Do 3d Programs improve your drawing skills?

[Cortes]

I'm working as an intern at a small motion graphics firm. Along with After Effects, I'm teaching myself how to use 3DS Max as part of the programs commonly used.

As I learn to model and design in 3d, I have wondered if one's art skills could possibly be improved by using these programs. I struggle with the major problems in my own drawing: light and perspective. I have trouble figuring out how light will fall on my subjects as well as foreshortening which are common problems for amateur artists. But the more I sculpt and create in 3DS Max, will I possibly be able to memorize the shapes I am creating and learn how to draw them correctly in perspective?

The idea is this: I create a concept character for reference in the program, then sculpt and map the character and so on. Since I now have a full 3d model with the possibility of lighting it in a variety of ways, is this not easily transferable to use as a reference for drawing and painting? I do realize of course that there is nothing better than drawing from life, but if my imagination demands a creature be designed, will creating this in 3d be at least helpful to aid my drawing it?

On this note, has anybody here who uses these 3d programs noticed an improvement in their own drawing skills?

[Dusty]

This is a completely common and acceptable method of helping yourself solve complicated issues where it would be near impossible to find reference for otherwise.

Another trick I have used in the past is using the Bipeds in 3D studio max to help with poses. They are great, because they are essentially 3D "wooden figurines" that you can pose at will, but they aren't detailed enough to allow you to get sloppy with them.

[Psychotime]

Kinda the main idea sketchup is used for.

[M-Kaibigan]

I don't think you guys read his post fully.

He's not asking about creating something in a modeller and then using that as the basis for an image, he's asking whether working in 3D will help his 2D.

3D tools will help your visualisation skills. That's it. Nothing else.

If you want a slightly deeper explanation: it will help you visualise a 2D form as a 3D form. Since the screen you work from is in 2D, and the objects you manipulate are in 3D, you will increase your ability to see the 2D image as a 3D image, in the mind.
You might also gain the ability to visualise a shape in the mind and subsequently rotate it to any angle.

Of course, if you already have these skills then working in 3D will do nothing for your 2D art.

In terms of allowing you to get a better feel for light, no. Learning how light operates by studying a realtime shader won't help you much unless you plan to make your own shaders. Said task will force you to read up on the mechanics of light but you can read about the stuff without working in 3D or writing a shader anyway.

Light is better studied by observing the real world.


I started life working with pens and pencils. Then I tried working in 2D on the computer with a tablet. After that I started modelling and creating 3D assets. I then returned to 2D.

Upon returning, I noticed no improvement in my abilities.

Even creating textures won't help much. An unwrapped texture, with orthographic projection, is an entirely different beast from a 2D drawing with perspective projection.


If you do eventually go down the line of creating things in 3D, then taking a render or screenshot and painting over it to make it look like it was all done in 2D, I'd severely caution you. Said practice is akin to using the projector. Eventually in life you'll have to draw from hand if you rely on using 3D tools to get your perspective, you'll be clueless as to what to do.

[Noah Bradley]

I can't speak much for digital 3d, but I did take a traditional figure sculpting class. It was one of the most helpful things I have ever done for my 2d skills. The leap in my ability to draw was palatable after just a few weeks of sculpting.

[Neslom]

3D tools will help your visualisation skills. That's it. Nothing else.

I was going to write that.

I started out in 3D and was never really good at but it helped me to better understand drawing as a 3-dimensional concept when it comes to structure your drawings.

[hippl5]

Like others said, I think it's just at tool, like a pose-able figure. Since 3D takes care of lighting (Yes, lighting in 3D takes skill, but it's very different from 2D) and perspective for you, I don't think it helps that much for 2D.

[Elwell]

I can't speak much for digital 3d, but I did take a traditional figure sculpting class. It was one of the most helpful things I have ever done for my 2d skills. The leap in my ability to draw was palatable after just a few weeks of sculpting.

^This. Sculpting is one of the most helpful things you can do to improve drawing ability. As for digital 3d work, while everything is interrelated, it's more likely that working on your drawing skills will improve your modeling than vice-versa.

[Derek the Usurper]

Polygonal modeling in 3ds Max isn't much like traditional sculpture at all. I would suggest using a digital sculpture program like Zbrush instead.

[Cortes]

Thanks for the advice cause it's definitely appreciated. So I guess I should just keep doing what I'm doing in order to learn, which is life drawing. Not the answer I expected, but nothing good comes easily, right?

I have indeed starting working in clay, again to create characters for use in rendering as references. Since clay is IRL, I figure I would gain actual knowledge of how light works from simply sculpting and then painting the sculpture.

For example, I'm probably going to start painting say, a little dragon or whatever. I'll look at references for dinosaurs for the anatomy and such, sculpt to the best of my ability and then I'll have a REAL LIFE super cool reference to paint! The only trouble is clay sculpting has a learning curve I must adjust to. Is there an active thread on this site dedicated to my question as it pertains to sculpting? I'd start postin' there if so to keep this on topic.

Anyway, on topic, I'm glad to hear that learning 3ds Max will help in some ways in getting perspective down. I have trouble 'wrapping' my forms. I'll do the same thing in 3ds once I'm more skilled, which would be to say, render a dragon or whatever creature I want. But I should then keep in mind it will only be as good as a reference for getting the perspective down. I shouldn't go crazy with trying to learn digital lighting yet, I presume?

I've also asked this same question in /ic/ and I've been told to simply paint the clay texture as it is first in order to learn how the light will fall, without trying to substitute a texture from my imagination. I'm eagerly taking that advice and this thread into consideration. Again, thanks, and let's keep this dialogue going.

[Noah Bradley]

James Gurney has some great info in his book, Imaginative Realism, about making, lighting, and using maquettes for his 2d work.

[Qitsune]

You have to consider that: rigging and posing a 3d model so that the joints bend properly is an art in itself, so its quite hard to use such models as a precise reference (unless using a biped as mentioned and only as a guideline) and lighting a piece naturally is also quite hard. So for the reference angle, it's pretty much only good for sharp cast shadows or complicated perspective.

[dose]

One thing 3D programs are good for is improving your conceptual understanding of lighting. To set this up in a way that's useful is a bit tricky, but the trick is to use a toon shader based on light angle (not brightness). If set up right, it will schematically represent where the light, halftone, and shadow are on a given form. An advantage then is the ability to rotate the view of the scene around while keeping the light source fixed and theoretically consistent, and since you can float the object in space you can view all around it without some other object obstructing it. This can help you gain a 3-dimensional understanding of which parts are in light, which are in shadow, and which are in halftone. This can help you understand how and where the modeling factors form, particularly on simple forms like spheres and cylinders. This can pay huge dividends drawing from both imagination and from life.

My experience is mostly with Maya, so I know the specifics of getting it set up there, but my experience with Max is pretty limited. I assume it can be done in there as well.