Discussion on changing Art forum to 'How-To'

[OmenSpirits]

Please change the name of this sub-forum to 'How-to', because it will never be a forum of discussions anymore.

*sigh*




(Title change for better subject clarification).

[GHudston]

Perhaps a "How-to" section might be a good idea? There's clearly a demand for it.

[Chris Bennett]

please change the name of this sub-forum to 'How-to', because it will never be a forum of discussions anymore. :/

*sigh*

But what will happen to the art discussion?... Little of it that is left.

Better than 'How to' would be five sub forums:
1. How To.
2. Tips 'n' Tricks.
3. Do My Homework For Me.
4. For Those Whom Pressing The Search Button Is Too Much Effort.
5. Baby Sitting.

[Nezumi Works]

You forgot to include a new main-level forum about how abstract isn't art.

The FABULA guy could have a sub-forum in there.

[dpaint]

please change the name of this sub-forum to 'How-to', because it will never be a forum of discussions anymore. :/

*sigh*

It all my fault, I'm sooo mean no one wants to voice an opinion anymore. I've scared people away and ruined their blossoming careers...

[Elwell]

I'm sorry, isn't talking technique "art discussion?"
Would you prefer more interminable "what is art" threads?

[OmenSpirits]

I'm sorry, isn't talking technique "art discussion?"
Would you prefer more interminable "what is art" threads?

If techique means what one uses over how one does, which by all technicalities would go into a how-to section?

[Book Guru]

How about making two out of one:

- Art Discussion - GENERAL
- Art Discussion - TECHNIQUES

[OmenSpirits]

*cough*

[Chris Bennett]

Tryin' my best Omen...

[Arshes Nei]

But what will happen to the art discussion?... Little of it that is left.

Better than 'How to' would be five sub forums:
1. How To.
2. Tips 'n' Tricks.
3. Do My Homework For Me.
4. For Those Whom Pressing The Search Button Is Too Much Effort.
5. Baby Sitting.

6. How to receive lifetime critiques on your art without actually posting your art.

And the title should be that long too...Just so it scrolls across, and we can make it a scrolling and blinking marquee

[[email protected]]

While we're at it, can we change the subject of this thread to something more descriptive?

[mizunodave]

It has gotten remarkably bad lately. I don't mind those threads so much, there needs to be a place for them, but I worry that they're gonna run off the more experienced artists that have answered those questions a hundred times already.

It might actually be better for both sides if this forum was split in two and both renamed. The classic art discussion forum for the more experienced artists could be named something uninviting like Art History And Theory. Meanwhile an Art Discussion/How-To forum could grow to better meet the needs of the beginners and novices. I have to say, as a novice myself I don't ask as many questions as I'd like or answer as many as I could for fear of losing respect from the older members.

There are times when I could offer a more patient, if not as expert, guidance to beginners whose questions and problems I remember more keenly. Questions that I haven't grown tired of answering, questions that it would do me good to find clear ways to explain or demonstrate. There are also times when I would benefit from discussing and figuring things out with other artists closer to my level. I think we don't get as much of that as we could because of the intimidation factor with the more advanced artists here.

But that's just me, I may be alone on all that..

[Alice Herring]

please change the name of this sub-forum to 'How-to', because it will never be a forum of discussions anymore. :/

*sigh*

So why not start a discussion instead of complaining about the lack of it?

[OmenSpirits]

So why not start a discussion instead of complaining about the lack of it?

Because like most things in a discussion, it would tend to get lost in the shuffle of hurt feelings and sidetracks of other issues.

[Arshes Nei]

I don't know if separating the forums really solves the problem. "Us pros here, n00bs gtfo" isn't going to solve the overall problem.

The reasoning has to do with several things. People just have a natural tendency to help and a pro is still going to go to threads to see what they're about. In addition, we got a lot of forums, and given that this is a large site, more "I don't know where to put this" is going to happen.

The community mentoring forum...is that even used or really active...other than people asking for mentoring btw?

[dose]

It's possible the "Fine Arts" forum is the one that should be renamed. It's current title and description conflict from a certain perspective:

"FINE ARTS: The technical side to art. Get help with honing your skills."

[Chris Bennett]

dose has got my vote on this.

[Arshes Nei]

Fine Arts and (Personal) Studies?

[Qitsune]

How can anyone look at the front page of CA and think to themselves:" Hmmm this place doesn't have enough sections and subsections yet, better do something about it." It already looks like a cat barfed in a box of christmas ornaments. Not the design, the contents. It's full of useful stuff and useless stuff spread everywhere and loads of utter crap in between. Someone has a brain fart for an activity and a new section is made and it's never destroyed even 5 years after the last real person has posted (read, not a spammer.)

It's really sad because there are amazing resources on CA and a lot of very good artists worked very hard to put these informations here, and no one can find them because they are burried in crap.

If you think a section should exist, chances are it already does, and you just never saw it.

[Chris Bennett]

I don't think anyone is suggesting a new section Qitsune.
It's because you are right that a need is felt to better signpost what's what around here.

The point you make is precisely what's happened to the Art Discussion thread.
Tristan's right that weeding out the 'how to' connotations will inevitably lead to dozens of mini black hole threads appearing that collapse under their own weight into pointless WHAT IS ART singularities. (Jeez that awful sentence is disappearing up its own arse already!)

But it would be easier to hop over them than pick through piles of stuff that frankly belongs in the Critique Section or the a newly named 'FINE ARTS' section.

[Arshes Nei]

Well for example, one of the biggest reasons I had changed the Tips and Tricks section on stop asking for advice (though people can ask for it in the sticky thread up top), is that people would bury a lot of tips and tricks which ironically had the advice. It got really stupid.

Fine Arts should say "Fine Arts, Studies and Foundations" or at least something to that effect. It's been repeated that this section has the fundamentals to art making. It's probably one of the most informative sections that gets skipped by people.

A revamped welcome email that goes down the functions of each forum for newly registered users may help too. Needs some people to get together and write down the overview, and some proofreaders to cross check it before going live.

[kev ferrara]

I see the problem as a problem of the organization of back posts into something usable. The sheer amount of posts and the different ways everything is named has gone beyond unwieldy.

There should be a listing of common topics with quick access to all the threads that pertain to them, a simple Topic Directory with 20 topic-types only, say... And whatever key words that are searched for in the regular search engine should be re-directed to one of the 20 types of topics... any particular key word related to Art Discussion would funnel one into one of the 20 topic types.

This would entail that a directory be created with some minimum number of topic types. And that a few score of search terms would be assigned to respective topic types most likely to deal with the question. And that this directory should act as a heading to the Art Discussion forum, not just a sticky. And, possibly the stickies should be the first choices under their particularly relevant Topic Type.

These thoughts I have provided gratis, so do not yell at me for the gross coding stupidity I exhibit in introducing these impossible impossible suggestions.

[Conniekat8]

Because like most things in a discussion, it would tend to get lost in the shuffle of hurt feelings and sidetracks of other issues.

That happens in most discussions with opposing points of view, regardless of the forum or thread title.

From a point of view of a relative newcomer (less then a year of active participation) figuring out a purpose of various sub forums, and whether you are asking questions or posting in the right one can be a bit of daunting. Perhaps a way to increase number of topics ending up in correct forums is to make it clearer and faster to understand.

For all the talk we all exchange abut how, when doing portfolio sites, information should be clear and accessible etc... the way the forum is functioning is not quite there. I can see how once people get used to what is what, they can lose sight of what it looks like from a new person point of view.... and it appears that it's mostly new people that seem to end up in 'wrong spots'.

Fine Arts should say "Fine Arts, Studies and Foundations" or at least something to that effect. It's been repeated that this section has the fundamentals to art making. It's probably one of the most informative sections that gets skipped by people.

That might be a good idea. in my personal example, just starting to learn about art foundations, I would not be likely to participate anywhere near something labeled as 'fine arts' I don't see myself as belonging in that arena (yet).. .and a lot of new people who need to learn things, well, sometimes you don't know what you don't know, so 'fine arts' label can intimidate them.

[OmenSpirits]

That happens in most discussions with opposing points of view, regardless of the forum or thread title.

From a point of view of a relative newcomer (less then a year of active participation) figuring out a purpose of various sub forums, and whether you are asking questions or posting in the right one can be a bit of daunting.

Point.

On your second thought.

Newcomers never seem to have issues on other types of websites, amazon, TMZ, news sites, etc. but I get the feeling when they come here they expect instant knowledge without the work or research the rest of us have done.

And learning how to research was taught to us all in elementary/Highschool, no matter what level you made.

They know how to use google without being shown or taught, but figure they'd use it for learning related items and they become...less inclined.

[Conniekat8]

Point.

On your second thought.

Newcomers never seem to have issues on other types of websites, amazon, TMZ, news sites, etc. but I get the feeling when they come here they expect instant knowledge without the work or research the rest of us have done.

And learning how to research was taught to us all in elementary/Highschool, no matter what level you made.

They know how to use google without being shown or taught, but figure they'd use it for learning related items and they become...less inclined.

Yea I see that in a number of forums. I think it has to do with the implication that there are people here. Myself including, half the times I post rather then googling more is because sometimes a bit of interaction and conversation is nice. Sort of like, you can socialize and learn something at the same time.
OTOH, I know that same ole questions over and over and over again can be tiresome... maybe the noobs can be encouraged to stick around and pay it forward so to speak.... take over for those who answered the same question 300 times and are thoroughly sick of it.

But, I also see people who seem to have the expectation that everyone is supposed to jump in and help them... you know the type that posts and five minutes late goes... anyone? cn u help alrdy?

I don't know what can be done about the completely clueless ones.... smack them up side the head I guess.

Anyway, I'm mostly just thinking out loud here

[Voodoo_Mama]

I have no problem with the name of the Art Discussion forum, it may not be art discussion 100% of the time but that's...ok.

The one forum that confuses me is the Entertainment design and Concept forum.
People post their finished works, and also post their wips up for critique there, but then we have the Finally Finished forum and the Critique Center forum so...what exactly goes where? Are these two last forums just for illustration works?

[armando]

I've seen a digital outdoor painting thread in there with 5 stars. What the fuck?

[Dusty]

No more damn subforums. There's too many as it is.

[OmenSpirits]

*cough*