Breaking Bad! (SPOILERS)

[tobbA]

My impression is that something "snapped" inside Walt since the end of last season. He doesn't care anymore. After all, he told Skyler, "you don't have to think about all that stuff. If you just let it go everything is going to feel fine." (Well, something like that anyway.) He's even trying to convince Jesse (and himself) that he cares about the dead kid, but afterwards he's just whistling happily while doing his thing.

But sure, I can imagine all that stuff will start rising back to the surface at the end when he inevitably gets caught/is going to die. But then it would also be a bit interesting if it ended with him saying something like, "I regret nothing."

[Psychotime]

See, early in season three Walter was still on the fence about possibly dropping everything for good. He almost burns the money out of guilt, and it's clear that he wasn't completely lost at this point.



Also, big points for the actors and crew doing real stunts and using practical effects.

[Psychotime]

I love this show. Oh god, I love this show.

I LOVE the fact that it can be a dark and serious show that's garnered tons of accolades, and yet it's creators don't have their heads up their own asses to prevent them from just having fun from time to time, make a funny and memorable gag, and THEN do a little "behind the scenes" on the DVD about the gag which is funny in itself!

And the fact that they did that, and on the FIRST TAKE! I totally thought it was CG! It looked way too perfect to be real.

[hu-ha]

Wow marvelous pizza.

I'm going to watch last episode now, it's hard to get over. Definitely the best TV series, I don't really need to mention that. I hope ending is really decent(and good thing it probably will). Ew waiting.
Mike was one of my favourites, and how he ended is just sad </3 actually most of them are pretty likeable, excluding Skyler, Ted and Todd(but maybe he's going to get better, although I think they all have tendency rather to go down). Walter is falling too but imo it's pretty understandable. I still like him but not that much I used to.

[Psychotime]

What's wrong with Skyler? She's probably the most sympathetic character on the show other than Jesse!

The man she married has been replaced with a power hungry monster that's done all of these horrible things just for the sake of his ego (as it is now, that's all this it's for, the "for his family" reason died a while ago). And despite this she still loves him too much to report him to the cops and risk their children finding out what their father has become.

Instead she'd take the judgements and verbal abuse from the everyone else onto herself and wait out for the cancer to finish up. She'd rather let everyone think these horrible things about her than ever reveal the truth! That says alot about her drive, as well as her compassion. She is no saint, no one on this show is, but she's shown herself to be a long-suffering, strong willed, and simultaneously kind-hearted character that's very sympathetic because of it.

I think the people who dislike the character haven't payed attention to what her character is really about, or cared enough to think about the reasons she does the things she does.

By the way, have you ever noticed how in a bunch of scenes in season 5 between Skyler and Walt, the lighting intentionally darkens the top of Walt's face to give him a hint of menace? That's great! It gives us more of an idea of what Skyler sees him as!


Moving on...

Here's one thing about Gus that I don't think will ever be answered. It appears that some people got the idea that Gus was evil enough to have gotten that one kid murdered. I'm still not sure where they're getting that, or that he was really ok with the kid being used at all in his operation.

Walter was ASSUMING that (or just saying it to control Jesse), just as much as he ASSUMED to know the reason why Gus killed Victor.

If you're going to think Walter putting himself on Gus' death list after running over the drug dealers who killed the kid somehow confirms the idea that Gus was OK with using children in his operation, coincidentally this goes right back to the reason Walt thought caused Victor to die: They overstepped their bounds and did something out of line. This is why Walt thought Victor was killed (outside of being an example).

The reality of Victor's death was that he let himself become the only face to be seen at Gale's murder site, and was immediately identified. But Walt never knew that, and only had what he saw in front of him to ponder. Of course, the show itself doesn't explicitly say this, but Giancarlo Esposito himself explains why his character did it.



So yeah, I think that Gus was going to kill the drug dealers himself, but Jesse and Walt went out of line and took it in their own hands, which is something you don't let fly.

I like to think that Walter's actions in order to defeat Gus have shown Walt to be WORSE than Gus could have ever been.

The only reason Gus ever did ANYTHING was purely on revenge against the cartel, which he finally accomplished. Honesty he had nothing to live for anymore except torturing Hector.

For Gus, it was never about money or power. Walter, on the other hand...

[JFierce]

Well for Walter it was about money and power but simply because of the money and power he had slip through his fingers earlier in life. That stupid decision he made with his research. Hence why at the end of the day towards the last seasons end he was feeling empty. He had it all. Everything he wanted. But it wasn't what he thought it was chocked up to be.


This is why I'm very curious about this season coming up. We've seen Walters rise to the top getting what he wanted. Now it's his dissent back into the normal life which won't happen because now Hank knows. So it's going to show how it's impossible to go back to how things were.

[hu-ha]

I agree that some of recent Walt's deeds are terrible, and he often treated Jesse bad, but his first reason was taking care of family, and Skyler couldn't understand it, she didn't know what Walter was going through and didn't even tried to understand. What he experienced in first seasons is quite a burden and that was sad to see he is struggling, and after telling his wife he is rather despised than supported. Skyler has no compassion for Walter and treats him like shit. It was a long way for Walt and it all was for nothing. Kinda frustrating.

She'd rather let everyone think these horrible things about her than ever reveal the truth!

I don't really know what horrible things You mean? Or sth slipped my mind.

[Psychotime]

I agree that some of recent Walt's deeds are terrible, and he often treated Jesse bad, but his first reason was taking care of family

Walter started off having a noble cause, but the longer he stayed in the game the more his morals deteriorated and the more depraved his actions became. That's the entire point of the series. A meek and mild mannered guy eventually becomes a monster that will force you to kill innocent people in cold blood and POISON YOUR GIRLFRIEND'S SON just to get his way. And can whistle to work after disposing the body of an innocent child.

Despite being completely unaware of the horrible things Walt's done to control him, Jesse was very direct to Walt, who had already earned all the money he ever needed, and then some, and even Jesse could discern that his original motive no longer applied.

Skyler couldn't understand it, she didn't know what Walter was going through and didn't even tried to understand. What he experienced in first seasons is quite a burden and that was sad to see he is struggling, and after telling his wife he is rather despised than supported.

Meth is not innocuous like marijuana.

The ATM couple are an example of the kind of people that meth dealers make their money off! That's the side that dealers try to rationalize, and Jesse himself draws the line when he knows one user's actions will affect their family members, especially children.

Badger and Skinny Pete also have a line they won't cross, as shown with the support group.

A person can easily object to this on stable moral ground, and that's what Skyler initially does. With Marie's kleptomania, it's made very clear early on that Skyler has a moral code that she doesn't take lightly.

The White family are not just some regular laymen off from some random area. They're very well acquainted with the DEA, and the brother in law loves to tell his stories from work any time there's a get together. They should be somewhat versed in the basic facts of the drug trade. The type of people it affects, and the type of people who run it.

Her disapproval has legitimate weight to it, because it's based on facts she SHOULD know, not things she's assuming.

However, once she finally sees the money for herself, she starts to fall into it as well. She decides to help Walt by laundering his money...Until she sees what the time in this business has done to him, and her emotions start to reverse. What started as disapproval and turned into acceptance, turned into fear.



Good lord, this scene is too amazing.

Pay attention to EVERYTHING she says. Pay attention to everything HE says. Pay attention to her reaction. It was RIGHT there where she finally sees that the man she's talking to ISN'T the man she married. IMMEDIATELY after she started dragging herself into the mud along with him for that tempting money, she sees what everything Walter went through to make it (which she can only speculate, but having a DEA agent as a brother in law can give her a realistic perspective) has done to him.

(Check out how he changes to a darker shirt when he goes into Heisenberg mode. Didn't notice till someone pointed out that little subtle touch.)

The ending to season 4 is the final kicker. This is where she can no longer just speculate and it's made perfectly clear that her husband is now a man that can set a bomb at an old folks home and treat it like a chess game. And this is before we, the audience, find out about the flowers!

Skyler has no compassion for Walter and treats him like shit.

How? Please tell me how.

I seriously doubt you've really payed attention to Skyler's character, nor have ever bothered to think about the motives for everything she does.

That's not intended to be an insult, I'm just saying.

I don't really know what horrible things You mean? Or sth slipped my mind.

Right now her family thinks she's a self centered asshole who forced a separation with and cheated on her cancer-ridden husband, apparently BECAUSE of the cancer, because she doesn't want anyone to know the REAL reasons for these things. And she'd rather have this than let anyone know about Walt.

It got to the point where Walter Jr. would call his mother a bitch right in front of her face. His own mother!

We've seen Walters rise to the top getting what he wanted. Now it's his dissent back into the normal life which won't happen because now Hank knows. So it's going to show how it's impossible to go back to how things were.

We know he's gonna have to get a new identity. At least that part is clear.

[hu-ha]

POISON YOUR GIRLFRIEND'S SON

JEEZ I'm so dumb, I thought Walter is going to throw away his plant because he don't want get his kid poisoned.

Ok, maybe sleeping with Ted and telling about it Walter isn't really treating like shit, considering they were in separation, and telling Walter she's waiting for him to die too, because these times Walter became quite shitty guy. Yes Skyler deserves compassion, but comparing to Walter's problems, her problems were not very important and irritating - maybe I'm not sympathetic enough, just don't like this character.

[Psychotime]

Ok, maybe sleeping with Ted and telling about it Walter isn't really treating like shit, considering they were in separation,

It's a reprehensible action, yes, but I don't think enough people realize that there was a REASON for it. It was an emotional attack against Walter, a passive aggressive way of showing her disapproval when other words and actions weren't working.

Think of it this way, someone you care about is doing a deplorable thing for YOUR sake, and they won't listen to you when you don't want the gains from it. Saying "No, I don't want this dirty money, it's not worth it." doesn't make him stop. Forcing a separation (with no intent to actually separate) doesn't make him stop.

It wasn't something she just did at the drop of a hat, it built up to that point. What other action could she have taken to prove to Walter that she didn't want his dirty money?

Yes Skyler deserves compassion, but comparing to Walter's problems, her problems were not very important and irritating - maybe I'm not sympathetic enough, just don't like this character.

That's fine. There are reasons you can find Skyler unlikeable.


Now I agree with you about Ted being unlikeable, because he is to some degree. Didn't feel sorry at all for the guy when he broke his neck on that table.

[Arshes Nei]

It's only the last few eps where I could sympathize with Skyler slightly.

For one she whipped Walt a lot, it was very apparent at the beginning when he was diagnosed with cancer. Best scene to show this was the "intervention" where the practically demanded everyone say what Skyler wanted to hear, not what they wanted to say.

It is hard to feel sympathy for someone upset that her husband is selling drugs for money. So what's the best way to handle it? Fuck the guy who is laundering money.
It doesn't make her strong, it makes her a hypocrite.

Also like this transformation - http://chessterrhollowberry.blogspot...ter-white.html

[Psychotime]

Why do people keep making it sound like that's the FIRST thing she did? She already said "No, I don't want the dirty money", then kicked him out of the house and forced a separation (that she never really intended to follow through with).

What's something else she could have done to make it clear to Walt that "No, I don't want the dirty money." after the whole separation didn't work?

[Arshes Nei]

Why do people keep making it sound like that's the FIRST thing she did? She already said "No, I don't want the dirty money", then kicked him out of the house and forced a separation (that she never really intended to follow through with).

What's something else she could have done to make it clear to Walt that "No, I don't want the dirty money." after the whole separation didn't work?

By fucking another guy with dirty money? It's one thing if she was ignorant and didn't willfully help cook the books for Ted. The fact is she knew what she was doing and went and fucked the guy on top of it.

[Psychotime]

I've gotta look back at Season 3 to make sure I don't have the order of events mixed up. I thought she started cooking his books AFTERWARD, not before.

[Arshes Nei]

It was before. She knew he was committing fraud and didn't turn him in. At first she claimed not to want to be a part of it, but she started the affair as revenge for Walter not leaving the house.

Ted continued for days to have Skyler's assistance in cooking the books. When she attempts to make a move on him in the break room, following her meltdown with Walt, he acts on his feelings for her, which then leads to an ongoing affair. His attempts in convincing her to move in with him ultimately prove successful.


Where is your chicken brother now?

[Arshes Nei]

Well just bumping these for some amusement seeing where these actors have been and now..

Bryan Cranston

Hal the Dancing Fool (Malcom in the Middle)








Good thing Gus wasn't employed by Romney....because this could have gone very differently for Big Bird.

[Psychotime]

Looks like I now have something of a reason to check this out.

[Arshes Nei]

Here's one thing about Gus that I don't think will ever be answered. It appears that some people got the idea that Gus was evil enough to have gotten that one kid murdered. I'm still not sure where they're getting that, or that he was really ok with the kid being used at all in his operation.

Walter was ASSUMING that (or just saying it to control Jesse), just as much as he ASSUMED to know the reason why Gus killed Victor.

If you're going to think Walter putting himself on Gus' death list after running over the drug dealers who killed the kid somehow confirms the idea that Gus was OK with using children in his operation, coincidentally this goes right back to the reason Walt thought caused Victor to die: They overstepped their bounds and did something out of line. This is why Walt thought Victor was killed (outside of being an example).

So yeah, I think that Gus was going to kill the drug dealers himself, but Jesse and Walt went out of line and took it in their own hands, which is something you don't let fly.

For Gus, it was never about money or power. Walter, on the other hand...

In this situation you're also assuming too much.

Walter didn't even want to be involved with shooting the gang members that killed one of Jessie's crew. He only stepped in when he realized Jessie was going after them after the murder of the child.

The interesting thing to look at is Walter and Jessie's relationship, which may have taken parallels to Gus and Max's relationship. There is a bond.

Max and Gus may have had a bromance but Walt and Jess are a father and wayward son. Unlike Jr. They even look like father and son.

Walt did the shooting because he at the time didn't want Jessie to. He felt responsible for his "son". Later when his life was in danger did he then use Jessie.

The show is about how much is too much and when is wrong, wrong.

So it is more obvious with Walt's transformation.

As for the child, he was a liability. He would obviously be granted immunity, if he told any of this. So that is why it is left ambiguous as to whether or not Gus had him killed. He just said "no more kids" which can point to the obvious risk of having them about in the first place. Not just a moral issue.

[Psychotime]

In this situation you're also assuming too much.

Walter didn't even want to be involved with shooting the gang members that killed one of Jessie's crew. He only stepped in when he realized Jessie was going after them after the murder of the child.

Ah, but Gus wouldn't know that, would he? He saw Walter as the ringmaster, but in his introduction he was already wary about Jesse given his drug use. Anything Jesse screwed up would go right back to Walt.

Ugh, Gus' view on Jesse went all over the place, because at this point he WAS after Jesse, but later he saw him as someone he could mold.

...I have no idea where I was going with that.

As for the child, he was a liability. He would obviously be granted immunity, if he told any of this. So that is why it is left ambiguous as to whether or not Gus had him killed. He just said "no more kids" which can point to the obvious risk of having them about in the first place. Not just a moral issue.

How much could the kid possibly know about the whole operation? I don't think the kid could rat out anyone other than the two dudes he worked with. I still see his murder as the result of the two dudes taking initiative to save their OWN skins. I doubt the kid knew anything far enough that could put Gus' whole operation in jeopardy, so I still want to hold to my little idea that Gus wasn't as evil as one might think.

But of course, it's left completely ambiguous and will never be cleared up.

[Arshes Nei]

The whole point is it's a chain. Kid gets immunity for being a minor, points out the two guys who he was working with. Then those guys may break a deal and rat out their boss.

Those guys worked for Gus and it was a turf war that caused Combo's death, especially since this was before Gus got a hold of Blue Sky.

Gus saw how far Jessie was going for Walter. Gus wanted to try a new tactic to get a hold of Walter (who is more controllable) As Mike said, Walter is more of a ticking timebomb. Jessie may do stupid things but he's more loyal than Walter appeared in Gus' eyes.

[JFierce]

I'll bring back this thread. I'm rewatching the series for the first time. Originally marathoned 1-3 then watched 4 when it came out. Didn't rewatch an episode.



I'm starting to see that yeah. Walters always just been a bad person. Rewatching episode 6 season 1. Where Gretchen catches him in a lie that Gray Matters paying for his treatment. Which also ridiculously pissed me off thinking about how if he just accepted the money it would be the end of it all (and the story lol). That would have been the end of it done, he could have gotten a better paying career back in the field he'd enjoy. But it's the fact he literally twists things around in his head.

If I'm not mistaken the true story behind Gray Matter and Walt is. He had a fight or something which has yet to be shown, he left Gretchen at this party or something, never came back, left his research and sold his shares in the company for 5k. Somehow Walt twists this as them stealing his research which likely either A) belonged to the company he was a part of, or B) he never asked for it back so of course they used it.

I think the whole point with Walts character is that he was ironically a fairly bad guy to the core, maybe even because he was brilliant a sociopath and all around manipulative douche, who once he met Skyler and had their son he had to take on the role of loving family man, teacher and good guy and over time just emulated the life.






and Skyler will never stop pissing me off. Yeah my husband has cancer and even his doctor says it's likely just his treatment prolongs his death by a few years. He has to go through chemo and this and that but once his behavior changes if he's not 100% honest with me about everything he's in the wrong, no no he can't have a single secret or weird behavior, not from the guy who's told he was going to die, or I'm going to be petty and play the silent treatment and be passive aggressive as hell.

Later on you can feel slightly sorry for her but I don't remember how I felt towards the end with her.

[Arshes Nei]

I'm starting to see that yeah. Walters always just been a bad person. Rewatching episode 6 season 1. Where Gretchen catches him in a lie that Gray Matters paying for his treatment. Which also ridiculously pissed me off thinking about how if he just accepted the money it would be the end of it all (and the story lol). That would have been the end of it done, he could have gotten a better paying career back in the field he'd enjoy. But it's the fact he literally twists things around in his head.

If I'm not mistaken the true story behind Gray Matter and Walt is. He had a fight or something which has yet to be shown, he left Gretchen at this party or something, never came back, left his research and sold his shares in the company for 5k. Somehow Walt twists this as them stealing his research which likely either A) belonged to the company he was a part of, or B) he never asked for it back so of course they used it.

I think the whole point with Walts character is that he was ironically a fairly bad guy to the core, maybe even because he was brilliant a sociopath and all around manipulative douche, who once he met Skyler and had their son he had to take on the role of loving family man, teacher and good guy and over time just emulated the life.

He definitely has an ego and it bolsters the more he can get away with things.

You see him pretty whipped early on.

The Gray Matters is still rather ambiguous as to what exactly happened. So people have a different interpretation of events till...well we actually see those events play out that caused Walter to leave. What we got are tidbits from each perspective but not an actual account of what really happened. Obviously, these two were an item. Yet now the two who are an item are now owners in Gray Matter. So I would not be surprised if "an affair/sleeping with the other guy" is part of the reason.

You do know that Walter really resents Gretchen. I really doubt he'd suddenly leave her unless she really gave him a reason to do so, specially with starting a new life as a teacher.

[JFierce]

That is true, there should be an account from Elliot and what happened. Which probably will happen towards the end. For me I feel that Gretchen, felt well..... sincere then it really really depends on if Elliot or whoever did something truly twisted to Walt. But I can't imagine something that would do that. So if anything truly happened to Walt it would probably be something that happened without Gretchen knowing obviously. But it would have to be pretty bad for Walt to leave the company straight up leaving everything.


The main reason I say it was more on Walts end was because in the episode Buyout in season, when he gave Jessie the rundown on what happened to him. Why he won't quit. It was because he won't sellout. Making it seem like he feels like he sold out before. So if someone sells out he did it as his own decision for the money. He even said at that time that was a lot of money for me. So my thoughts until the details are 100% revealed are Walt had an issue with Gretchen, maybe even Elliot. Then to get away from it all he chose the less logical choice of taking 5k and then left. Could be as simple as an affair or slight fling when they were together, or even a complete misunderstanding or plot by Eliot that lead to a misunderstanding since Gretchen didn't know what was going on and Walt acted like "You fucking know".


Actually just typing that makes me think it might be something like that. Hmmm.... gonna have to wait until the details are revealed to decide if Walt was evil from the beginning, or just scarred.

[Arshes Nei]

Yes it would be interesting to see what happened in Gray Matters, of course we could be tearing out our hair if the writers decide to leave it ambiguous. Specially seeing this is the last season.

[JFierce]

If they did that I would go insane lol. Especially because in Buyout Walt also when talking to Jessie was about to spill the details then he just said "Oh well.... no it's nothing I'm not going to get into the details".



Also you almost forget how long this show is I'm barely through Season 1 and you forget how much intense shit happens. Scratch that season 2 I mean.


Edit: Didn't wanna bump a new post. But this show has one thing that draws it all together, chemistry and great actors. When Walt was announced his cancer went into remission by 80%, still even though knowing it was coming, tugged at the heartstrings a bit.