"Red wine" (done...)

[Lhune]

The main problem I've got with your sketch is not so much how thin the waist is (because there are girls who have exceptionally tiny waists, it's not the norm and I personally think it's scary but they do exist), but how she doesn't seem to have any hip bones. Look at the butt pictures again; the curve of their hips is -outward- towards the waist, and doesn't turn inward until it almost reaches the waist.

[elemile]

OK, this is it: I'm at my limit, once again; I don't know what to do, anymore.

HALP, please.

[elemile]

Tried to improve over the last correction...
The adittional clear zones near her waist and legs were supposed to be the guy's silhouete (in the shadows), but I ruined it while trying to correct her; I'll get that righ later.
I'm also thinking about showing more of her arms (and hands, maybe over his chest or one of his shoulders, or grabing his arm).

[elemile]

The hands I'm about to attach to the most recent version...

[elemile]

Options for the girl's hands.
Opinions/critiques appreciatted.

[elemile]

Finally working on this again: nth attempt on the girl...

The gap somehow made his way back, by using another reference (and putting panties on her). However, I hope the entire posture is working better, now; let me know what you think.

Thanks.

[Lhune]

The gap between her legs is too exaggerated and you've made the same mistake with the curves. Look at your reference again and closely examine the directions of the outer edges of her body. You can definitely see the outward curve of her ribcage on the right side, which you turned into a completely inward curve.

Your girl's butt is also way too small. Notice how in the ref the buttcheek (to the top of the slip) makes up almost a third of the back. In yours it's about a fourth.

[elemile]

I'm not sure, but let's see...

[The Fez]

This thread has really gotten me interested in the science of booty construction. How does one draw a booty, exactly? Well, being the selfless martyr for art that I am, I spent some time developing some theories on bondonkadonk construction by performing considerable amounts of research. I'm probably not the first, and I will certainly not be the last person to attempt this, but perhaps my insight will provide some help in achieving an aesthetically pleasing back-side. Now, I'm not an expert at this stuff, and there's probably a lot of people out there who can draw derrieres with more precision than I, and, of course, I'm open to correction from the multitude of ass-masters on this forum.

First, the observations I made from your work:



The best way to develop, I think, a pronounced booty is develop it in a series of overlapping curves. Like any other part of the body, the Gluteus maximus overlaps with and connects to other muscles, and it's going to help (tremendously) to indicate these relationships to some degree.

Here's another proportional diagram that was built on-top of a photograph, and more accurate than the one I eyeballed on the previous example:



You can understand the booty as two overlapping ellipses, and then two more -smaller- ellipses of the same shape can represent to the gluteus medius. Drawing lines between the intersections will produce an isosceles triangle. Basically, the triangle becomes the direct proportional modifier for everything else. The second smaller triangle represents the intersection of the thoracolumbar fascia into the gluteus maximus and glueteus medius that typically results in those cute little dimples everybody likes.

But just knowing proportions won't get you poppin' booty in yo drawings, dawg. For that, you would need to know what produces booty pop:



The way you've drawn your character, it seems as though her spine and booty share a 90 degree relationship to the ground, and that's going to result in flat booty syndrome. Really, though, people generally stand with their backs arched to some degree, and if your character is embracing another, the arch is going to be intensified (most notably for drama's sake).

And, as you can see, the gluteus maximus demands -ahem- more attention in terms of booty to body ratio, and the outer curves tend to exaggerate, visually, the narrowness of the waist. Furthermore, the curves will overlap the waist, and terminate somewhere in the back.

I'll have to consider this topic more thoroughly and develop the anatomy further myself, but I hope that I've been helpful in the meantime.

EDIT: Oh yes, as someone had previously noted, BabeLab is the shizzle when it comes to developing sound strategies for the stylization of female anatomy. You will learn much there.

[Chris Sanders]

um i know your probably not bothered about this, but you should be. i read something earlier today that made me think. it was a sentance from andrew loomis' successful drawing. and it was (more or less) - "being careless is the sure mark of an amateur". saying that look at that males head, i know its a rough study, and i know its being covered up a fair deal; but it is still symmetrical and has perspective and all that jazz. look how different the halves of his face are.

*edit* - i also didn't see this second page, but its still revevant-ish

P.s - love the extensive research put in by fez on that anatomical area. a true specialist!

[elemile]

@The Fez
Yeah... actually my first refernce, for the original drawing, was a pretty famous one with many of the characteristics you've pointed out:

Now, for this one girl, althought still sexy, I didn't want her to "sell" that much, if you know what I mean (and also look a bit less developed, even if by the means of a mere reduction of volumes); and it's curious, because most of the previous corrections have been in the exact opposite direction: to somehow flatten dat ass, indeed, trying to make her look more straighten up and less curvy...

So I think I've gotta find some sort of balance between this two ways; but your booty and entire structural analysis, together with corrections like the scapula, neck and legs will sure help me a lot. Thank you.

@dog-faced
Well, that guy is ugly as f***, I can tell you (lol)... No, seriously: there's a tilt of the head going on there, wich might contribute to that dramatic asymmetry; but it still looks off, indeed (even the eyes alone), so I will give it a good adjusting as well in the next re-do. Thanks.

[elemile]

OK, I know I should have done this ages ago. Sorry...



However: althought most of her back will be covered by hair, the guy's hand and the poncho, please let's try to continue the corrections on the entire figure, since I was truly just guessing and now I realize I could learn much more from this thread than I ever thought.

Again: thank you very much to all you people for your interest and patient help.

(EDIT: mmhh... I screwed up the dorsals; well, I'm sure there's much more so we'll see)

[elemile]

General pencil drawing...



I already have an idea of the palette and the background (the blanket plain zones will be made in a dark/blood red); but safe from some line/tone refinement, this would be the main thing I'd be working with now on. Observations/corrrections still welcome.

Thanks.

[TinyBird]

Since you seem so hellbent on keeping that huge crotch chasm, I might ask about the foot. It seems unfinished and unstructured in almost all images and it's basically just a nub. Are you going to draw the toes visible (after all feet get wider towards the toes so the rest of the foot should be at least somewhat visible from behind) and I can't tell if she's holding her heel above the ground or what.

[elemile]

Messing with proportions, again: they both had become far too short...
I'm starting to think there might be a problem when shifting from my PC to my Laptop,
or by changing the extension (or my eyes are just tired, I don't know).

Will work on her feet later.

[elemile]

Possible elements for the background...

The final thing will have a poem related with wine, at the side.
The hawkmoth (Eumorpha vitis) is a plague of the vine plant
(Vitis vinifera).





...oh, and the foot:

[elemile]

Composition (likely) ready...
Will do some color tests and might start rendering soon.

[Voodoo_Mama]

I know it's not my place to say this, but I think it's kind of sad that you didn't choose to follow the crits given to you about the girl. From the guy's hand upward it looks really good and very well rendered, but then when you see the rest of her body...it's very weird, she's extremely skinny, not in a skinny sexy sort of way but more of a scary unrealistic skinny sort of way. The knees are very small, and don't look like could support her, and the lower leg is weird shaped too and extremely enlongated.
Sorry if this sounds rude, I did not meant it that way.
The rest of your image (the leafs, bugs and the guy and robe) look very good.

[elemile]

[elemile]

For good or bad, it's done; I know problems run deeper, but I did tried to fix her knee and the lenght of her legs.
Again: thank you VERY much for all your help. See you guys around.