General Comics Thread

[Psychotime]

http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/the-new-52/

The first day of the new 52 has passed and the series have begun!

We can't really complain about it anymore (I know I tried) they've done it and there's no turning back. Might as well make the best of it.

So, what are people's thoughts on the current releases? And what do you plan on getting that's on the way in the coming weeks?

I rarely buy floppies, but I was interested enough to pick up a few.

• JLI looks interesting.
• Static Shock was ok.
• Green Arrow was ok, but I think the character looks too young now. He needs the beard!
• Batgirl looks decent. Still a shame it appears Oracle isn't canon anymore. I guess Barbara is walking again thanks to rehabilitation (nothing far fetched), it's not explicitly stated but whatever.
• Batwing was a bit gory (somewhat subdued in comparison to other things I've seen, thankfully), but it surprisingly kept me reading.
• I have yet to read the Morrison run, but the new Animal Man is interesting.
• Detective Comics, god damn was that final page really necessary? Other than that it was what you would expect, your run of the mill Batman vs Joker story. Nothing badly done.
• I was excited for Action Comics once I saw the preview and learned that Morrison was on board, but upon reading it I don't know what to make of it. I'll stick around to see how it all plays out.

Initially the only things I said I was gonna bother with were Action Comics, Static Shock, and Blue Beetle, but meh, I got sidetracked.

Ugh, Maybe I'll look at Green Lantern Corps, which releases on the 21st. C'mon, it's got Guy Garderner and John Stewart (no, not the real one). What better way to get into Green Lantern than those two in the same series?

[Psychotime]

New day!

I'll pick up the stuff I had on my list (only one or two things) tomorrow.

But c'mon! No one has something to add to this thread? Really?

[Arshes Nei]

I've strayed away from comics when there was a jump from 1.50 to 4 bucks for 32 pages. I understand things like print quality (using different stock of paper etc) but it became too much.

I had settled for Manga but even that has become limited.

I am interested in hearing how it is going though with superhero comics, but I'm usually more invested in any of the animation or movies that comes out these days.

[Psychotime]

Personally I hate buying floppies because they're too short, you need extra crap to maintain them, you can't put them on a bookshelf, and yeah, they're pretty expensive right now.

Trade collections are better in every single way.

At the end of this I'm just gonna give away the stuff I bought. If I ever go back to any those series, it's gonna be a trade paperback.

I'm honestly starting to think that floppies should just phase out altogether.

The Japanese stuff is basically the same thing, but worse, despite the things the do opposite of floppies. At least floppies don't have to be disposable (these days).

From what I've seen, Japanese comic magazines like Shonen Jump are printed on such horribly cheap recycled paper (but they make sure the ads are on something decent) that the stuff will just age horribly and you can't do a thing about it. The things are basically supposed to be recycled to make next week's magazine, not be collected or kept as souvenirs.

Of course as an American I can't really complain much, since all the Japanese stuff comes over here in trade format from the get go.

Truth be told, I would love to see an American publisher experiment with the serial anthology format Japan uses. Preferably a company that isn't fixed on one genre.

But I'm just moving away from the topic.

• Batman and Robin might have thrown in decent idea into the mix (not sure if other writers will pay attention to it), but it was ok.

[MidgardSerpent]

I've strayed away from comics when there was a jump from 1.50 to 4 bucks for 32 pages. I understand things like print quality (using different stock of paper etc) but it became too much.

You mean like 'regular'' Dc/marvel comics? I can't remember the time when I could buy a comic for $1.50 and there were quite a few price points over the years before they reached $4.00. I don't count the ads, so it's 22 pages, which is 4 dollars for like a 10 minute read. That's admittingly not the best bang for your buck. And you read comics for a long enough time you'll grow very tired of Batman putting the Joker back in Arkham, knowing full well he'll be out in the next week.

Personally I hate buying floppies because they're too short, you need extra crap to maintain them, you can't put them on a bookshelf, and yeah, they're pretty expensive right now.

Trade collections are better in every single way.

At the end of this I'm just gonna give away the stuff I bought. If I ever go back to any those series, it's gonna be a trade paperback.

I'm honestly starting to think that floppies should just phase out altogether.

I buy monthlies and trades. I just like dropping by my store once a month to get a nice stack of monthly comics. Trades I buy mostly online because they're cheaper.

I always thought a Jump-like magazine anthology would be very interesting for mainstream comics. They tried that with releasing Metal Hurlant (I believe) in America which had a lot of European-flavored stuff. I think it bombed though, unfortunately.



Not much to say about 52 yet, I've only read JLA #1 and the Flashpoint crossover which I thought was pretty bad. Lots of forced and hasty writing.
I'll give a few titles a try, mostly for some artists, like Greg Capullo on Batman and Rags Morales on Action Comics.

[Psychotime]

Blue Beetle was ok. Gonna read Batman next. I don't particularly like Greg Capullo, but I've heard really good things about Scott Snyder, and his interviews make him seem like a smart guy.

And what do you know, it's pretty decent! And I originally wasn't even planning on touching it at all! The only thing I'm kinda iffy on is how high tech Batman is now. I mean, yeah, it's 2011 and he's a billionaire, but I draw the line at electronic disguises (This is Batman, not Metal Gear Solid 4) and discreet long range lip reading machines.

I was expecting Jason Todd and the Outlaws to be pretty bad, but damn, according to Linkara, it's REALLY bad.

[Arshes Nei]

I think these two articles are kinda covering my feelings with this launch if this really what they're doing http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/0...-superheroine/


http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls...inreo1_500.png

[Psychotime]

They make a big deal out of rebooting everything, supposedly start from scratch (which is actually a bit of a lie), try to draw in NEW readers, and they let garbage like that go through.

I feel a silly rant coming on.

How? It should be common sense, given the superhero genre's existing reputation, to 100% do away with that kind of mess for the greater good of all parties involved. First for their own sake, as the point of this whole mess was to open to new audiences and MAKE MONEY off of more than just the loyal niche that's barely keeping you afloat. Second, for the sake of the genre, because for some time it's had the stereotype of being chock full of this kind of material, which has hurt the genre as a whole. And third, but most importantly, the entire medium of comics itself, which thanks to some bad history is practically defined by the superhero genre here in the states and unfortunately still is to this day.

No, it doesn't matter if it's just 2 out of 50 books (granted there's one week left) that do this, ALL of them have that weight on their shoulders and you should have known what could and probably will happen.

Comic books are still a niche here in the states, and it's their responsibility as one of the BIG TWO comic companies that dominate the medium (and the superhero genre) to realize that with niches, one bad apple will spoil the rest!

In America, comic books are not viewed as a medium the same way movies or tv shows are, and that's it's largest handicap. This reminds me of something Scott McCould said in Reinventing Comics. Ignoring the strange or plain wrong predictions he made about the growing internet, he says alot of things that I vehemently agree with, one major one being that there's nothing inherently wrong with the superhero genre, but it's domination of the medium has done nothing but hurt it. And this also goes for the genre as well. Not all superhero comics make their female characters vapid sex dolls for the sake of fanservice, but it's become so common that it hurts everyone, as well as the reputation of the genre, and in effect, the medium.

DC should KNOW that they need to move their comics AWAY from that.

We had a thread about this recently, didn't we? Yeah, I think so.

Kinda back on topic, I guess...

But even without the porn star characterization of the Starfire character, the front cover of the book was already a middle finger to readers from the get go (from what I've gathered, EVERYTHING about the comic is a middle finger to readers, old and new), but I don't want to bore you guys with all that.

I haven't read them, but I've heard that Birds of Prey and Wonder Woman aren't particularly great, but don't fall into the same boat Catwoman and Jason Todd fell into. I've also heard that Batwoman is good. As I said before, Batgirl looks like the start of something decent, and doesn't fall into the trap either (well, the writer is one of the creators of the Women in Refrigerators website, Gail Simone, and has been writing the specific character for a good while, now).

But I'm pretty sure with Catwoman and Jason Todd, they've killed any prospect of new people buying those books now. Great job, DC! In your own little way, you're adding harm to not only yourselves, but to the superhero genre, and to the medium of comics itself, when the entire point of this whole mess was to do the complete opposite!

Boy, that was fun! I like getting a little rant here and there.

[Arshes Nei]

I don't mind TnA even though I'm female. I understand it. I am ok with guys having all the TnA they want in a lot of things. However, I admit though allowing the guys to dominate that market for so long it does get alienating.

The problem is DC knows this is really a franchise, movies and series. So like the girl who is in that comic I posted about Starfire... I just don't see it making sense from a standpoint where people who did grow up on the cartoons, coming in and getting a Dick Pastry of a character. You had the audience from the Teen Titan cartoons, and the reboot gave them the perfect opportunity to gain from it.

This is just....well fail.

I think Storm is one of those, where you know she's good looking and sexy, but rarely have you seen her just posted to be just wank material. Sure she's been nude at times, or times she might wear something that makes a guy drool. But she's always kinda been well regarded I think.

Rogue is a character I really liked where despite her having to cover up for the sake of not accidentally absorbing people through skin to skin contact, maintained a spunk and personality about her.

When I look at DC's reboot and try to look for good women, the only interesting thing at this time may be Batgirl (as you said). Catwoman seems to have been trashed which is a shame cuz despite her "villainous" nature, she was an interesting character.

Oh well DC, just being reminded again why I don't bother with comics anymore.

[Psychotime]

The hilarious part is that from what I've seen, the original Starfire from the comics and the cartoon version are barely any different from each other other than the designs. Compared to the others, there was little change from the comics. Old school fans aren't happy about this change, either.

But some of the other characters did change for the cartoon...





Beast Boy was the douchebag that no one liked that loved to crack AWFUL jokes. Wait a minute, that's what he was in the cartoon, nevermind.

Ah well, the DC 52 is on it's last week. Here's hoping something good shows up to end it.

[Raoul Duke]

I can't follow Marvel or DC. I did when I was a wee little lad in the early 90's, back when X-men trading cards were all the rage. I realized Wolverine was the ONLY marvel character with a coherent story arch. All the rest turned into a pin up contest and I couldn't tell what dimension I was in anymore. I guess DC wants to follow in Marvels foot steps. It's amazing how those two companies can dominate 80% of the market when they have such a huge track record of turning off their loyal readers and alienating new readers.

[Arshes Nei]

I realized Wolverine was the ONLY marvel character with a coherent story arch. All the rest turned into a pin up contest and I couldn't tell what dimension I was in anymore.

LOL I hope you weren't around during the Roger Cruz run.... http://blog.adlo.es/swipe_of_the_week/2006/08/

It really WAS a pin up contest in Wolverine, full of swiping goodness.

I stopped reading for several reasons, the x-books were way too many (whcih was my primary interest). The alternate covers. I got tired of that really quickly. Costs and story lines and artists leaving just lost my interest.

The Comic Alliance nailed it with the creepy Catwoman Batman sex on the rooftop, it looks like creepy fanfic images. Even as silly as comics are...

[Psychotime]

Oh man, I'm usually not scared off by long continuity (I can just google the character and read a fan page to know what's going on), but I am downright frightened by how huge and convoluted the X-Men is.

Uncanny X-Men, X-Factor, X-Force, Generation X, New X-Men, Age of Apocalypse, Cable, New Mutants, Mutant X, X-Treme X-Men, Cable and Deadpool, ect, ect! And then there's all the mess that centers around Wolverine.

I can understand why there's so much of it (X-Men was the only thing getting Marvel profits at the time, but they still had to file for bankruptcy during that decade), but no way, man. Just no.

It doesn't help that it was a major series during the Dark Age (the time period where I almost never touch mainstream books, period), and as such, Rob Leifield in particular was a huge cornerstone of the franchise during that time. Plus I don't like Jim Lee.

Back on topic, there's nothing coming out this week that I want to buy, so...Eh. I guess we'll see if DC's plan worked out for them in the coming months.

I think it'll be a dud, honestly. It's like the time Marvel made Spider-Man team up with Obama, it'll make press and maybe sell to a point, but right after that it's just back to the loyal fanbase and no one else.

[Raoul Duke]

So you read all of them and there is nothing worth recommending huh. What a surprise! I like comics that were created for the solitary purpose of telling a good story. I have no interest in shelling out my money to see what's going to happen next.

Even those shitty X-books started with the premise of giving the reader a satisfying ending. I think they ran out of steam and were forced to shovel out a product with no story and hope illiteracy works in their favor. When I hear reboot I think they are just trying to start the cycle over. Fanboy consumers favor tangled up story lines. Don't beleive me check out this site with the history of the numbers.

[Elwell]

What I posted on Facebok when I linked to the Comics Alliance article:

The degree of DC's institutional tone-deafness regarding female characters, creators, and most of all readers in the relaunch is truly mind boggling. THIS is how you grow an audience for a dying medium?

And, what would, in a just world, be the last word on the issue:
http://michelelee.net/2011/09/24/dear-dc-comics/

[Arshes Nei]

Girls will read comics, girls will read comics intended for boys. I think manga has shown that. I remember when my ex bf founded MixxZine (he left and it turned to Tokyopop) he had Sailor Moon, Ice Blade, Parasyte and Magic Knight Rayearth.

So 2 titles were intended for girls, and 2 for boys. You know a lot of the girls went and read the gory Parasyte title? I loved that series when I was reading it.

Girls will read Naruto and Bleach. It's got it's TnA too. So obviously even with some sexuality, girls will read comics. However, of course with manga there's a lot of comics intended for girls and they will purchase.

Several times the comic companies noticed this and kept getting it wrong. It wasn't because of the character designs - so you didn't need to make a Manga version of DC characters.

It was because manga wrote stories people could relate to, stupid.

So even with the people going on about Narutards, and anime weeaboos, at least they remembered with all the ridiculousness that you still need characters people can relate to.

[alesoun]

Urgh, but the whole stereotyping thing is just predictable and boring. Men in furs and women in bikinis?

Who, but a 13 year old boy would fall for that? It would mean that women were actually tougher than men, don'tcha think? Or are men so delicate that they need thermals while women sashay in scanties?,

My daughter switched off super-heroes stuff at 13, 7 years ago. Maybe if they portrayed women as real people she might not have done.

A re-boot needs depth of character, not a change of costume.

Both sexes probably relate the images to what they want to be. 13-yo boys want a heroic bodytype. 13 yo girls want to be more than boobs and booty in a bikini. There's about 50% of the readership gone before the next breath.

[Psychotime]

Girls will read Naruto and Bleach. It's got it's TnA too. So obviously even with some sexuality, girls will read comics. However, of course with manga there's a lot of comics intended for girls and they will purchase.

And also bishonen. How many fangirls do characters like Sasuke (whos an AWFUL character, but regardless) and Byakuya (well, Bleach is just terrible, but whatever) have again?

So you read all of them and there is nothing worth recommending huh. What a surprise!

Woah, now. Where'd you get that from?

If you're talking about the new 52, I've only read ten. And of those, Batgirl, Batman, and Animal Man are the only ones that were better than "ok". Action Comics I'm still iffy on, but I don't mind giving it another go.

If you're talking about all the X-Men mess, I've read zero.

By the way, maybe it's just me, but I'm getting the implication that some people are thinking that the two offenders are red flags saying that the rest of the 50 other books are the same, which isn't necessarily true. Letting them happen period was a plain stupid move on DC's part, yes. But I think it's unfair to jump to any conclusions about the 37 other books which have already been released in the previous weeks or the 13 will be released tomorrow.

Granted, the writer of Jason Todd is also the writer for the Teen Titans book that's coming out, so expect the worst there.

Only thing I'll be doing is waiting for Linkara (Lewis Lovhaug) to post a new video, because he's a cool guy. If you've never heard of him he's a comedic video reviewer (who specializes in comics) in league with the Nostalgia Critic and is a self proclaimed feminist, which gets him a little bit of ire around the net whenever he criticizes offensive characterizations or pointless fanservice.

I posted a link to last weeks video earlier, but here's the rest of his thoughts on the relaunch if anyone's interested, split into weekly videos.

[Raoul Duke]

Oh I was talking about 52. I guess I wasn't clear about that. Then I ranted about x-marvel to make matters worse.

[Elwell]

By the way, maybe it's just me, but I'm getting the implication that some people are thinking that the two offenders are red flags saying that the rest of the 50 other books are the same, which isn't necessarily true. Letting them happen period was a plain stupid move on DC's part, yes. But I think it's unfair to jump to any conclusions about the 37 other books which have already been released in the previous weeks or the 13 will be released tomorrow.

Wonder Woman was released the same week to pretty much universal praise (the first time that could be said about that character in a generation), but it was swamped by all the Catwoman/Starfire hullabaloo.

[Psychotime]

Wonder Woman has such a strange history, and it's probably a good thing most people aren't aware of it.

It's just hilarious that a fetish comic created by a polygamous psychologist with a bondage obsession eventually became something of a representative of female superheroes. Or hell, the fact that despite that, it was STILL aimed at young girls when it debuted!

You just can't make up stuff like that. It sounds so implausible.

[Raoul Duke]

thanks for the link to that critic. He gives pretty in depth reviews. Even if his tastes differ from mine he keeps it pretty objective. I might just check out a couple titles now.

[Arshes Nei]

I posted a link to last weeks video earlier, but here's the rest of his thoughts on the relaunch if anyone's interested, split into weekly videos.

HAHA OH GOD. Thank you for the "Secret Organization" My roommate and I are watching a lot of the comic to TV series like Young Justice and Wolverine and the X-Men, the latter of which surprised us and we're only upset they could only fund one season.

We liked Young Justice but they keep having this secret organization of The Light. It's like 10 episodes and all you get is villains snickering at the end of "yes this is all going to plan for the Light" and I'm just starting to tune out what is otherwise a fairly decent show.

Because of that, the Wolverine and the X-Men show has become our favorite, despite some issues with the stylization and character designs. The origins and characters have been bounced around to different groups, but they still seem to keep to the essential of those characters keeping them interesting. Let's face it, there are a lot of mutants but that show balanced it well.

I was actually ok with Lobdell for some time when he took over when Claremont left...though I do find him pushing the Rogue/Magneto thing and the Prof and Jean Grey thing rather creepy. But I think after Age of Apocalypse there was not much left. I didn't find his writing great and I actually dropped out of comics and went to manga shortly after.

I really got more into art and wanted to be a comic book colorist because of comics, and now seeing how they are going now, I don't miss it so much. It's a shame too.

[Arshes Nei]

What I posted on Facebok when I linked to the Comics Alliance article:

And, what would, in a just world, be the last word on the issue:
http://michelelee.net/2011/09/24/dear-dc-comics/

and...I'm sure you've seen DC's response to this article? http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/0...o-the-ratings/

Because obviously it's about the teen rating :/

Which is infuriating to a point. The mother simply showed a few panels WITH SUPERVISION. She didn't just give a ticket to her daughter to go see The Watchmen movie and leave her alone.

Plus the issue (the comics....wtf batman catwoman sex) is kinda pushing the boundaries if I was a mother as what's acceptable for teen.

A teen rating to me means, look at what your kid is watching of course and make the judgment call. That's what the mom did. Teen also means I can feel ok with my teenager reading it unsupervised.

Mature is really questionable to leave around with a 7 year old.

DC gives me the impression of MATURE than Teen.

[Psychotime]

Bah, I lost what I was gonna write.

I'll try again.

I've said this elsewhere, but with the big name superheroes, do we really need all the pointless violence and sex in the first place? Shouldn't all the major superheroes, ESPECIALLY characters like Batman, still be ok for kids to be able to read, instead of just some?

In Detective Comics, they end the comic with a splash page of the Joker's recently removed face nailed to a wall and still dripping blood out of it's orifices, frozen in a wretched smile.

Wasn't the reason Vertigo came to be was as a place to put it's more violent and sexual series? (Preacher, American Virgin, Watchmen, ect.)

Maybe I'm just a prude (and I kinda am), but there's no reason for this sort of excess in mainstream superheroes. Most certainly not the ones that get cartoons made out of them every few years.

Yes, DC has a kids line that has series that expand on the cartoons or do their own thing entirely (Like the Eisner winning Tiny Titans), but I don't think that should matter.

Look at the Dark Knight. If I were a parent I'd be fine with letting my kids see it because it never crosses any lines. Hell, go even further back to the Batman Animated Series from the 90's.

Making something that's still ok for kids doesn't mean you have to dumb down your stories and make them childish. All you need is (I'm out of words) good taste in how you accomplish your story.

Hell, Bone turned into a Lord of the Rings-style fantasy epic halfway through and it still was ok for all ages.

Anyway, Linkara's final review of the New DC 52. And he says Aquaman is awesome.

I think I should change the thread name now that it's over.

[wiggum]

I started reading comics regularly back in the 90s with Spawn. I lost interest in that after the 100th issue. Since then the only character I've followed is Hellboy (who is far and away my favorite comic book character).

I went to the store to pick up some of the New 52, but the only ones available where Action, Justice League and Supergirl. I liked all three, and added a few more to my pull list while I was at the store.

I like that young Superman in Action actually has a rougher edge than in versions I've seen previously. Action was maybe a little rough, but I like it enough to keep reading new issues.

I liked Justice League as well, nothing in particular popped out at me as being bad. Same with Supergirl (also, based on its brief appearance in Supergirl and Justice League, I say I now officially approve of the new Superman costume)

I'm not willing to judge this whole endeavor based on the very first issues of the series I've managed to read so far. And I should point out I've never been a reader of any ongoing marvel or DC titles. But, as a new reader, I really enjoyed what I've seen so far and am looking forward to seeing more.

[Raoul Duke]

The Starfire controversy seemed to be less about the maturity of the content, but more the immaturity of the content. They were targeting horney tween-age boys. Little had DC known it developed a wider audience and blew it.

[Psychotime]

I remember Scott McCloud having an issue with how the words "adult" and "mature" are somehow synonymous with sex and violence when applied to entertainment. And I agree with him about it. There's nothing inherently mature about sex or violence in entertainment, and it usually exists for the exact opposite mindset. Sturgeon's Law and all that.

Now for some appropriate Calvin and Hobbes.

[Arshes Nei]

I think Avatar the Last Airbender dealt with some pretty heavy themes nicely.
Genocide (Aang loosing the Air Tribe)
Child Abuse (I think a father willingly burning his son on his face counts as child abuse)
Possible Sexual themes involving minors. (I'm not saying they actually did it but Sokka and Suki had some....tent hijinks that Zuko walked in on.)

There were the considered immature jokes like bathroom jokes. However, they were done in a way that wasn't "Pull my finger hurh hurh"

On a side note, why would you want to turn off the female audience? Guys don't like seeing girls dressed up at cons? You think girls will really WANT to go dress as the new Starfire?

[Psychotime]

I'm pretty sure most cons wouldn't allow someone to enter dressed like that, but I've only been to Heroes Con.

Here's the Catwoman writer attempting to defend himself. Not really.

Winick claimed that he is simply representing how the character would act in modern times given her personality and characteristics, but didn't directly refer to the scene in question.

"This is a Catwoman for 2011, and my approach to her character and actions reflect someone who lives in our times. And wears a cat suit. And steals," Winick told Newsarama. "It's a tale that is part crime story, part mystery and part romance.

"In that, you will find action, suspense and passion. Each of those qualities, at times, play to their extremes."