to work that way, anyway. My biggest complaint working with media like charcoal was that getting actual black value requires pressing into the paper; I just don't like it, and when I switch to oil paint this was a huge relief to be able to get darkest value without any difference in motion.

I'll admit I'm a bit concerned about all the reviews that indicate scratches on the surface of their Cintiqs and dead pixels that occur after time. I don't have either, and I've owned the 21UX for about 2 years now. I've only owned the 22 HD for about a week. I'm planning on buying a screen protector (a piece of plastic) to put on my 22HD--can anyone recommend a good one?


Summary (TLDR)
Overall, I highly recommend the Cintiq 22HD and the Cintiq 21UX. I realize they are very expensive, and I can't tell anyone what fits in their budget. I wouldn't want to buy a used one due to the risk of scratches and dead pixels; both my units have neither and I wouldn't be able to tolerate them. But having owned the 21UX for some time now, I wouldn't know how to go back. It takes getting used to, and maybe it's not for everyone. For me, it allows me to produce illustrations quickly, and it's just so much darned fun to draw on after you get used to it. It didn't increase my technical skills on day one, but eventually with patience I think it is like a massive upgrade to Photoshop itself (or ArtRage, for that matter). If you use Photoshop as your main drawing tool, and you have a non-screen enabled tablet like the Intuous, well, I can tell you the Cintiq is an incredible step up. I can draw on a tablet and look at a separate screen but I much, much prefer working on the Cintiq.

[Jizu]

Well ive bought my 22HD like 2 month ago now and there are really a lot things i like and some i dislike...

Like
1. The colors and contrast are brilliant
2. The feeling of drawing is so much better then intuos
3. It is not getting that hot and its materials are really well
4. The zoomstripes on the Back are perfectly placed to me
5. Changing the cables on the back is really easy
6. The lag of the pen is really a minimum, nearly no lag

Dislike
1. The screen got that milky surface .. well its really hard to see but its there ..
2. The buttons dont got leds for icons .. (why not put this nice feature in?)
3. Since the screen is behind a really big surface, the pen and the pointer got some space between them...

But over all i really love this thing and i wouldnt use my intous 5 again (only when im out)

Let me know if i can record some videos for you guys if you want to see something of this product.

[Griffonnage]

You said the 22HD has some king of "grey" under the screen, is that annoying for color job ? Is this really usefull when working with bright environment ?