The Shoelace Stroke Problem -Intuos - Test to see if you have it

[Shahan]

Look at hecartha's post on Page 3
This illustrates the problem perfectly
--------------------

UPDATE 3/21/12 ::: Shoelace strokes come from
my pen tip and eraser, also this is commonly seen in the
Wacom Tablet Properties "customize" pen pressure area which is not any software
but wacom driver software.
As seen at the end of this Wacom Forums thread :
http://forum.wacom.eu/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1760 :it is a current issue
with some intuos5 and is an example of shoelaces in the driver software.
Things I've tried already:
-Yes the pressure read out goes to zero immediately
-Photoshop CS5 no smoothing(effect appears at beginning of strokes)
-disabled OpenGL
-Corel Painter 12 calibration
-disabled all pen feedback(win7 Ult. gpedit.msc)
-Old drivers new driver all drivers
-I've tried everything... trying more things...


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INSTRUCTIONS TO TEST YOUR TABLET: If you have any Wacom tablet product and a driver that can test pen strokes (if not get the latest at the EU site)
Go into the "Wacom Tablet Properties" and do fast and high pressure pen swipes to see if your marks loook like those shwon below,
Post if you do or do not have this issue, please state OS.
Thanks, greatly appreciated.


I've posted about this before, but i think the new wacom software shows something new.
Using an Intuos 4 with various software.



This problem has been plaguing me for a long time now.
I'm referring to weird stroke ends in ANY software and very alarmingly the wacom driver stroke test area.

I have the latest driver, my nibs are new.. the inside of my pen is clean..
my tablet surface is clean.

I have disabled ALL windows 7 features and flicks and whatnot using GPEdit
and other ways.

Here is a series of using the intuos 4 making fast... medium fast ... strokes.

this seriously affects sketching and line work, even if it doesn't I want to know whats wrong with my expensive hardware and software......

does anyone have this problem?

assistance needed :<

-----------------------------------------------------

So CS5 with out smoothing works but shoelaces now appear at the beginnings of strokes

and OpenCanvas in general works but OC lacks Photoshop awesomeness





The last 2 images however REALLY worries me... ive been uninstalling and installing with my intuos plugged or unplugged ALL night.
If the DRIVER software is picking this crap up ... thats not good right? i mean i dont know.

[Quigleyer]

I'm getting this as well- it's only with the felt nibs, however. Disappointing on my new intuos 4- the only time I care about line quality to the point that this bothers me a ton is when I'm drawing, and I use the felt nibs to draw mostly (friction!). Kinda kills the whole point of the felt nib.

Oh well, they don't last long anyway (the nibs, the tablets do!)

[HugeBlack]

From my experience it seems like a software issue. Some software (i'm looking at you Adobe) don't seem to recognize all the levels of pressure sensitivity very well and so you get this effect.

I use Corel Painter for my inking and it's BRILLIANT, especially after brush calibration.

The best thing you can do is reduce the Pen's sensitivity by making it firmer (take it up two notches) and setting the brush to airbrush. It should help a bit. Then increase the size when you need larger strokes. Depending on your setup you may need to turn of brush smoothing. I'm using CS5.

[ikken]

try removing your pen nib and pushing it back, it might get stuck/not properly inserted inside, resulting in the small trail at the end of strokes ( = looks like you lift up pen from surface, but nib still keeps pushing the pressure sensor for a moment)

also, what HugeBlack said.

[Elciled]

Weird. I have this problem with my Graphire 3 lol õ_o
It shows much more in Photoshop (I have CS5) with smoothing, but even without smoothing it happens, the difference is instead of happening on the end of the strokes, it shows on the beginning.
But I usually prefer SAI, where it only shows if I use the pen (hard-edged solid)
I thought it was because it's you know, a Graphire 3 and Photoshop generally hates it D:
I would never make the pen firmer though... it makes Photoshop so much worse to work with for me. In fact I can only use it when I turn the sensivity up a lot.
I also thought maybe it had to do with how used my pen nib is (7 years) but if you have a Intuos 4 with a new nib...
Tried what ikken said, no changes.

Have you tried asking Wacom about this?

[Fj Wepener]

I'm experiencing the same shoelace effect on a new intuos 5 touch large.
Tried all the different nibs, tried different photoshop brush settings but it's still there.

Hey at least we are the best at drawing shoelaces.

This didn't happen on my intuos 3

[Fj Wepener]

There's a topic on the wacom forums about this: http://forum.wacom.eu/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1760

A wacom rep replied with this:

"You might have a defect in the pen, when it returns to zero pressure with a delay. You can check this in the tablet driver diagnostics. If it is a hardware problem send the pen to our service center for replacement.

If it appears ok in the diagnostics, move the tip feel slider towards 'firm'. Also try different brushes in CS4."

[Fj Wepener]

There's a topic on the wacom forums about this: http://forum.wacom.eu/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1760

A wacom rep replied with this:

"You might have a defect in the pen, when it returns to zero pressure with a delay. You can check this in the tablet driver diagnostics. If it is a hardware problem send the pen to our service center for replacement.

If it appears ok in the diagnostics, move the tip feel slider towards 'firm'. Also try different brushes in CS4."

[REONIN]

Yes the same problem here, I don't think is a hardware problem (I mean not from the pen at least) I just disable the smoothing and it works ok.

[ikken]

something to try as well - go to wacom tablet preferences, click "about", hold "alt" (on mac os) and click "diagnose"
you'll see a new option, called "pressure offset", and a numeric field:

(I have no idea why mine is set to "2"; more on this setting @ google, but iirc, you can cut off a certain threshold of pen input, to minimize random stroke appearance;
messing around with it will not magically destroy your wacom by all means)

[Fj Wepener]

There doesn't seem to be a Pressure Offset parameter on the intuos 5 diagnostics window, even when holding in alt or any modifier key when selecting it.

[REONIN]

I tried to make some strokes in my laptop and work ok in PS CS5 with smoothing but the difference between the PC and the laptop is the version of the wacom tablet drivers, in my laptop I have the original drivers that came with the tablet.

[Arshes Nei]

Out of curiosity, are any of you running ATi graphics cards?

[Fj Wepener]

nvidia 560ti here

[Elciled]

I have nvidia too (geforce)
And there's no tablet preferences for my oldie, though I've uninstalled and reinstalled dozens of drivers XD There's a bamboo config menu for the driver, but no diagnose or anything similar.

[Shahan]

I'm getting this as well- it's only with the felt nibs, however. Disappointing on my new intuos 4- the only time I care about line quality to the point that this bothers me a ton is when I'm drawing, and I use the felt nibs to draw mostly (friction!). Kinda kills the whole point of the felt nib.

Oh well, they don't last long anyway (the nibs, the tablets do!)

it does suck, ONE solution is Photoshop CS5 with no smoothing and all seems well... also i never used my felt nibs just the standards, good luck tho thanks for the input

From my experience it seems like a software issue. Some software (i'm looking at you Adobe) don't seem to recognize all the levels of pressure sensitivity very well and so you get this effect.

I use Corel Painter for my inking and it's BRILLIANT, especially after brush calibration.

The best thing you can do is reduce the Pen's sensitivity by making it firmer (take it up two notches) and setting the brush to airbrush. It should help a bit. Then increase the size when you need larger strokes. Depending on your setup you may need to turn of brush smoothing. I'm using CS5.

hmm yes it is software mostly but what really bothers me is that it shows on the wacom driver/properties test area... idk wtf that means lol.
i like corel but usually go with photoshop or my autodesk sb express... im new to this and getting acclimated corel seems really cool though . how does brush calibration work?

also making it firm with an intuos4 ive seen is a bad thing, what with the nibwaer. ive altered the sensitivity to save nibs and so this clonflicts with that. no matter what the hard/soft setting for w/e reason CS5 with no smoothing works so this throws off everything lol, why does it work here and not on the driver/properties pad.

try removing your pen nib and pushing it back, it might get stuck/not properly inserted inside, resulting in the small trail at the end of strokes ( = looks like you lift up pen from surface, but nib still keeps pushing the pressure sensor for a moment)

also, what HugeBlack said.

i see, i did this and "cleaned" my tablet and pen best i could and it still seems to be a software thing, again ..if it works perfectly in CS5 no smoothing, then theres something fishy... or it just seems like it works in CS5.
so all in all probably not hardware, if it is hardware then i'll see what i can do in the repairing /mail wacom department,

Weird. I have this problem with my Graphire 3 lol õ_o
It shows much more in Photoshop (I have CS5) with smoothing, but even without smoothing it happens, the difference is instead of happening on the end of the strokes, it shows on the beginning.
But I usually prefer SAI, where it only shows if I use the pen (hard-edged solid)
I thought it was because it's you know, a Graphire 3 and Photoshop generally hates it D:
I would never make the pen firmer though... it makes Photoshop so much worse to work with for me. In fact I can only use it when I turn the sensivity up a lot.
I also thought maybe it had to do with how used my pen nib is (7 years) but if you have a Intuos 4 with a new nib...
Tried what ikken said, no changes.

Have you tried asking Wacom about this?

oh? hmm.. seems to be ok in CS5 with out smoothing, i also have openGL disabled that may help you... oh wait... isee the shoelace at the beginning oh NOOO now i'll never un see it >.< !!!!! gahh
and wow ... 7 years nib? ..awesome.. intuos4 could never lmao.
yes apparently someone else asked wacom and alll in all it seems to be some defect you need to mail your pen and replace it to fix this issue...

I'm experiencing the same shoelace effect on a new intuos 5 touch large.
Tried all the different nibs, tried different photoshop brush settings but it's still there.

Hey at least we are the best at drawing shoelaces.

This didn't happen on my intuos 3

WOW... thats rough... at least i know for the intuos4 maybe CS5 with no smoothing may offer temporary relief... also try disabling openGL(it just makes photoshop smoother faster) and lmao yes...
YES i knowww right?? i wish i never sold my intuos 3 i would give up those pressure levels for non shoelaces...

There's a topic on the wacom forums about this: http://forum.wacom.eu/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1760

A wacom rep replied with this:

"You might have a defect in the pen, when it returns to zero pressure with a delay. You can check this in the tablet driver diagnostics. If it is a hardware problem send the pen to our service center for replacement.

If it appears ok in the diagnostics, move the tip feel slider towards 'firm'. Also try different brushes in CS4."

hmmm ive checked it over and over in the tablet properties with the .....blue bar right?
ive seen this thread its where i got the name "sholace effect" haha it was perfect!

yeah so it seems i need to mail them my i4 grip pen... but can all people afflicted even the guy with an intuos5 have defective pens? doesnt seem right...

There's a topic on the wacom forums about this: http://forum.wacom.eu/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1760

A wacom rep replied with this:

"You might have a defect in the pen, when it returns to zero pressure with a delay. You can check this in the tablet driver diagnostics. If it is a hardware problem send the pen to our service center for replacement.

If it appears ok in the diagnostics, move the tip feel slider towards 'firm'. Also try different brushes in CS4."

Yes the same problem here, I don't think is a hardware problem (I mean not from the pen at least) I just disable the smoothing and it works ok.

ahh yes, ive done this as well. but see if the shoelaces are at the beggining of your strokes... see if thats still there... then its still not resolved yknow?

something to try as well - go to wacom tablet preferences, click "about", hold "alt" (on mac os) and click "diagnose"
you'll see a new option, called "pressure offset", and a numeric field:

(I have no idea why mine is set to "2"; more on this setting @ google, but iirc, you can cut off a certain threshold of pen input, to minimize random stroke appearance;
messing around with it will not magically destroy your wacom by all means)

THANK YOU for this, i cant actually adjust those settings i have a Windows 7 laptop... but this is AT LEAST a new lead thank you so much for this.

There doesn't seem to be a Pressure Offset parameter on the intuos 5 diagnostics window, even when holding in alt or any modifier key when selecting it.

yeah i didnt even press alt so i dont think your alone, prolly a PC like me.

I tried to make some strokes in my laptop and work ok in PS CS5 with smoothing but the difference between the PC and the laptop is the version of the wacom tablet drivers, in my laptop I have the original drivers that came with the tablet.

yesss the disk's driver the one that comes with the tablet?
i think ive tried this before...
im going to FULLY uninstall and wipe and erase my tablet form my pc and use the intuos4 original disk and see what happens, thank you

Out of curiosity, are any of you running ATi graphics cards?

i dont think so, i have "intel(R) HD Graphics" .. whyy do you ask? same problem?

nvidia 560ti here

I have nvidia too (geforce)
And there's no tablet preferences for my oldie, though I've uninstalled and reinstalled dozens of drivers XD There's a bamboo config menu for the driver, but no diagnose or anything similar.

aare you using PC? lol and yes i have uninstalled and installed my intuos4 like 50 times...



Thank you all for your responses this really helped, so possible solutions so far are:

1. Photoshop CS5 with no smoothing (end of strokes are good but now shoelaces at beginning at stroke)

2. Go to tablet properties and diagnose (can this work with PCs? i cant click it)

3. Possibly a pen defect.

[HugeBlack]

@ Sporus

The amazing thing about Corel Painter is it calculates the average amount of pressure and speed you draw your strokes with and adjusts all the brushes to match. Here's a post on it http://goo.gl/KeaXk

When i use CS5 for art (which i don't do much or at all anymore) i normally have the Wacom Tablet Properties window open as well so i can adjust the tip feel as i work. I know, it's troublesome that's why i moved to Painter.

Using painter i have never had to adjust my stylus (even opacity or size of brushes) when i'm working (pencil sketching or inking). The only time i adjust something is when i'm painting. However using Corel Painter is not for the faint-hearted the program is as unstable as my last relationship. But the ability to shade with the side of your stylus and mix colours like real paint is well worth it.

Good luck.

[HugeBlack]

@ Arshes Nei

Nvidia

[ikken]

THANK YOU for this, i cant actually adjust those settings i have a Windows 7 laptop... but this is AT LEAST a new lead thank you so much for this.

try holding control (or shift, shift-control, ctrl-alt something) - this functionality IS included with windows tablet drivers, but I'm not sure it's not locked for newer models (I only have intuos 3)
sorry can't check it atm. I'm away from my tablet right now, but I have windows as a 2nd OS and I'll check it before end of week.

[Shahan]

@ Sporus

The amazing thing about Corel Painter is it calculates the average amount of pressure and speed you draw your strokes with and adjusts all the brushes to match. Here's a post on it http://goo.gl/KeaXk

When i use CS5 for art (which i don't do much or at all anymore) i normally have the Wacom Tablet Properties window open as well so i can adjust the tip feel as i work. I know, it's troublesome that's why i moved to Painter.

Using painter i have never had to adjust my stylus (even opacity or size of brushes) when i'm working (pencil sketching or inking). The only time i adjust something is when i'm painting. However using Corel Painter is not for the faint-hearted the program is as unstable as my last relationship. But the ability to shade with the side of your stylus and mix colours like real paint is well worth it.

Good luck.

Holy wow... i had Painter 12 installed and have severely underestimated it... this may be my switch from Adobe.

This is amazing also when you use it you have to hit the scratch board for each brush or each time you feel like recalibrating right?
when youre on the circly scratch board does yours just show one blue color in different sizes?
I mean why does the tut's blog guy have his scratch board with circles varying in size and color? possibly just a different brush? i was calibrating acrylics and junk.
ALSO i didnt even know there was a pressure sensitivity thing for Corel I was just using brushes with static sizes that remained the same!
So this adds the pressure sensitivity AND makes it perrfect!

THANK YOU Possible viable solution Painter 12 Brush Calibrator

try holding control (or shift, shift-control, ctrl-alt something) - this functionality IS included with windows tablet drivers, but I'm not sure it's not locked for newer models (I only have intuos 3)
sorry can't check it atm. I'm away from my tablet right now, but I have windows as a 2nd OS and I'll check it before end of week.

hmmm i feel like i should be able to do this lolol.
So i think its shift+ctrl+alt ... and when do you hold?

when double clicking the "Wacom Tablet properties" shortcut or..
the "About" button or hold as you click "...Diagnose" ???

Also would this help? when i see the greyed out version i see pressure offset but its empty. would adjusting that affect the strokes?







All in all it seems like this is a very weird allusive issue... First and foremost I'd like to have nice strokes on the Driver "wacom tablet properties" scratchpad i say this because this should be the direct wacom software to the tablet and correct me if im wrong and shouldnt care about this and just be happy Corel 12 and CS5 with no smoothing half works...

Thank you guys so much!!! I really appreciate the help also to anyone still afflicted and not wanting to buy Corel Painter 12

I found this on my searching http://www.cartoonmonkey.com/TabTip_TamerV3.htm

its called TabTipTamer_V3.exe and I haven't explored it fully but its worth a shot... and sound pretty cool.


EDIT: Also this problem is so weird!!! It cant be hardware! It just cant... If so many people have it and if its intuos4, if more than a handful of people are having this issue that means somethings wrong, all our pens can't be defective.
So if its software... what must we do?!

I wish I could install my Intuos4 on a mac or something, I'm going to install it on different computers and see what happens.

I hope a lot of people click on this because I think a lot of people may have this issue and not realize it.
I really regret selling my intuos3, although it may have the same problem now but at least i could test it out...
need to do a survey.

I'll keep you guys posted, anyone who is dealing with this shoelace effect, thanks for the input. it is invaluable! Thanks again.

[ikken]

^ I made some screencaps, hope this helps:
first, you go into "about" window and see this:

hold control and click the "diagnose" button, you should see this:

note added "recalibrate" button and pressure offset

but I'm not sure it's available for intuos 4, because wacom are known for software locking some driver features.

[Arshes Nei]

I tried with the latest drivers, and no such luck on either the intuos3 or intuos5.

I wasn't able to get the offset with Windows7 with an earlier driver before I installed the latest one (since I use an intuos3 with a laptop) either.

[ikken]

^ that's strange, I have it working with both mac os and windows xp.
by the way, there's a similar issue with intuos 3 described on wacom boards
(did anyone from this thread post there as well?) -
http://forum.wacom.eu/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8647&start=0
wacom's reply at the 2nd page suggests it might be a pen defect.

[Shahan]

I tried with the latest drivers, and no such luck on either the intuos3 or intuos5.

I wasn't able to get the offset with Windows7 with an earlier driver before I installed the latest one (since I use an intuos3 with a laptop) either.

Thats odd, but could be windows7?

^ that's strange, I have it working with both mac os and windows xp.
by the way, there's a similar issue with intuos 3 described on wacom boards
(did anyone from this thread post there as well?) -
http://forum.wacom.eu/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8647&start=0
wacom's reply at the 2nd page suggests it might be a pen defect.

Very strange indeed, ikken i have Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit on a Dell Laptop with an Intuos 4 medium with the same exact driver as yours.

I'll try again with just ctrl when i get home... also i have virtual machine Windows XP on my laptop so ill install it there too it should work there.
I really wish I could do it on windows 7 though. Does anyone know if you can boot just and only Windows XP if you have it via virtual machine on something that primarily runs windows 7? as in ... i could boot up from XP?
Cuz that would be great!

That "recalibrate" button looks like the answer!!! but I've been having fun in Painter12 ... i dont think its better or worse than Photoshop its just suits my fancy. Although painter 12 is a bit laggy for my 4gbRAM laptop.

Anyway thanks for the screens I appreciate it!

EDIT: after looking at the intuos3 thread i'm worried and confused... So it may just be a pen defect... i had more faith in Wacom, i didnt think so many people would have received hardware defective pens...
hmmm... If youre wacom warranty is out can you still send in for repairs? also I may buy an art pen...to solve this.. they look cool

[Arshes Nei]

Although painter 12 is a bit laggy for my 4gbRAM laptop.

Depends on the update you have for Painter 12 but the latest version is 12.1.1250

Go to Edit, Preferences, General. Set the cores down to 1.

Sounds like the problem IS W7 related with the shoelace effect though.

[Shahan]

Depends on the update you have for Painter 12 but the latest version is 12.1.1250

Go to Edit, Preferences, General. Set the cores down to 1.

Sounds like the problem IS W7 related with the shoelace effect though.

oh wow. i did that the core is set to 1, it helps! thanks! i have 12.1.727

i got all the updates from the site... how do you get .1250?

Also youre running win7 with wacom intuos3 and no issue like the shoelace?
just wanted to make sure.
thanks for this

EDIT: wait nvm... my windows program viewer says .727 but when i open Corel and go to "about" i see version 12.1.1250 ... odd lol


ahhhh good ol' Corel Painter 12. Strokes look good, now if i could just work hard and get better at art.....

[HugeBlack]

@ Sporus

You can re-calibrate all brushes at once by going to Edit>Preferences>Brush Tracking or just CTRL+Shift+,. When you do this the changes affect all the brushes instead of just one. You don't have to re-calibrate your brushes every time, painter saves the last re-calibration you did.

Ha i see you are enjoying painter's inking. I recommend you try the Smooth Camel brush. You'll love it. That's what i use.

My scratch board shows just the blue colour dots. I think his is the Mac's.

Yeah Painter is an amazing piece of software. I would be the defacto digital artists tool if only they are able to clean it up a bit. As cool as painter is i don't use it when i have close deadlines or in a bad mood.

[Shahan]

@ Sporus

You can re-calibrate all brushes at once by going to Edit>Preferences>Brush Tracking or just CTRL+Shift+,. When you do this the changes affect all the brushes instead of just one. You don't have to re-calibrate your brushes every time, painter saves the last re-calibration you did.

Ha i see you are enjoying painter's inking. I recommend you try the Smooth Camel brush. You'll love it. That's what i use.

My scratch board shows just the blue colour dots. I think his is the Mac's.

Yeah Painter is an amazing piece of software. I would be the defacto digital artists tool if only they are able to clean it up a bit. As cool as painter is i don't use it when i have close deadlines or in a bad mood.

Thank YOU!!! sooo useful... calibrated all brushes, the blue dots thing was in my mind too... also
"i don't use it when i have close deadlines or in a bad mood."

and yeahhh... it is a little rough, why is that for you? lag and stuff?
ive got it fully updated and whatnot and cores set to 1. i have RAM usage at 50% , my laptop has an i3 processor and 4gb ram... its still quite laggy, especially with the eraser... anyway it was weird i opened up PS CS5 and it must've noticed i was using painter... it was pretty smooth lol.

I might be getting one of the new iMacs if money dictates, , thanks again that was helpful

[ikken]

^ mac painter 12 still doesn't have 64-bit support.
it should be added before painter 13 rolls out, but I was really disappointed by 12's performance tbh.

[Quigleyer]

I have a shoelace problem, I was wrong it wasn't my nibs (or at least isn't anymore). Was stunted for a brief while, but now came back with a vengeance. Nvidia card as well.

Painter is AWESOME for lines, still.

But this seems to be photoshop related, and not Wacom related, I totally agree.

EDIT: And though not completely related to the problem at hand, but possibly related to it being a graphics card issue- does anyone else have incredibly jagged edges at certain resolutions? I mean like REALLY ugly looking pixelated edges? I zoom in a level or 2 and it smooths out. Yes, anti-aliasing is on, no I haven't zoomed in past 100%.