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Thread: "Draw like you get laid"

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    "Draw like you get laid"

    Not sure if this was discussed before, but I stumbled upon this recently. Here's an excerpt from a journal entry from professional comicbook artist, sean gordon murphy over at DA.
    I found it thought-provoking but also kinda funny:


    "About a month ago Dave Johnson called me up. And he said one of the smartest lines I’ve heard about comic art in a while. And I don’t think he knew how profound he was being. But first a little back story…

    I’ve known Dave personally for about a year now, but I’ve been a fan of his stuff since Super Patriot back in the 90s. When I met him for the first time a year ago, it was hard not to geek out—especially when we were wearing the same style hat. All night I was fighting the urge to make an ass out of myself and say something like “we got the same hat! That makes us brothers! HAT brothers!” We exchanged numbers and now I’d say he’s one of my few comic book friends.

    So my phone starts ringing and I see that it’s Dave. He rarely calls so he’s nowhere near my “this person calls too much and without a good reason for interrupting me AKA the straight-to-voicemail” list—so I pick up. The reason he was calling was because he had a few questions about DA that I don’t really remember.

    So we’re chatting for a while talking about the usual stuff, when finally we start talking about drawing women.

    I’ve always struggled with drawing women because I refuse to draw the normal “big tits/small-waist/cookie-cutter” types that you see in some mainstream comics. And if I have to draw one, I’ll struggle to make it look more like an actual life drawing of a REAL female body rather than a rip-off of a million poorly drawn women in comics. I'm not always successful, to I feel like I do try. In my opinion, drawing cookie-cutter bodies of anatomically impossible proportions does three things:

    1. It makes our industry look juvenile—like a bunch of giggly kids doodling big tits in our notebooks during 3rd period.
    2. It’s an insult to the female reader. Which is probably one of many reasons why they usually don’t read mainstream books.
    3. It makes the artist look like an uncreative dumb-fuck who doesn’t take pride in noticing how different female bodies types are. Usually because he doesn’t know or understand women (nor does he care to try). And he’ll usually get away with it because most of the women he meets are at cons where he doesn’t have to make any effort.

    So I told Dave that I really liked his women because I could feel by his approach that he respected women and isn’t interested in drawing simple T&A. Even when I look at his nudes now, they don’t have the “please rape me” look or that “I’m only 18 and puberty hit me overnight! Please be gentle when you plow me across the carpet because I’m not used to it!” look. But Dave summed it up better.

    “I draw women like I get laid.”

    So simple yet so true. Maybe the reason women are so poorly represented in some (not all) mainstream comics is because most artists haven’t been laid a whole lot. Come to think of it, most of the artists I like are also the ones who draw women WELL—meaning they’ve probably been with enough women that they understand them, aren’t afraid of them, and know how to draw different body types because they’ve seen a few naked ones in person. And when I’ve met my favorite artists in person—sure enough—they usually look like the kinds of artists who get laid.

    So if you’re an artist and you’re reading this—and you see me at a show and I’m giving you a strange judging look (like I’m struggling with some complex algebra)—I’m probably deciding, between you and your art, whether or not you get laid enough.

    And you have Dave Johnson to thank."

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    True true. I (as a woman) definitely appreciate when a female is drawn like a woman would actually look. I don't mind hot women in comics, I'm not offended by any of it, I just like more realistically drawn women more.

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    This isn't news...that's why I started drawing.
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    All I ask is please PLEASE give the poor ladies some BONES... I think the strange boneless rubbery look is what turns me off the most in badly drawn comic-book females...

    Well, that, and they all have the same face and body-type. But then, so do most of the guys. (I seriously can't tell most superheroes apart if they're not wearing their costumes.)

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    What is this "getting laid"?
    Last edited by Wooly ESS; February 15th, 2011 at 11:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leroy Oosterling
    2. It’s an insult to the female reader. Which is probably one of many reasons why they usually don’t read mainstream books.
    I agree, but the way men are drawn in comics isn't that distinguishable and naturalistic either, although it's probably that way to answer the call of the male power fantasy, as opposed to turn girls on.



    Quote Originally Posted by Leroy Oosterling
    So simple yet so true. Maybe the reason women are so poorly represented in some (not all) mainstream comics is because most artists haven’t been laid a whole lot. Come to think of it, most of the artists I like are also the ones who draw women WELL—meaning they’ve probably been with enough women that they understand them, aren’t afraid of them, and know how to draw different body types because they’ve seen a few naked ones in person. And when I’ve met my favorite artists in person—sure enough—they usually look like the kinds of artists who get laid.
    Uh yeah, preconceived notions, anyone? That's just a very silly way to affirm your argument. Sure there are many man-child wannabe artists out there, but getting laid or not doesn't have that much to do with your artistic sensitity towards women.

    It's hard enough to draw a monthly comic book, juggling so many balls on a sequential page without worrying about whether the girl your drawing is 'arty' enough, it just adds another layer of complexity to the whole cake mix with the added pressure of dead-lines and bills looming over your head. Some artists just don't care (enough) about that and/or have different priorities, especially when you're talking about fast food comics.


    There are a horde of artists out there, married, perhaps even happily, who draw pretty cookiecutter, objectified women. I'm pretty sure that would mean they occasionally get in the sack, unless I go by the stereotype that marriage kills your sex life.

    Examples off the top of my head: Greg Land, Greg Horn, Liefeld, Jim Lee, Jim Balent, Madureira, Mark Bagley, David Finch, Marc Silverstri, Scott Campbell, Mike Deodato, Leinil Francis Yu, Ian Churchill. All of them married (as far as I know) and pretty succesful.

    Actually, one thing I always noticed about George Perez is that he seems to make a conscious effort to make his (female and male) characters look different. Different heights, bonestructure, noses, etc.


    Oh, and I do agree that it would be nice to see some more sensitively drawn females in comics.
    Last edited by MidgardSerpent; February 15th, 2011 at 06:25 PM.
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    That fat kid is offline Registered User Level 5 Gladiator: Myrmillo
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    I draw with my penis. Am I doing it right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by QueenGwenevere View Post
    All I ask is please PLEASE give the poor ladies some BONES...
    I think that is what most men are trying to give women. So no worries there.
    Badump bump.


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    That fat kid is offline Registered User Level 5 Gladiator: Myrmillo
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    Damn, your one liner was WAY better than mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by That fat kid View Post
    I draw with my penis. Am I doing it right?
    So. . .

    You pretend to the skills of "Pricasso?"

    Do you?


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    So, I guess J. Scott Campbell falls into the "Draws like he don't" get laid section?

    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
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    This discussion shows a lot of promise!
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    Honestly, I've always wondered why comic book girls are always drawn the way they are - a idealism of female anatomy, if ever, and it's always given me the creepy image of sweaty middle-aged men hunched over drawing boards in their basements.

    That's a good piece of advice. I'd willingly give that advice to anyone, if only to see the look on their face.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    I think that is what most men are trying to give women. So no worries there.
    Badump bump.
    You know, I was just waiting for someone to pick up on that...

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    I completely agree with this notion. Looking at women drawn in an objectifying style gets really boring, really fast.
    Show some subtlety and variety.

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    This example is awesome:

    Name:  er__.jpg
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    This is a bit like saying you didn't get a decent burger at McDonald's because the guy who cooked your burger hadn't gone to the culinary institute and hadn't learned the finer points of cooking beef. You're in McDonald's for crissakes! Everything is fake food extruded at the factory and comes prepackaged and frozen so it can be microwaved and served in the quickest time possible!
    Last edited by kev ferrara; February 16th, 2011 at 08:33 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    This is a bit like saying you didn't get a decent burger at McDonald's because the guy who cooked your burger hadn't gone to the culinary institute and hadn't learned the finer points of cooking beef. You're in McDonald's for crissakes! Everything is fake food extruded at the factory and comes prepackaged and frozen so it can be microwaved and served in the quickest time possible!
    They didn't?!

    YOU LIE!


    Oh, and to rebuke your claim:

    There was an era when in comics, the female form wasn't so crazy.



    Mr. Al williamson
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    I refute your rebukation.

    Al Williamson is obviously an exception, as is Alex Toth, Bill Sienkiewicz, and about 22 others who are really continuity illustrators (i.e. Fine Artists). Don't rebuke-fute me with exceptions.

    When I first began in comic books, it seemed that every comic artist I talked to spoke of art only in terms of conventions, pre-made shortcuts, symbols, line weights, how to draw hair, tech pen techniques to make stuff look cool, etc. Mr. Campbell's work, and thousands of other conventioneers, is entirely built of these symbolic conventions.

    Not that I don't like eating at McDonald's every once in a blue moon. Although the chocolate shakes are starting to taste weirdly synthetic to me.
    At least Icarus tried!


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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    I refute your rebukation.

    Al Williamson is obviously an exception, as is Alex Toth, Bill Sienkiewicz, and about 22 others who are really continuity illustrators (i.e. Fine Artists). Don't rebuke-fute me with exceptions.

    When I first began in comic books, it seemed that every comic artist I talked to spoke of art only in terms of conventions, pre-made shortcuts, symbols, line weights, how to draw hair, tech pen techniques to make stuff look cool, etc. Mr. Campbell's work, and thousands of other conventioneers, is entirely built of these symbolic conventions.

    Not that I don't like eating at McDonald's every once in a blue moon. Although the chocolate shakes are starting to taste weirdly synthetic to me.
    Given.

    Oh, and BK's shakes are pretty consistent.

    My guess would be of Al Williamson and those you've mentioned, would be of the influence they grew up with. Wally wood, Alex raymond, Lyman young, and those of the adventure strips days.

    Oh, btw, www.comiccovers.com has great examples of the Al williamson-type cover art, and some great Joe kubert & James Bama Doc savage novel covers.
    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
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    I would pay a reasonable amount of money to see that woman's...



    skeletal structure.
    CRITIQUE AS YOU WOULD BE CRITIQUED
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    THE ABOVE LINK IS ALL YOU NEED

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bennett View Post
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    I dig the man shoulders.

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    Not for the faint of heart.
    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
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    Liefeld needs to draw that tiger like he's getting mauled.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmenSpirits View Post


    Not for the faint of heart.
    It was the 90's. Mistakes were made.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nezumi Works View Post
    It was the 90's. Mistakes were made.
    He STILL draws that way.
    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
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    Something about that picture reminds me of this...
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    At least Icarus tried!


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    A cartoonist buddy sitting next to Joyce Brabner at a con in the '90's heard her advising a young man whose portfolio she'd just looked at thusly:"You need to take life-drawing. Todd McFarlane swears by it, he seizes any opportuntiy to draw from the live model..."
    She went on in this vein for a while, then when the young man thanked her and went on his way my friend turned to Joyce with a highly dubious look on his face, to which she replied,"I know, I know, but if I don't say that he'll never do it."
    Last edited by Cory Hinman; February 16th, 2011 at 09:40 PM. Reason: gender confusion
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