Does learning to "see" simply come with time/practice of drawing from observation?

[Star Eater]

Just on that, Titan Publishers are set to have the remaining Loomis books
(Fun with a Pencil) out by 2013.

But as Armand and I chatted about recently, it will be interesting to see if
they make any edits regarding some of the content....

[bcarman]

More over, while you draw, you usually think about images, you talk to yourself, so the frontal lobe (which is where the 99% of the "thinking" happens) is deeply involved, and if you aren't just thinking about images, but you actually speak to yourself in your head, then the language area is in the left hemisphere is involved.

This is really interesting. At certain points while drawing I only feel like I've reached "my place" when I turn all this extraneous noise off. I teach my students to get to a place, kind of like the zone for athletes, where everything is a purely visual as possible.

There are other stages where noise in the background helps me stay in an intense state for repetitive work etc. I've often thought that the background noise is helping me drown out the other voices in my brain. Interesting.

[dpaint]

Just on that, Titan Publishers are set to have the remaining Loomis books
(Fun with a Pencil) out by 2013.

But as Armand and I chatted about recently, it will be interesting to see if
they make any edits regarding some of the content....

By the way I wrote to them about 3 dimensional drawing, the version of Successful Drawing revised by Loomis himself and so far they have not responded.

I'm of two minds on this since I want the books to be financially successful for Titan but damn it print the right versions. Its obviously someone who could give a shit not doing due diligence on the research.

[Star Eater]

By the way I wrote to them about 3 dimensional drawing, the version of Successful Drawing revised by Loomis himself and so far they have not responded.

I'm of two minds on this since I want the books to be financially successful for Titan but damn it print the right versions. Its obviously someone who could give a shit not doing due diligence on the research.

Yeah, I was going to bump that thread and ask if you had heard, but
I figured you would have told us if you did.

The alternative would be to try one of the other addresses...but I get
the feeling that would also just be spinning your wheels. It is definitely
part of the Loomis collection. I'll drop them a mail as well for what it's worth.
Perhaps other interested parties could do the same.

[MarkSturm]

Just on that, Titan Publishers are set to have the remaining Loomis books
(Fun with a Pencil) out by 2013.

But as Armand and I chatted about recently, it will be interesting to see if
they make any edits regarding some of the content....

What's wrong with the content? I have most of Loomis' books in PDF (naughty, I know) and am slowly collecting the ones I have been reading (gotta love bookdepository).

And how did this turn into another Betty Edwards thread? >.<

[Elwell]

What's wrong with the content?

pp. 84-85 in Fun with a Pencil could be an issue.

[bish0p2004]

pp. 84-85 in Fun with a Pencil could be an issue.

Granted, but it was the time period....the same with a lot of Frazetta's work.

Personally, I'm not offended by it and I'd rather have the drawings in than out.

[littlebones]

pp. 84-85 in Fun with a Pencil could be an issue.

"Now let's mix up the races!"

No, Loomis, noooo!

[Arshes Nei]

They kept the "Negroid" around in Hogarth's books...so who knows... but this one is more than one so I'm sure there will be some "fun" there.

[Psychotime]

This came to mind.

[dpaint]

Could be worse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vaFTWzw_x8

I'm just sayin'

[Star Eater]

This came to mind.

That looks like a "grey" with a bad wig. Where is that
from?

[Psychotime]

One of those How to Draw Manga books.

This one.

[Arshes Nei]

Could be worse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vaFTWzw_x8

I'm just sayin'

What's wrong with keeping sliced watermelon in your bag, other than it could get messy if you don't saran wrap it?

[bish0p2004]

Could be worse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vaFTWzw_x8

I'm just sayin'

lol...damn

[Star Eater]

That clip ended too soon! I wanted to see what happened next.

[zx52hg]

I didn't know there was a revised version of Successful Drawing by Loomis. Does anyone know what that missing section on perspective covered? I've tried searching on Google, but all I can find is that it was sixteen pages long or something. Aside from that missing content, the reprints are really nice and good quality. They beat the hell out of the old PDF versions floating around on the internet.

[dpaint]

I didn't know there was a revised version of Successful Drawing by Loomis. Does anyone know what that missing section on perspective covered? I've tried searching on Google, but all I can find is that it was sixteen pages long or something.

It shows applications for the methods of perspective in the book. So each page tackles a specific method

Putting Perspective to Work
Your Relationship to What You See (2 pages)
Relation of Horizon and Ground Plane
Building a Picture to Scale
Drawing any object within a block
Repeating units by means of Diagonals
Even Spacing of Units
Spacing on Uneven Ground
Aligning Uprights Along a curve
Using a Scaled Ground Plan
Indicating Time of Day By Shadows
Shadows Of Irregular Forms
Perspective Lines Without Distant Vanishing Points (2 pages)
Scaling a Picture Into Planned Dimensions

[Psychotime]

Could be worse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vaFTWzw_x8

I'm just sayin'

Oh c'mon! No "Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs"? No "Half-Pint Pygmy"? That video is severely lacking.

[Kamber Parrk]

Bert Dodson’s Keys To Drawing and Rudy DeReyna’s How To Draw What You See are both commonly available, cheap, and really good books.

Reading these in conjunction with Edwards would pick up where Edwards leaves off and probably give an intro level learner all the cognitive tools they need to draw—cognitive tools they would need to sharpen and learn to wield efficiently with lots of hard work.

But, I’m not in the business of teaching people how to draw.

And, I still think Loomis tends to take a flying leap into the middle of a lot of intermediate material in his books.

[Qitsune]

Yes I find Loomis has a lot of "Do this simple thing + ??? =success!"

[Star Eater]

Yeah, this well known scan is actually taken directly from 'Fun with a Pencil'

[battlebattle]

Yeah, this well known scan is actually taken directly from 'Fun with a Pencil'

i lol'd

[JeffX99]

Forget the "right brain mode" nonsense and don't try to break the drawing down into patches of light and shadow, it's a dead end.

Learn to draw structurally, instead. Your eye may be "seeing" patches of light and dark, but your brain is seeing the solid form in space. Learn to be aware of that form and reconstruct it on paper. Then your drawing will work.

Not to "re-jack" the thread but...I strongly disagree here arenhaus. Your drawing (or painting) "works" when you get the right mark in the right place with the right edge, value and color. If some construction helps with that, great...but it usually has a great deal more to do with observation and sensitivity (at least when working from life of course).

[sone_one]

Just because I found better books doesn't mean it was gonna kill someone to look at Edwards book if they just started out.

neither would it kill anyone to admit, its a poor choice amongst a variety of great books out there waiting to be read.

actually i dont see your points... whats the purpose of defending something thats quite obviously subpar to other options, that take the same effort to aquire and process?

yes, reading it (i actually did) didnt cripple me... but where the fuck is the relation to producing art and its learning process in that statement?


i dont distrust you its been a stepping stone to where you are at... and a totally justified, beneficial, starting everything off... one at that. but now you know better... why dont you say something else would be better, but rather say "it didnt bite the fingers of my drawing hand off when i tried to open it".

[Arshes Nei]

neither would it kill anyone to admit, its a poor choice amongst a variety of great books out there waiting to be read.

actually i dont see your points... whats the purpose of defending something thats quite obviously subpar to other options, that take the same effort to aquire and process?

yes, reading it (i actually did) didnt cripple me... but where the fuck is the relation to producing art and its learning process in that statement?

I like how people try to make it seem like "This book" will produce a mistake free drawing cycle because it is "more superior"

It's kinda bullshit you know?

As I said it's the easiest to recommend because it's the easiest book for someone to pick up and amazingly without legal problems or most of the time doesn't even cost a dime.

Avoiding or not avoiding a book is not going to stop all the other work it takes anyways. So in the end someone doing something out of Betty Edwards book is not so bad - they could be spending money on shit like Christopher Hart books ... though I think those have also flooded the libraries now due to people just giving up on them

The process of making mistakes is also being able to pick up what book helps you click. Just because now you see it as subpar doesn't mean you stopping someone from reading it is going to "Save their life" or even fucking save time on "Drawing better".

Everyone starts somewhere. I'm sure no one has not picked up a bad book they enjoyed learning to draw from, Hart included.

[sone_one]

your point is?

its not [as bad as the christopher hart books?
or
it didnt harm me on the long run?
...

c'mon this is redicilious ... the question generally is... what should i do/read to aquire that or that knowledge... i just dont see any reason to advise or advocate books that are proven to be weaker than other available options.

all this betty edwards argument just started when daj22602 attacked arenhaus for saying its crap... and i think noone would deny, that compared to other books, it is.
noone is ment to be attacked personally and if you got some spare time ... read it ... why not.
but if youre out for instruction... forget it and read other (better) books.

looking back at your progession... would you say betty edwards had a major impact? that helped you more than other books?

and if no... why advocating it?

if yes... i got a list full of book recommendations for you.

[Arshes Nei]

your point is?


looking back at your progession... would you say betty edwards had a major impact? that helped you more than other books?

and if no... why advocating it?

if yes... i got a list full of book recommendations for you.

It got me to start drawing more instead of "uhhh well how do I start, what do I do" I'm sorry if this chaps your hide so much, but honestly? Get over it.

I think something helping someone to start no matter how bad it is, is fine. Most people can access the book and start. I've seen more people feel less intimidated with that book than more with other GREAT books to start with.

If Christopher Hart got people to start drawing and enjoy it, more power to that - however, if they want to get better. What matters more is the progress and the fact people will then seek alternatives.

I still don't understand "how dare you defend this book" to someone when

1. I was a kid. I understood the exercises tried it and went... "oh never thought of that"

2. No matter how great you think a book is, if it doesn't click with the person there will be no progress.

That's why even though people complain about Bridgman for example, I can only offer them suggestions in the order of which to approach the books and avoiding the "Complete" version because it has some bad editing. If they still want to use it, fine. If they want to try another book, that's also fine.

I can say why I don't like Hogarth or X number of books...but in the end if it works for other people then that's great.

So yeah, if people find that Betty Edwards helps them off with beginner work, I'm not gonna knock it. Because they have a long journey ahead anyways.

[sone_one]

meh, this is moot...

i hereby admit betty edwards' book most likely aint going to hurt you physically, without it dropping, cutting, or pinching (on) your feet/hands/face/anyother part of your body.
and that the likelyness for you to suffer any mental harm, is as minimal as reading any other book, without considering individual dispositions.

youre fine now?

it still is bad instruction built upon a flawed foundation.

[Star Eater]

You want me to lock this Sone, you just give the word...