Snakey things

[Chris-Garrett]

Hi,

I have been faffing about with some thumbnailing tonight. Mainly involving snakey-things. Comments on composition etc and whether any of them are worth further exploration greatly received

Original thumbs below:

[Eldinga]

I prefer the ones to the left, personally. I do not have a lot to add when it comes to composition (as I suck at it) but I would definitely lower the snakeys a lot in all the images. Not certain how to explain, but each coil of the snakes could benefit a little from being a little closer to the ground. Most of these look like they're defying gravity in those poses. When 'standing' up, snakes have a lot more squarey poses and you could definitely take out those corners.

[Eldinga]

I prefer the ones to the left, personally. I do not have a lot to add when it comes to composition (as I suck at it) but I would definitely lower the snakeys a lot in all the images. Not certain how to explain, but each coil of the snakes could benefit a little from being a little closer to the ground. Most of these look like they're defying gravity in those poses. When 'standing' up, snakes have a lot more squarey poses and you could definitely take out those corners.

[Chris-Garrett]

Thank you for the feedback Eldinga. I chose the top left thumb to work on some more. I'm aiming for more of a serpent look than a pure snake, and I want it to be rearing up. The creature will look alien. Maybe I could add some extra coils or spindly limbs in to provide the support that is missing - some more experimentation is required.

Anyway, here is the thumb as it stands currently. I'm still interested in comments about the composition - I'm trying to get the eye to move around the canvas in a roughly circular manner, and for the focus to be the snake. The crashed craft in the distance will be the secondary focus.

The whole thing feels slightly lopsided to me at the moment though. Possibly because of the shape of the cave.

Also, looking ahead to a future version of this piece, I would be grateful if anyone has any advice on how to render the light through the sail-fin things (I envision them like flaps of skin that can be used for cooling the creature in the desert heat). I think it will be tricky to get the effect of the sun behind them (assuming I dont move the lightsource of course).

Thank you,

Chris.

[Chris-Garrett]

After some more experimentation, I think that it was the balance of light and dark that was out. I've removed the desert for now and thrown in a darker background and it looks a lot more cohesive to me (although now I think it may be too dark...)

Any comments / advice / opinions gratefully received!

Chris

[LordLouis]

Hmmm... I think you should watch Feng Zhu's video on composition:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl1Vu...eature=related

He talks about foreground middleground background- just look at your thumbnail after watching the video and think where you would place number 1, 2 and 3. I reckon you will have trouble distinguishing them.

That's all from my part, sorry!

[tesorone]

I like the bottom right one, but I feel like there's something missing in the left upper corner..like sunlight or something? And I really like the angle and perspective on the top right one, and I you move the snaky thing (just the curvy bit) a bit to the right I think this one could be awesome!

[tesorone]

sorry meant bottom left!

[Chris-Garrett]

LordLouis: I think that is probably one of the most useful series of instructional art videos I have ever seen. Thank you for pointing me at it. I don't think I can possibly take in everything that was covered immediately but hopefully you can see some improvement in the below thumb

Tesorone: Thank you for you comments. I may well work on the top-right thumb soon because I think it has some potential too. Plus, it would be a challenge for me to paint

[tesorone]

yeah! do it!! challenges are good good luck on both you pics!

[Chris-Garrett]

I've added a splash of colour and hopefully improved the sense of depth with a couple of human figures and a more defined spaceship in the background.

Crits welcome!

[Chris Sanders]

Hey chris,

nice idea, i think however with the snake creature i thin you have a great oppertunity to show depth by leading the character from foreground to middleground with the body. while showing how large the snake actually is by having it dominate space in the foreground. heres a quick example of what i mean, sorry its a bit rough.

[Chris-Garrett]

Thank You Dog-faced. that is a rather fine idea. I felt that the cave was rather constricting, surrounding the entire image , and bringing the snake into the foreground allowed me to widen the cave off the right of the canvas. I think this is better, but still needs some work to really pop.

[Chris Sanders]

i'm still not sure which part of the snake is where, is that his tail coming back out of the cave to the left? ih you want the illusion of the snake coming out of the cave you probably want the tail still behind the camera. also you might want to repaint the snake so it isn't flat side-on. if you do that it looks kinda forced. also back to the depth thing, if you want the snake to read both massive and in different planes of the picture; then your going to want that part cloeset to the viewer a lot thicker than the part off in the middle ground. also you have the part of the snake out in the sunlight the same value as the part in the cave, when in reality the part in the cave would be much darker in comparison.

heres an image by maciej kuciara, one of my favourite concept artists, this image might give you a couple ideas of lighting, just emagine how much lighter and more of the dragon would be visable if his head where out of the cave, he wouldnt be as bright as the woman; but would be much closer than how he apears in the cave.

[Chris-Garrett]

Thank You for your help with this one Dog-faced

I knew where I wanted the tail to go, but I hadn't really though how obvious that would be to the viewer. I was envisioning the snake coiled around itself, but it is a much better idea to have it moving out of the cave. Hopefully this next image is better.

I have also paid a bit more attention to the values and turned the serpent to face away from the camera more. What do you all think? Is this worth working up into a full painting yet? How is the composition, and value range?

[Chris Sanders]

snake is a hell of a lot better, im still not sure on the coiled thing, you want to lead the viewer into the image and that cross from the coil sort of destroyes that. the whole head part is much better. however get some reference for the snakes under-belly, its a different material to the rest of it. maybe experiment with the man and the ship, there still a bit uninteresting.

[Chris-Garrett]

Hmm. My intention was for your eye to start at the snakes head, and then if you followed down the snakes body the coil would pull your eye around to the right and up back towards the ship and the little man.

Maybe some slight slight repositioning of the snakes body and some redesign of the rock to push the eyes in the right directions would also help? I like the coil of the snake and I'm pretty sure I can make it work within the composition. I'm at work at the moment so I cant do anything about it now, but hopefully I'll get some time tonight.

I agree I need to work on the snake and the ship. the patterning on the snake is basically a placeholder to show its shape but I want something a bit more alien than it is currently. the ship looks too cartoony still but I was thinking that was something I could work on in the full size painting since it is a relatively small piece of the composition.

[Chris-Garrett]

I've tried to improve the flow of the picture with the rock formations, and brought the man forward (although the pose is very quick because I've run out of time tonight. I'll probably change it).

I was faffing around with some colour too but it looked rubbish so I've not posted it here.

Comments and Crit gratefully received!

Thanks, Chris.

[Chris-Garrett]

I did some more experimentation. I tried moving the spaceman forward to the cave entrance and turning the head of the snake towards him but it spoilt the flow of the painting. I've settled with bringing him slightly forward and having a slightly different shuttle design that will probably change quite a bit in the final painting

comments please I think this is ready for me to develop at a higher resolution unless anyone points out a glaring compositional error.

[Venger]

I think you need a bigger break - a greater divide between light/dark to help separate your elements.
I'd move your spaceman back towards the 'snakes' focus (which you need to make clearer to the viewer.)
I also suggest you have a think about your snake beast. The webbing on the back suggests (to me) a water type creature, perhaps more spines and horns (check out desert lizards for cool inspiration) - it might also clear up the 'intent'.
At the moment your snake seems quite a nice fellow, just coming out to see what all the noise is about rather than an opportunist predator (I'm guessing thats what you are after?)
I don't think you've got your camera in the right place, I'd push it closer to the snake, so we're really following the snakes vision...actually its easier if I show you.
This is how I would attempt this (not saying that makes it 100% right)
Hope it helps

[Chris-Garrett]

Thank You Venger! Your paintover is really useful. I definitely (think I) see what you mean about the break so I'll revisit the painting with that in mind. I also really like the way you have extended the wall of the cave behind the snake to achieve that.

I am hoping to maintain the coils in the foreground, because they are my favorite part of the picture in some ways (a dangerous game I know, since I may end up detracting from the whole) but I can definitely see how bringing the snake even closer to the camera helps the dynamism of the composition.

I'll also look at combining the spaceman and ship into a single point of focus, and I agree the snake should look more aggressive / suited to an arid climate.

I've just realised this is my second snake-related picture critiqued here (fourth if you count restarts of the first picture). I do draw other things, honest!

[Chris-Garrett]

Well here is the latest iteration. I've obviously tried to take a number of cues from Vengers paintover. I've completely changed the crash site and moved the spaceman so he is more of an obvious focus for the snake.

I agree totally about what Venger said about the snake being a nice fellow. So I let the previous snake (who was called "Mr Pickles") go off to have tea with Winnie the Pooh and replaced him with a more horny version (can I say that?)

I've kept the sail though, since I envisioned the snake to use it as a cooling mechanism (like Dimetrodon did). I intend to render it as though it is thicker than webbing. We'll see how it goes.

I have pushed the camera in a little, but not as much as Venger did, and I added a bit of grit being thrown up for some more impression of movement.

Comments please! I'm really enjoying developing this one even if it is taking me ages

[Chris Sanders]

this is looking much better. i would try to up resolution and work on the man as he feels quite cartooney. in vengers paintover he looks unaware that the snake is there, which is much creepier, in yours hes got that typical bent knees embrace posture that gives of a different read. depends what your after. im loving the new smoke and composition, however i think you could tidy up the rock wall on the left. make it more like the texture on the right, but also retain that rim light look. try geting some reference. also try to lose the outline on the snake, that'll make it more realistic.

good job, keep it up!

[Chris-Garrett]

I've scaled up, played about with the colour palette a bit. I still need to do some work to make it feel more coherent. I'm not sure I'll keep it this saturated but I do like the orange sky. The spaceman is now facing the craft so he cant see the snake, and I've started working on the snakes features a bit more.

There is still a lot to do but how do you feel its coming on? I only get about 30-60 minutes each night to work on this if I'm lucky, and I'm still very slow with photoshop, so I know its going slowly

[Thoolhoo]

I suggest strongly having a look at Forging Dragons by John Howe. You can find it HERE

[Chris-Garrett]

Looks like a good book. I've ordered it

[Chris-Garrett]

Some more rendering. Please let me know what you think

[Chris-Garrett]

Some more work...

[Chris-Garrett]

I printed a previous version out and realised just how dark it was, so I've lightened the image and started to bring in some more blue and green tones. A few more details, and the ship has completely changed.

Comments please

[Chris Sanders]

Hey mate,

this is looking a hell of a lot better. love the new ship and tweaks to the monster serpent thing.

a couple of ideas. first of all i would make sure some of that rock overlaps the ship to reinforce the distance and composition.
also, throwing a curve ball here; is the man really necessary. i think it changes the illustration slightly, more curiosity than hunting on the snakes part. it might make the illustation more thought provoking. I like the small moving parts youve added to the creatures underside, make it more gastly and shell fish like. however id grab some reff and think about your light source in realation to the form. also the rocks to the top right seem level with the ship/man. try making them darker and add lighter rimlight to them. contrast and sharpness are great ways to comunicate depth, dont make them more overpoweringly detailed, but i think they read to washy and distant at the moment.

Also you've spent a lot of time on this peace and its really improved a lot. youve also taken advice on well, both things you should be commended on. so... good work, keep at it!