Nelson Shanks - realism or commercial kitch?

[jpacer]

Again, I've made some search and I found some works by Shanks that are good samples of contemporary realism, while others were as we call them "commercial kitch" - such as a portrait of Clinton.

What you're calling "commerical kitsch" is sometimes called "Portraiture."

Only Odd Nerdrum paints kitsch.

I'm not a fan by any means, but Mr. Shanks has been commissioned to do do portraits of the US President, Pope John Paul II, and Princess Diana, among many others. That's a pretty hefty Client List. How in the heck had you never heard of him?

[mcarmbk]

\
But please explain to me what kind of "great master" skills Mr. Shanks could offer them - those skills that they don't have yet?

decent manners for one. any student with the level of paintings you posted who would walk out because they didn't think they could learn anything WILL Never learn anything.
I am always learning, sometimes I learn from people who are less advanced then me - most everyone who interested, genuinely, in art, has some bit of information or method you (or i) don't.
One thing definitely lacking in todays art world is respect and reverance...respect for the master and reverance for the art... if everything's a joke and worth a snark or a sneer, i doubt we'll ever get beyond 'kitch' because we don't want to, as societies.

What our Academy students really need is a good master class on art marketing. \

It's funny to see these quotes next to each other, because the students, by the nature of their behavior, thus far, have not learned to make a good impression on many of the posters here, nor presumably on the man who was their guest and has been very helpful to art students.

[jpacer]

What our Academy students really need is a good master class on art marketing. There is a huge lack and need for this knowledge there for sure.

I'll say this again:
"I'm not a fan by any means, but Mr. Shanks has been commissioned to do portraits of the US President, Pope John Paul II, and Princess Diana, among many others. That's a pretty hefty Client List."

Seems like the students could have learned a lot about marketing from him. Maybe if they had been humble and listened or even asked questions they might've learned something. (EDIT: As in, "Gee, Mr. Shanks, how did you come about being asked to paint the Pope and Lady Di?" and his answer might contain something related to marketing oneself as a portrait artist. But I'm speculating...) People don't ask questions when they think they don't have anything to learn.

[Nezumi Works]

Many of you're rejecting the Academy's authority. I respect your opinion. So please respect our students' opinion on not accepting Mr. Shanks authority either.

You mean the Academy that invited Mr. Shanks in? Seems like they accept him as an authority.

From your description, the Academy may be an authority on painting, but they fall well short on professionalism. But then, I suspect your account may be less than reliable, given your past disdain for non-Russian artists and the fact that you weren't there.

[Elwell]

I wish this thread was less about manners and more about art.

[Arshes Nei]

I wish this thread was less about manners and more about art.

I wanna see more dirty and ugly equipment.

[Conniekat8]

So not a fan. Makes my teeth ache.

Would you be so kind to elaborate why, so we can learn something?

[Book Guru]

Guys,

I've just received e-mail from another witness.
Actually, I've sent him e-mail last night with the link to this thread. He's not registered and he doesn't speak English. But he translated it with Google and sent me his response.
Actually, there were only very FEW students that had to leave. And probably the reason was because they were in a rush for a diploma preparation (today is a huge day at the Academy, the Diploma Defense). So not everyone could stay even if they wanted to. He told me there was absolutely NO any kind of disrespect on behalf of students. But yes, he also mentioned the organization was horrible and he'd never have a master class in such conditions.

So what I've heard on Friday night really differs with what I've just read in this e-mail.
Again, it's either that person was "a bit" exaggerating, or I misunderstood smth.
I wish I was there to see it myself, but unfortunately I couldn't.

And to those who say there was something else after. No, there wasn't. This guy told me the same thing - the last photo in that master class was the final work. But our students got used to different kind of master classes where they could see the result in 30min (actually, sometimes in a couple of minutes).

Again, Mr.Shanks' works is not of my taste. It's just my personal taste.
We do call it commercial kitch. We have plenty of works like this of Putin, Medvedev, and many other rich and famous. And I wouldn't say these Russian artists are either well-known or very much respected in the art field.
Btw, why no one remembers that the portrait of Clinton was very much criticized in the US - by both art critics and general public?

I'll try to find a portrait of that "Scotich" girl. The one I really liked. In defense of Mr.Shanks.

Last but not least.
This doesn't refer to Mr.Shanks (I guess), but very often artists offer to make a portrait to celebrities in order to add value to their portfolio. And they do it for FREE. You know, the same thing as very expensive skin care companies and fashion designers offer their free stuff - it's a perfect advertisement.
It's very naive thinking that all the portraits that are made for celebrities are commissioned. This guys are pretty much spoiled by free offers from everywhere. Including the arts.

[manlybrian]

I wish this thread was less about manners and more about art.

Me too, so you should post your thoughts on why you don't like Mr Shanks art instead of leaving us hanging.

[Arshes Nei]

Is Nelson Shanks on trial by the Art Committee? I'm reading posts of witnesses and evidence. What's the crime and who is the judge and jury.

Will he be executed for these high crimes?

[Cory Hinman]

So not a fan. Makes my teeth ache.

So... you think the work is too saccharine or is the visual equivalent of fingernails on a chalkboard? Those are two causes of dental distress I know of.

What I see is the problem with over-reliance on photos, as can happen at the level of celebrity of his Holiness and President Clinton, who just don't have time for sittings.

The figure and negative space in the John Paul II portrait are not well integrated. His holiness looks to be standing in front of a backdrop, rather than occupying an archtectural space. There's just so much that's awkward about the Clinton portrait I'm wondering if some personal ambivalence about the man himself isn't coming through.

In terms of poor integration of figure and space the hard uniform edge of the cello-player makes him look like he was cut out from some other source and pasted into the space he occupies.

That said I think Shanks is much more sucessful with more abstract space. I like the princess Diana and the last older gentleman. And I like the figure of John Paul II, just not the piece as a whole.

Bookguru--I agree that is a horrible place to leave off a demo. I think that shows a rude disregard on Shanks' part

[s.ketch]

The Pope's sleeve looks like pearlescent labia.

[JeffX99]

The Pope's sleeve looks like pearlescent labia.

You say that like it's a bad thing?

[duztman]

It seems to be a Russian Academy art against the world of overrated non Russian Academy art sort of thing.

LOL at this.
I don't know what it is, but Russian Academy students are really odd. seems like the only thing they learn there is to talk about how brilliant they are.

[Book Guru]

Okk...

Here is my homework. Nelson Shanks: Research and Defense.

The State Russian Museum has a favorable article on Mr. Shanks' exhibition.

Russian Embassy has also made an announcement.
Actually, I found quite a good number of articles in Russian about this event.

Here is the link to his Stuidio Incamminati coverage of his Russian Art Tour.

In case someone wants to go to his master class, the Weekend With the Masters Intensive will take place June 22-26 (he'll be back from Russia soon!).

Next, I finally found that "Scotish" girl image.
Yes, I was right about green.
It's actually called "Green Girl", though I've also seen the title "Priscilla" at some websites.
See the image below. This one is more of my taste.

Finally, "how dare am I..." - however, I'll still express my opinion (and let green democratic republicans cut my tongue for that).
Again, Mr. Shanks is not from my league of artists. Too much commercialized, thus following the crowd's taste.
I agree with Cory Hinman on using too much photo (lack of time for a celebrity for modeling), sooner or later it can ruin much of originality of many artists.
Besides, for years (for many years!) he also has to follow his famous clients' requests and tastes. It also sooner or later starts to reflect his independence as an artist.

Our contemporary world is too far from the era of "Enlightment", thus most of us are mostly concentrated in one field (the most!), thus not familiar with the rich world around us. No, we're not uneducated people, but still... well - you get the point. Don't ask a politician about arts, don't ask a musician about politics. And - never, ever ask an actor to sing.

/btw, this should be YOUR home work, you lazy Americans!/

[Elwell]

You say that like it's a bad thing?

NOW we're coming down to brass tacks. It would be a good thing, it would be a great thing, if there were any indication that it was some sort of intentional comment, which, of course, there is not. So instead, it's just a big distraction, just like the miter which looks like it's about to fall off, just like the ugly, badly designed, form obscuring drapery in the sleeves of the Diana portrait, just like his seeming fascination with looking up his models' noses, just like the bizarre and uncomfortable compositional choices he continually makes. Shanks is a technically excellent painter, but he's terrible at putting a picture together. It's ironic that he emphasizes keeping the big picture in mind and working from general to specific in his teaching (and rightly so), since his pictures are textbook cases of detail overwhelming and counteracting the overall effect.

The picture of the redheaded girl in the knit cap and the hanging lute is quite lovely, though.

[s.ketch]

Cello is looking a bit out of shape.

[Cory Hinman]

hm. The floor looks to be sloping from the columns in the distance to the cello-player in the foreground, like he's on an incline(?)

[Deadlyhazard]

Didn't really notice it before but yeah some of his stuff looks kinda wonky o_O. And now that Elwell pointed it out the compositions are starting to bug me, with the stuff left off the picture and what not....

[Black Spot]

Give the man some slack - it was painted on the Titanic as it was sinking.

[s.ketch]

If you look at the mantel in the Clinton portrait, the perspective changes. On the right side, it's slightly above, and the left side is from below. I don't know if it's an illusion caused by the figure or if it's a mistake.

But I like the subtle peace sign Clinton is given. Don't know if that was shanks idea or not. Nothing like a good subliminal symbol.

[Black Spot]

I quite like the portrait of Margaret Thatcher, but she did sit for 80 hours.

[blogmatix]

Cello is looking a bit out of shape.

Hmm, yes, it does sort of look too wide or something. I wonder if the picture was perhaps painted from photo reference? Perhaps it is a typical camera distortion?

[k4pka]

Hmm, yes, it does sort of look too wide or something. I wonder if the picture was perhaps painted from photo reference? Perhaps it is a typical camera distortion?

Camera distortion would struggle to do even that to a cello. My partner is a luthier and just laughed when she saw it. It is breathtakingly awful.

[Cory Hinman]

Give the man some slack - it was painted on the Titanic as it was sinking.

lol---I meant the floor looks like it curves from columns to figure.

[Cory Hinman]

NOW we're coming down to brass tacks. It would be a good thing, it would be a great thing, if there were any indication that it was some sort of intentional comment, which, of course, there is not. So instead, it's just a big distraction, just like the miter which looks like it's about to fall off...

I dunno, the sleeve may be to remind us that while he's called "Holy Father", he's head of "Mother Church", while the precarious miter serves to remind us that even if he is a man of great spiritual authority, he is still just a man; not to suggest the miter carries the mortal significance of a memento mori detail, although maybe, but rather the miter's imperfect perch reasserts its wearer's humanity.

There. Eight years of art school may not have taught me much about image-making, but I did learn to justify crap.

[Slothboy3000]

That plant on Clinton's mantelpiece looks like a leafy chest burster.

[Conniekat8]

Camera distortion would struggle to do even that to a cello. My partner is a luthier and just laughed when she saw it. It is breathtakingly awful.

That pic may be a very good argument FOR people paying attention in their art fundamentals classes - like how to gt your proportions right, even when NOT working from photos

[blogmatix]

That pic may be a very good argument FOR people paying attention in their art fundamentals classes - like how to gt your proportions right, even when NOT working from photos

I find it weird though. The fact that he can capture a portrait likeness tells me he surely does have the ability to get proportions right. So how come he gets them right on the really difficult bit, namely the face, and then screws them up so completely on a cello? To the point where even I can see it, and I'm a rank, talent-free amateur who in twenty years of struggle have yet to learn how to get proportions right?

Did he really never notice that weird cello? If he didn't, how come? If he did, why on earth did he allow that painting to leave his studio or get onto the web as a finished work before correcting it?

[Flake]

He didn't care.



Look at the quality difference between famous rich people and poor yet beautiful life models.