WIP - bear VS ibex

[S_Gangl]

Heeeelllloooo back, again, CA-guys

starting this weekend with a new picture idea: bear VS ibex I had this idea some weeks ago and now is the time to start with it!

First, I made some scribbles... My favourite is #1 or #3...

What do you think, guys? Your oppinion would be very interesting for me!

[pauloricardo]

I think #2 is better, but I would try a mix of #2 and # to give an idea of a battle going to start....

[Kode]

#2 is my favourite too, although #4 could be an interesting choice as well if you added some aggression to the bear.

[TinyBird]

In #2 the bear looks most threatening, which puts tension to the image. It's also my favorite. In all the other ones, it kinda looks like the ibex is stalking the poor bear...

[Venger]

It depends on what story you are trying to tell us?
Is the bear hunting the ibex? What do you want the focus to be? the bear or the ibex?
Figure this out first, then let us know.

[S_Gangl]

Thank you pauloricardo, Kode, TinyBird and Venger very much for your oppinion!

Venger: Generally the idea comes from my cosin, who said, I should draw an animal fight. Bear VS ibex. Which one hunts the other was not important at this stage.
But now you mention it, Venger, I think the bear should hunt the ibex! The bear follows the ibex in his teretory, the snow and stones of the glacial. The ibex is faster and stronger there as the bear.
Nevertheless, the bear is hungry and want something to eat So it´s his hunt

I think that choice also fit for the second thumbnail. What do you think about that?

[alex_86]

I liked #1 and #3 the best, though I would recommend getting a bit closer to the action for #1. As another option, have you considered capturing the physical contact of the fight? That might be interesting

[dicenwn]

I like the idea of the whole image but i think the focus of the image is a little off. They are too crunched up on the right side of the screen. I think if the bear was maybe peering through the rocks on the other side will make the over all composition work a bit better. Check out a quick paintover i did. See if this helps!

[S_Gangl]

Thank you alex and dicenwn!
I do like your paint over and the composition is better, true. but I think the two animals get now different approach to the situation. First the ibex frighten back, now he looks more aggressiv and seems to start attacking again (doesn´t mean, that this is bad, I like it as well).
The bear don´t look very dangerous at all, I think. yeah, peering through the rocks on the other side let him appear a bit slowly... my oppinion.

I think maybe its more intersting to take the bear from thumbnail #1 and add it to this pic make it more dramatical???
sure, than I need a bit more space for the fight, make the pic longer and need a bigger snow area, I think. What do you think about that idea?

[dicenwn]

yeah, i like the bear from pic one alot better he does seem alot more aggressive, maybe widen the aspect of the picture a little bit and you should have a good composition

[S_Gangl]

sooo.... I went on with my pic a bit... and wanted to know what do you think about it now! I like it much more with the "other" bear thumbnail. I want to draw him sunk in the snow, because it is so heavy and usually don´t hunt in the snow area
Background should be the valley... with trees and mountains... snow landscape

Please give me feedback, I really like to know, what you think about it and what I did wrong

[dicenwn]

nice man, im looking forward to this a lot, its looking great, i think that the scope of this image could be pushed further, making it seem a lot more "epic" in a sense. What i did here was widen the aspect to more of a widescreen look and give it more focus on the bear since hes the main focus and next the ibex. I felt as if the background mountains looked a bit to plain and similar so i think you should ass maybe a huge mountain or something just to break up the parts. Check out the quick paint over and see what you think.

[sone_one]

But now you mention it, Venger, I think the bear should hunt the ibex! The bear follows the ibex in his teretory, the snow and stones of the glacial. The ibex is faster and stronger there as the bear.
Nevertheless, the bear is hungry and want something to eat So it´s his hunt

#3 then.

[S_Gangl]

hehe ... dicenwn. I love your critique, because it makes it really more dramatically! and I do like that!
So I followed your advice 'Thank you!

sone_one: omg... Then I failed what I want do show
Thank you for your input, but I don´t want to change my scene anymore now!
I really like the chosen scenario. Du weißt schon, was ich meine Aber danke für deine Meinung


I also try adding color. Hope you like it

[sone_one]

well thats my main problem as it is now...



everything is of equal importance >.<

and due to contrasting values the rock to the left is the focus.

[Tommoy]

What is the ibex doing? Give it some more room on the right , imagine how he would counter the bear , find reference, loose some rocks on the left and get the focus on the bear.

[S_Gangl]

hmm... ok, I understand.

So I changed the placement of some objects a bit.... It looks like sketch #1 now, I think ^^
Ok, doesn´t matter ^^

I also looked for some ref for the ibex. I think Tommoy´s OP was very helpful for this! Thank you!

Also big thanks to sone_one

So, here is my update:

[TinyBird]

Get more ref on the ibex, what on earth is with that front leg?

[S_Gangl]

Get more ref on the ibex, what on earth is with that front leg?

Need I only for the legs other ref fotos, or generally?
Because I think the body of the ibex is okay

[Brandon Pilcher]

Need I only for the legs other ref fotos, or generally?
Because I think the body of the ibex is okay

The ibex's front leg looks too burly for me, though I'm no expert on ibex anatomy.

[Manweri]

Looks like this picture is going to become really cool! I like it a lot

The ibex's leg bothered me a little though, so I tried to come up with a better solution. I admit that I have never drawn an ibex before, but I suppose their anatomy isn't too different from horses (so this may be a little too equine for an ibex). But I hope you find it helpful nonetheless!

[Goog]

The bear needs to be on a third. The whole thing feels cluttered otherwise. The image also gets into a nice rule-of-thirds spiral when you do move it.

Also, I think the other problem with this piece is contrast. There so many points of extremely high contrast that my eye just gets frustrated.

Try to compose your image so that the point of greatest contrast (value, color, shape, etc.) is where you want the viewer to look, because that is where they will look. Try to lower contrast in areas that are unimportant, like the snow on the rocks underneath the Ibex.


Here I just moved your bear over to the third:

[Venger]

I think you've got them the wrong way round - the ibex is the focus of the hunting bear and so it should be our focus as well.
A few things really jump out at me - the rearing ibex, well thats used for dominance among males during mating so I'm not sure why he's doing it now - it's a goat, it's going to run away - that's what they evolved to do - evade predators by climbing/living on cliffs.
If you want it to have no choice but to fight then you'll have to show us why? is it on the edge of a cliff where it has no choice, or is it protecting its young?
Dramatically it's pretty light, theres no mood - better lighting will add to this.
You need to tell the story with more that just the characters - lighting, dramatics, the set all add to this.

Quick OP for you - with the large bulk of the bear on the right, I've compensated with a light section on the left which highlights the ibex protecting it's young - with some other goats escaping up the cliff - it's telling the story more.
(do bears hunt ibex? or are they in completely different areas? not that it's too important.)
Don't know why I saved it in such a low rez?

[S_Gangl]

woaah... very much and good feedback I get here
Thank you all!

Manweri: Thank you Yes, your OP helps. I changed the front legs now as you can see.

Goog: I don´t really understand, what you mean with "third".... oO
I also tried to work on the contrast and colors of the picture. Little bit better now?


Venger: puuh... You always think much more and interpretate my pictures, I never think about that ^^ My only idea was to draw a fight between a bear and an ibex. Why they fight I don´t know. Also not, if this fight can happen in nature. :o
I always like your OP. Whenever you post one in my thready, my picture looks so weak against yours
But this is your composition, so you would draw this, or? I can´t steal this and copy it .... Really cool thoughts, but I can´t use them, I think.
So my pic fails, when there shoulb be told a story. Should I restart with it? With a different composition? I think I have to finish that, even if it´s not correct. :/

[Venger]

It's basically your composition - #3 from your thumbs, with them just reversed and placed in the scene you've already created.
Always try to think of the story you are trying to convey - you don't have to use my composition at all, as long as it gets you thinking for next time.

[Goog]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_thirds

^wikipedia entry for rule of thirds.

Its not actually a rule, but it does help quite a bit.




Remember that point of greatest contrast means relative to the rest of the piece. That doesn't necessarily mean that the bear has to be saturated and have extremely dark bits next a desaturated, extremely bright background. It's all relative to how dark/light the rest of the piece is.

[S_Gangl]

Venger: ok, it´s "basacally" my thum ^^ hmm... I want to tell a story, ... but I want to come to an end with that pic. So my decision is, to think about the story by my next pic It´s not that I ignore your comments completely. Most of the time you write your useful critique so late during my paint porces I´m always sad about that. So I would be very happy to see you in my next thread again

Goog: ahh... ok I have to search that wikipedia entry in german, but now I understand what you mean Thank you! hm.. should I desaturate the bear? oO



Any hard critique for this version of my pic?

[pauloricardo]

hello... I think you could put the scene more darker... once it is snowing... it could make the pic more dramatic....

best regards

[S_Gangl]

Thanks, pauloricardo, again for your comment.
Sure, if it is snowing, then I have to make it darker

so. I think this is nearly finished.
What do you think? Last comment plz

[pauloricardo]

it's fine