Must read.

[LAG]

Saw this posted on Muddy Colors today...

“Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through.”

― Ira Glass

[Saramel]

Mmm, yes, that is a great post!

[OmenSpirits]

okay.

[MidgardSerpent]

But.... beginners don't have 'killer' taste or instincts, at least most of them don't. It's not solely an issue of technical deficiency , they also still have to develop their sensibilities and discover who they are and what they want from their work, through their work.


And you have to do a lot of work to become good? Nahhhh.

[Kya Hill]

Yea. It's also getting around on facebook.

[Flashback]

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/

[Dusty]

And you have to do a lot of work to become good? Nahhhh.

I'm confused.
You were awesome the first day you put a pencil to paper?
Or are you just being sarcastic.

[OmenSpirits]

Sarcasm

[Conniekat8]

Something I noticed in my foundation classes is that a lot of teachers do tell students just this... but for many, it flies right over their heads.

I think youngsters just don't have the life experience to appreciate what the teachers tell them, it goes in one ear and out the other.

I'm sure I was the same way in my late teens and early 20's. (my first go around in college)

[ikken]

art is what happens between alt-tabbing itunes and facebook, everyone telling otherwise is a mean jealous looser

[Chronos]

I wouldn't consider dragon ball art 'killer' taste. Toriyama's the man though.

And that entire post could be summarized in one word; practice.
These topics are funny. If you can't put the effort, you never really wanted it anyway. All this motivational text can push you so far, the real motivator is that nagging voice in the back of your head that compels you to put the pencil against the paper and make marks, and you're not really sure why. Not the other voice that tells you that you can garner attention and page views with your work on deviantart.

[Aurora=]

This is the best, I totally agree and I appreciate that you shared this.
Thank you very much.

[JFierce]

Taste is relative. It doesn't mean all your old taste will change. I still like Toriyama and Dragon Ball.


But seeing shitty fanart I would have thought wasn't bad back in the day and now find as ....well.... ... shitty..... is because I learned more. It's hard to like something now when it looks like they're bones would be broken, or they have no form at all and are flat.

[Conniekat8]

I wouldn't consider dragon ball art 'killer' taste. Toriyama's the man though.

And that entire post could be summarized in one word; practice.
These topics are funny. If you can't put the effort, you never really wanted it anyway. All this motivational text can push you so far, the real motivator is that nagging voice in the back of your head that compels you to put the pencil against the paper and make marks, and you're not really sure why. Not the other voice that tells you that you can garner attention and page views with your work on deviantart.

In one of my classes, one of my teachers asked me in passing (on my way to the bathroom)... so, what are you looking to do one day, become a major artist? Why do you want to do this?.

Getting startled with a question like that, in an awkward moment I had to give a very gut feeling answer, and it turned out to be "Because I would go crazy if I didn't do this. If I become a major artist in the process, that would be a nice bonus."

[Presentliving]

So... we have to get over our taste to produce better work? Is that what it's saying?

[Elwell]

So... we have to get over our taste to produce better work? Is that what it's saying?

Reading comprehension fail.

[blogmatix]

But.... beginners don't have 'killer' taste or instincts, at least most of them don't.

Perhaps not, but they probably still have more taste than the average person, in the sense that they have taste at all. They like art, they know what they like, perhaps they even know why they like it. In my experience, the average bloke is just not all that interested in art at all, and while he may be deeply impressed with technically well executed work, he seldom has any actual taste.

It should be said, mind you, that taste develops not just through making art, but also through looking at lots and lots of it. Just as taste in music can develop to a very high level through listening to a lot of it, even if you never compose any yourself or indeed even learn to play an instrument.

Lots of non-artists, non-musicians and non-writers have very well developed tastes. (I prefer the term "well-developed taste" to "good taste" because it is less subjective and more neutral.)

Getting startled with a question like that, in an awkward moment I had to give a very gut feeling answer, and it turned out to be "Because I would go crazy if I didn't do this. If I become a major artist in the process, that would be a nice bonus."

I have on many occasions in the past quite deliberately made the conscious decision to quit - just couldn't take the frustration and constant sense of failure anymore, and decided it just isn't worth it. And then, within a week, would find myself scribbling drawings while sitting in a boring meeting, or looking at a pigeon in the street and find myself noticing the way in which its shape would practically beg me to draw it.

I sometimes curse the day that art began holding this fascination for me. Seems unfair of ye gods to give me this burning desire without any hint of actual talent - I more or less constantly feel like the fictional Salieri in the film "Amadeus." :-)

But there you go: my answer would be the same. I go more nuts when I am not doing it than when I am. And I estimate that haven't put in even half of the ten thousand hours yet, that the average, non-genius apprentice apparently needs to in order to become somewhat competent.

Part of the trick is to learn to become self-critical without beating yourself up, I think. And to tell your inner Salieri to go fuck himself.

[Conniekat8]

I have on many occasions in the past quite deliberately made the conscious decision to quit - just couldn't take the frustration and constant sense of failure anymore, and decided it just isn't worth it. And then, within a week, would find myself scribbling drawings while sitting in a boring meeting, or looking at a pigeon in the street and find myself noticing the way in which its shape would practically beg me to draw it.

Isn't that interesting how it happens
I don;t have a tendency to quit, other then occasionally developing a mild avoidance of more difficult things - which usually before to long irritates me into pushing through it.

I sometimes curse the day that art began holding this fascination for me. Seems unfair of ye gods to give me this burning desire without any hint of actual talent - I more or less constantly feel like the fictional Salieri in the film "Amadeus." :-)

But there you go: my answer would be the same. I go more nuts when I am not doing it than when I am. And I estimate that haven't put in even half of the ten thousand hours yet, that the average, non-genius apprentice apparently needs to in order to become somewhat competent.

Part of the trick is to learn to become self-critical without beating yourself up, I think. And to tell your inner Salieri to go fuck himself.

One day I was bellyaching to one of my teachers about how I'm not sure if I 'belong' because I'm not one of those super talented people, and that I expect any minute someone (with authority) will tell me to get out of dodge and don't waste my time.

He promptly kicked my bum explaining how 'super talent' is not required, and how it is much more important that I have the drive and the heart for it.

Also, some of the people who seems super talented (in school), often aren't really super talented, but just had a chance to start earlier.

speaking of beating myself up... OMG, do I do it aplenty, and constantly. Oddly the effect it has on me is to obsess about 'getting something done right.' It has a tendency to make me spend a lot of time on something...

What I did hate is when someone critiques a piece, and notices things that I already knew I should have fixed.... That has a tendency to run me into the ground, because it validates my 'inner Salieri' - I like how you put that. Critique that mentions things that I wouldn't have noticed on my own, I like.

Considering all these psychological flips and twists I go through, I'm really good I chose the school route. It makes me not fall into avoidance pitfalls, and it's great to have skilled teachers give you a motivational kick in the bum when you need it for one reason or another.

[JFierce]

For me there's a difference between quit as in giving up trying to do art as a career and giving up art in general. I gave up my drive to try to become an artist for a check a long time ago, could tell I didn't have what it takes. If I somehow over time develop to a point I could maybe get paid for it cool, if not, not a big deal.

I'll never give up art just for enjoyment. I'll be 80 years old with arthritis probably and still try to doodle away on a napkin. Though in all honesty once I didn't have the weight of trying to go pro to survive and compete it became a lot less burdening to try studies, or do this and that. Just more fun.

[blogmatix]

Also, some of the people who seems super talented (in school), often aren't really super talented, but just had a chance to start earlier.

Well, sometimes. A few days ago I was supervising a bunch of sixth-graders during their study period, when the ones who have homework do it and the others keep themselves busy with a book or whatever will not make a noise.

I noticed this one kid copying drawings from a manga book. He is almost as good at it as I, and I have been practicing my skills for more than twice as long as he has been alive. Another few years, and if he keeps at it he is going to reach a level I will never reach no matter what I do.

You can imagine the field day my inner Salieri had with my ego. Of course, it lasted only a few minutes: ole Salieri is now once again sitting and sulking in his corner, where I sent him to go cool off a bit... ;-)

[blogmatix]

For me there's a difference between quit as in giving up trying to do art as a career and giving up art in general. I gave up my drive to try to become an artist for a check a long time ago, could tell I didn't have what it takes. If I somehow over time develop to a point I could maybe get paid for it cool, if not, not a big deal.

I'll never give up art just for enjoyment. I'll be 80 years old with arthritis probably and still try to doodle away on a napkin. Though in all honesty once I didn't have the weight of trying to go pro to survive and compete it became a lot less burdening to try studies, or do this and that. Just more fun.

Yup, it is exactly like that with me. I'm not sure I'd necessarily want to be a professional artist even if I had the skills - the thought of having to paint eight hours a day does not appeal to me (for the same reason I also do not want to be a professional musician, despite liking music and actually having quite a bit of talent for it.)

It might well be nice to eventually earn a bit of extra cash by selling paintings, and I would certainly not complain about that. But I find that being a committed amateur instead of a wannabe professional has exactly the same advantage for me as it does for you: I now actually enjoy my art far more, and I think I am even making better progress too.

There is far more reason for making art than just making money. If nothing else, it greatly improves one's appreciation of great art. It allows you to see through the bullshit of some of the worst excesses of modern "art." It improves your memory of things you have seen: making a drawing or indeed even a very quick sketch of a landscape or other scene and you will still remember it vividly years later (one of the weird and very much unintended consequences of the camera has been that people nowadays probably remember LESS of their holidays than they used to in the days when they made sketches instead of taking a gazillion quick and easy holiday snapshots!)

If you are at all marginally competent, art can also save you money come Christmas time: I often give family and friends portraits of their kids etc., and these are usually far more appreciated than some expensive but generic, mass-produced thing would have been. I also enjoy making handmade greeting cards, in the form of simple little watercolor sketches glued to blank cards, and once again it is something unique that the recipient cannot buy in a shop.

As amateur, I am not much concerned with making art that will last for centuries either, thus the materials are cheap - at this point little more than HB pencil and printer paper, and on the rare occasions when I paint, I use student oils on pieces of cardboard cut from old boxes and primed with a layer of acrylic, or, if it is intended to last a bit longer, cheap Masonite off-cuts from a local hardware shop, similarly primed with a layer or two of white acrylic.

Considering how much joy and meaning I get from it, it is actually astonishingly cheap, if you compare it to movies or concerts or going on holidays.

It's the same with my musical activities: I had an initial big cash outlay in the form of a digital piano, but that was more than twenty years ago and after all the years it is still serving me well. Sheet music I get for free on the web or I compose my own.

This sort of creative hobby, where you are an active participant, seems to me just infinitely more satisfying a spiritually uplifting than having someone else's entertainment merely wash over you. Despite the fact that it can sometimes be very frustrating.

[Presentliving]

Reading comprehension fail.

Yes. That's exactly why I was asking.

[LAG]

I sometimes curse the day that art began holding this fascination for me. Seems unfair of ye gods to give me this burning desire without any hint of actual talent

I once bought a beautiful handmade acoustic guitar, because I had a burning desire to be able to play...I sold it after a month. I channeled that burning desire back into a creative outlet that I was decent at (graphic design) and haven't looked back since. Now I am trying to expand it by rediscovering the art i left behind once I started my professional design career and got married (painting, drawing, etc...) I am sitting here wondering why I ever let it go, but thankful I can still give it a shot. I found and old tube of Titanium White the other day and it was like finding an old friend.

I mainly posted this because: A. it is good for us all to keep in mind, but B. I look at many of the people posting in the WIP section who have a horrible grasp on the foundations of art and are already posting digital paintings asking about how their lighting looks, how's my color completely ignoring the fact that their piece is completely lacking in the fundamentals. If I could say one thing and have people get it, it would be this:

Slow down, step back and take an objective look at where you really are, and build from there. you get better by working on things you need to work on. Painting in photoshop wont help you with your anatomy issues, or your bad composition.

Here's a question: Do you believe there is a point where you say to someone. This just isn't for you? I had a professor in my foundations of art class, that wouldn't pass students who couldn't grasp the basics of perspective, or struggled with value. Just curious, because I tell graphic designers(I know this is a bit different) this all the time. The problem is, when they get to me, they've already been through school, and noone told them before that they will have a difficult time making money at it.

[Saramel]

Here's a question: Do you believe there is a point where you say to someone. This just isn't for you?

That is an excellent question. I wonder, when people say "anyone can do it, it's never too late, you just need to work", is there really no one that they would see and say "you probably won't be able to do this". And then, there's always that horrible feeling in the back of my throat, when someone tells me I just need to keep working, that they are just too optimistic of the potential of every human being to tell me that I probably won't get there. And, I'll admit, sometimes (but very very very rarely) I see work by a beginner who stubbornly defends their work, and someone else comments that they just need to keep working, and I feel relieved and admittedly a bit guilty that there's someone out there who has infinitely more confidence in this person that I do.

[Izene]

Very inspiring, thank you

[meirou]

Very inspiring post. I'm in that phase, when I create a piece of art it never lives up to my expectations, or the ideal I had in my head. I cant wait for the day when I can finally achieve this.

[blogmatix]

Here's a question: Do you believe there is a point where you say to someone. This just isn't for you?

Yup: Say it to everyone, right at the beginning. Was it Harold Speed who said something along the lines of "The only ones worth encouraging are those who won't be discouraged"?

The problem is perhaps the word "this" in the sentence "This just isn't for you." Because "this" can mean anything from being a full-time, professional artist to enthusiastic amateur to occasional hobbyist. Even if you accept you will never be a professional, you might still break your head trying to reach accomplished amateur level. :-)

Can't say I have any answers. On the one hand, if you give up too easily you may never achieve anything. On the other hand, one has to be realistic too. It can be difficult to decide whether one is being unrealistic or just very determined.

Years ago, I did a B degree in botany. To anyone who now asks me for advice on what to study, I say: whatever you do, don't do a B degree in botany. It does about as much good to your chances for finding meaningful employment as a criminal record. But of course, there are many out there who go on to do what I failed to do, namely also complete a master's and/or doctorate, and go on to become happy professional botanists.

So my only real advice is: I don't have a clue. Neither does anyone else.

[Rhubix]

They also don't tell beginners that as you get better your taste does too - a good artist never reaches a place where they love their work.
There's always more to learn, more to study, and someone better than you.
The day you love everything you do is when you stop getting better.

[OmenSpirits]

They also don't tell beginners that as you get better your taste does too - a good artist never reaches a place where they love their work.
There's always more to learn, more to study, and someone better than you.
The day you love everything you do is when you stop getting better.

Then Rob Liefeld must SLEEP with his drawings like a dog in heat!

[Professional Jouster]

Then Rob Liefeld must SLEEP with his drawings like a dog in heat!

Well played sir, well played.

This quote is great because i've been struggling with the same thing. Nothing I draw feels satisfactory. I think on top of that, i've developed a bad habit of trashing my work in anticipation of someone else coming along with negative comments and criticisms. Its getting quite tiring.