Shading problem

[DreadStunLock]

Hi, I just need a small guidance tip.

I drew my own Concept for the medieval zombie knights with medieval knight armor, but then I hit the problem, without the proper shading, the armor will NOT look metallic.

I want to dedicate like a year or so practicing light and shadow and how it works and how I can create really quite accurate lightning to my characters and learn about bounce light and etc.

When I search, all I see is how to shade Cylinders and Cubes and circles...Really?

I just don't get it, people say to me, find black and white pictures on the net, and copy them....That makes no sense to me. Has anyone got any tips of what I could do to improve? Because I can't go any further without value...



Thank you.

[Anid Maro]

If you have doubts about the usefulness of basic shapes, look no farther than here for the results it can get you.

Shading spheres and cylinders and cubes and such might seem boring, but just like vegetables they're good for you.

[DreadStunLock]

So shading those basic shapes actually helps? What about bounced light? I don't understand how it works, and I know this question should not be asked because of it's dependancies...but how long would you say in AVERAGE it takes to learn this stuff?

[Anid Maro]

Well, I suggest it, the guy I linked suggests it, and apparently everywhere you look or ask suggests it. So it's anybody's guess really.

On average, it takes approximately a "damn long time" to learn this stuff.

[GHudston]

Shading spheres and cylinders and cubes and such might seem boring, but just like vegetables they're good for you.

Shading vegetables doesn't hurt either!

[dpaint]

Make sure you are working from life when practicing this stuff. Especially for shadows and reflected light. And yes it takes years.

[DreadStunLock]

Ohh ok, so basically drawing life models and different objects...OK That makes more sense, cheers guys. God I hate fundamental learning

[Tim Murphy]

When I search, all I see is how to shade Cylinders and Cubes and circles...Really?

It is far easier to learn how light and shadow works on a few simple objects and then equating certain forms with manipulated versions of those objects than to learn how to use light on every little thing (light off a bicep, quadricep, dishware, tree, car, etc...)

[DreadStunLock]

Yeah, but I know how to shade them, but with those I don't know why some areas have light where the first light doesn't even remotely have posibility of hitting them, and then I found out about bounce light, but I don't even know how the hell that even works :| Or how to calculate where it would hit...

People told me to draw a small light near my picture and guide me with that, but that's bollocks, it doesn't work, it's not a 3d space enough to do that.

[Tim Murphy]

This might help, goes into bounced light and color: http://www.itchy-animation.co.uk/light.htm

I don't think you're going to find any set calculation for where it hits, comes down to experience I think. And if you specifically want to see how light works on a metallic surface like armor, go look at some spoons.

[hitnrun]

okay, take a deep breath.. Now exhale. Feel calm? Good.

The first thing you want to do is look at metal. Polished metal has reflections. Rusty metal, not so much.

As for how light works, it's really quite simple. There are highlights, midtones and shadows. This is what shading basic objects such as cubes, spheres and cones will teach you. It'll also help you understand the value structures.

As for why some areas have light without the first light hitting the object: This is where reflected light comes in. Just like sound, areas also reflect light. How do you think a mirror works? The light reflects off the shiny surface and into your eye. This does not mean an area has to be a mirror to reflect light.

And again, coming back to metal - you just have to know what type of metal you want to deal with and how the light reacts when it hits that type of metal. Is it polished, rusty, scuffed, gouged? All this will require you to do research. Find references of what kind of metal you're looking for. Study it, and ask yourself "why does this area look the way it looks?".

How long will it take to master this stuff? Depends on how much you study and practice. If you teach yourself, it'll probably take a while. If you have someone who knows this stuff already help you out, you'll probably take it in pretty quick. Not overnight quick, but I'm thinking over maybe a few years? I've been drawing seriously since fourth grade and light was easy to understand - it was technique that took me a while.

[DreadStunLock]

Awesome guys, thanks so much for everything.

Researching, Researching, Researching, Researching, Researching, Researching, Researching, Researching!

[Black Spot]

This help?

[briggsy@ashtons]

Yes, but not in this particular case! The thing that makes polished metals look like metals is that they display very strong specular reflection and no diffuse reflection. Consequently the division into lights, midtones and shadows, which applies to the diffuse reflection, is not relevant, unless we are talking about oxidized or dirty metals. What we mainly see is the specular reflection, which is a reflected image of the entire environment, but most conspicuously, reflected images of the light sources in the environment. Because of this characteristic, the tones used to represent metallic objects are typically very contrasty.

I wrote the following procedure for finding the position of the highlight for another thread a while back, but it applies equally well when you need to find the position of the multiple highlights on metals from the imagination:

1. Imagine a plane close to the object, facing the light source.
2. Turn the plane so that it now faces you, noting the axis on which the plane has to turn.
3. Now turn the plane on that axis, halfway back towards the light source.
4. The highlights on your object will be located at the point(s) where the surface is parallel to the plane you just found.

How long will it take to learn this stuff? A lot less time if you ignore the dominant advice offered here these days, to "just draw", and instead combine your observation with understanding.

For more on specular and diffuse reflection see http://www.huevaluechroma.com/021.php.

[DreadStunLock]

Thank you!!!

[JeffX99]

Ohh ok, so basically drawing life models and different objects...OK That makes more sense, cheers guys. God I hate fundamental learning

You have to get a sense of how light works, you can't just make this stuff up and come very close. The best way to understand light, shadow and their relationship is to work from life. Simple things are easier to study because you can pay more attention to what is important - the light, shadow, reflected light, etc. rather than being worried about the complexity of the subject.

The knowledge of how light works translates across many subjects and is the key to realism.

In the end all visual art comes down to the fundamentals.

As far as your specific project with armor...get some and draw it. There are peple in every community that you can make contact with that would be happy to share their armor with you - you just have to find them. Search for Renaissance fairs, costuming or SCA groups in your area.

An alternate would be to cobble together your own reference from cardboard you could then spray paint metallic silver or gunmetal. People also use PVC irrigation and drainage pipe to make armor. Be creative...be resourceful!