The CA Community Scholarships

[yinteck]

I have currently applied for TAD scholarship. Due to my financial background I'm unable to pay for the course fees.
In order to gain the scholarship I need as many vote as possible. I'll be grateful for your support to fulfill my dream because this will be my life changing experience. Thanks

Works - http://conceptart.org/forums/showpos...01&postcount=5

voting - http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=181148

[Hyskoa]

I have currently applied for TAD scholarship. Due to my financial background I'm unable to pay for the course fees.
In order to gain the scholarship I need as many vote as possible. I'll be grateful for your support to fulfill my dream because this will be my life changing experience. Thanks

Works - http://conceptart.org/forums/showpos...01&postcount=5

voting - http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=181148

I don't think advertising for votes on the forums is even allowed.
It's also remarkable how many people are in exactly the same position as you.

So why you and not algenpfleger or Moai?

[yinteck]

For me i dont think this is an advertising. It Is more like a sincere request.
All i wanted is to do my best to get what i really wanted for so long.
I'm sure other participants are also doing their best to make their dream come true.
I am just doing what I think is right with a good intention. If i dont get the scholarship, well at least i can said i try my best and i wont regret it later.
Thanks for your concern and may your wish come true too.

[GriNGo]

Hyskoa, don't be an ass/douche. Everybody can vote for whoever he wants, and I support yinteck if he thinks asking for it will help him get it. I'd rather vote for Yinteck, than for algenpfleger, you know why? Cause algenpfleger already could be WORKING in some company/freelance with the quality of work he already makes, YINTECK still needs that push to make his work become stellar. I prefer to help one who REALLY NEEDS HELP, then kiss ass all the time. And don't get me started with the 1st world /3rd world issues...

[Reymus]

But Gringo, aren't all scholarships based upon merit rather than need? I applied to TAD and from November 2007 to Dec. 2008 I was homeless, so I don't even have the background to apply for a loan (as far as I know).

I don't hold one way or the other but it's unfair to exclude someone like Algenpfleger just because of his experience though you have a point that some people don't have 24/7 access to the internet or paper to draw on.

Edit: I misunderstood, apologies, I understand where you're coming from.

[GriNGo]

I'm pretty sure TAD thought about some scholarships that are need based. I also applied for it this year, but I'm pretty sure I won't get it. And I think you didn't understand my post. I'm not excluding Algenpfleger at all, I think his stuff is awesome, too good. IMO I think he could be working right now. Making a living of this. But if he wants to study, then cool for him. But I'd rather help normal people out you know? Not just the superstars, who everyone will vote for anyway.

[Two Listen]

I've always hated scholarships.

I respect TAD for their ideals and intentions.

But money is one of the primary factors in how disgusting our world is today. Art is supposed to be freeing, about expression and beauty. Of learning, and sharing. ...to taint something like that with a "necessity" of money...

I don't even want to think about money when I'm doing art. If it were possible for me to survive and keep my wife happy without it, I'd have nothing to do with it period.

One of my greatest regrets as an artist, or an "artistic hopeful" is that I have to consider money and payment.

Completely and utterly disgusting. I feel dirty just thinking about it.

[Darjan Jurincic]

I`m with Gringo on this one.
There are probably individuals who desreve it more than others, regardless of the skills they have.
D

[Armonah]

Cause algenpfleger already could be WORKING in some company/freelance with the quality of work he already makes, YINTECK still needs that push to make his work become stellar.

Heh, I kind of feel that way about almost everyone in there

But money is one of the primary factors in how disgusting our world is today. Art is supposed to be freeing, about expression and beauty. Of learning, and sharing. ...to taint something like that with a "necessity" of money...

I don't agree with this. Money is a necessity.
Besides that money is neutral. It's neither good nor evil (it isn't capable to be). That it turns the world in a "rotten place" has really to do with the humans that live in it, and reflects bad on human nature. To use an analogy: money and power are like conjoined twins, and we all know what happens to people with power.

But I digress. My problem with these polls is that they're basically popularity contests. I personally would've preferred if an unbiased judge looked at each entry individually, and that way decide who deserves it most, not the community itself. While the CA community isn't as popularity-driven and cliquey as some other communities, we're far from unbiased.

[Jason Manley]

I've always hated scholarships.

I respect TAD for their ideals and intentions.

But money is one of the primary factors in how disgusting our world is today. Art is supposed to be freeing, about expression and beauty. Of learning, and sharing. ...to taint something like that with a "necessity" of money...

I don't even want to think about money when I'm doing art. If it were possible for me to survive and keep my wife happy without it, I'd have nothing to do with it period.

One of my greatest regrets as an artist, or an "artistic hopeful" is that I have to consider money and payment.

Completely and utterly disgusting. I feel dirty just thinking about it.

Food is not disgusting.

Paying electricity is not disgusting.

Buying the awesome art supplies is not disgusting.

Getting paid to do what you love is not disgusting.

Something tells me you may have someone paying your bills. When one is working full time, slaving away at some job that eats their best creative time when they could be doing art to pay those bills...that is disgusting. An art career is a wonderful thing and like those in music or games or film, art is valuable trade that is worth earning.

[Two Listen]

Calm down Jason. I'm not shitting on your baby. At least not the idea of it.

Your powers of deduction need a little bit of work, though. I've got plenty of damn bills to pay, a dental situation that's eating away my savings from my tech support job (for an incredibly crappy, somewhat corrupt company) to a point of near financial ruin, a wife to support in addition to figuring out a way out of it all. I've moved 900 miles across the country twice in the past two years, have had to buy 2 cars, and am still without any type of insurance in spite of my efforts.

But money is disgusting. A product of human greed and idiocy, nothing more. Which I suppose makes its being a necessity make an incredible amount of sense, as greed and idiocy seem to almost be a requirement for humanity period.

Getting paid to do what you love might not be disgusting.

But doing what you love for the sake of sharing it with the world alone, is beautiful.

PS: I'm still waiting on a reply to those PMs.

[Line]

It's hard to say if you must award a scholarship based on what your heart feels and what your brains thinks.

It's a fact that there are artists out there who have little technical ability, little money and no source for training. The biggest problem is the lack of a place to train. If that wasn't an issue, people wouldn't be thinking of this program, no matter how good it is. Add financial difficulties in the mix and you have people who are dependant on a scholarship. Do they deserve a scholarship if they work as hard, if not harder than advanced artists? You bet.

But the advanced artist has been through hell too. Even the one who had money to go study art had to put many hours into it. No one just poured the stuff in his brain. And even if all the training such an artist may require is just a '3 hour lecture' compaired to lower level artists, they've worked for it. Don't they deserve it? You bet they do.

This whole thing is a double edged sword. I couldn't vote even for the artist I liked because the difference from others was small, and because some of the lower level artists show promise and need the scholarship more, or at least I think so.

Two Listen has a point about scholarships and money, but I'm hoping there will be people who will benefit from them, who wouldn't be able to advance without them.

At the same time though, education in general shouldn't be a machination to get the best professional slaves, nor a goal for which people sacrifice even their humanity for 'success'. Self-made I-worked-hard-and-sacrificed-everything-type successful people are most probably the world's greatest fascists and are responsible for where we are today. Let's not make them an example.

[Arshes Nei]

As long as someone is a member of CA and not a "carpetbagger" I really don't care who and why you vote for someone for the scholarships. There are many reasons many deserve a shot to make their dream work - have the most potential or drive to make it work.

I don't care about the in community advertising either, but make it clever. Think how you're going to be competing with many people in the industry with many creative ideas as yourself so figure out a good way to promote yourself within the community. Just a thought

[zulu]

Who needs more an scholarship? the fisherman or the guy that doesn't knows how to fish?.

[Reymus]

Who needs more an scholarship? the fisherman or the guy that doesn't knows how to fish?.

Wouldn't the fisherman just settle for a snazzy boat?

I assume it's those with training vs. those without you're referring to and who would benefit the most. Obviously the person dosen't know would like to fish, then again the fisherman spent all those years training, so he might look forward to a better boat/equipment rather than a dinghy, then again he's already makin' money fishin'.

Personally, coming from poverty, I'm biased towards the poor.

[Two Listen]

Wouldn't the fisherman just settle for a snazzy boat?

This is always what confused me. If you have the money to give someone a snazzy boat, surely you have the money to get many people going with dinghies?

Then again, I suppose if you did that - the experienced fisherman would be frustrated and angry. Because nobody gave him a dinghy. He worked hard and suffered and bought his own, and has only made small upgrades since.

Then again, if you give the experienced fisherman a snazzy boat, that's still a ton of people having difficulty even getting started. Nobody's going to wind up giving them a snazzy boat. Some of them don't even have dinghies.

Guess it's not really "fair" either way. In the end, someone will wind up depressed and missing out. That's just how the world is. Because in this world, even when you do a kindness, such as either example above - it winds up being "unfair".

Only in a world like this can the fisherman not build himself a small cabin in the woods with his bare hands, or get the wood for his own boat because the section of forest nobody's set foot on in years is "owned" by someone, and the trees are on "private property" where the rich asshole goes frisbee golfing, or whatever else is the case.

...only in this type of world, can you not share information, beauty, learning, experience, and truth for free - for the sake of it - because doing so might later cost you your home or your ability to do so on any type of effective scale, because other people are profiting off of the same thing and the debt collectors are coming after you all regardless.

In a world like this, the only thing that really fixes it for me is being with my wife, and painting pretty pictures. ...maybe I'm just childish, though. To each is his own.

You guys can have the scholarships. Good luck with it.

[Merlkir]

Hello,

I can't say I'm a regular here, but I was told about this discussion and feel like sharing my thoughts.

I think these scholarships are a great idea.
Money is dirty? Sure. I dislike how our lives are driven by money.
But do I think it makes art impure? No.

It's a way to get stuff one needs to live, like it or not.
Now, how I think scholarships work - either you're very poor and want to get an equal chance as the more fortunate ones. There are poverty scholarships that let these people study.

I think the case here is more of the performance scholarship - exceptional and promising individuals are rewarded for their efforts. Capitalists would probably describe it as investment into their talent and hard work, we give them money, so they don't have to worry about that and can concentrate on getting better at art - when they do, we'll profit.

Of course, it's questionable if anyone other than them is going to profit from their abilities (= earn money) - but the hope here (I think) is that we'll all "profit" = enjoy the amazing results of their abilities.


In conclusion - it's important to realize why these scholarships are being given.
If they're supposed to support the most promising young artists who can't afford to go to school, I think you can't tell Algen he doesn't need it.

I find this notion quite funny even - "Dude, you're ok at art, let someone else who's not that good get better!"
You'll get two people who are "rather good at art".

Is that the point? Or would you rather get one really amazing artist?

I thought it was the latter.

Anyways, sorry for the rant from a stranger! I just like the idea of these scholarships a lot. Good stuff!


-------

EDIT: yeah, agreed with Two Listen - life's not fair. People will be disappointed.

[Line]

I find this notion quite funny even - "Dude, you're ok at art, let someone else who's not that good get better!"
You'll get two people who are "rather good at art".

Is that the point? Or would you rather get one really amazing artist?

I thought it was the latter.

If it were a case of 'OK at art' versus 'beginner at art', then there would be no dillema. The dillema arises because you have 'fantastic pro material artist' versus 'beginner at art'.

It's like comparing Michael Schumacher with his F1 to your average Joe and his Volvo, comparing Arnold Scharzenegger to a guy who's never lifted weights.

And if those analogies aren't good enough, how's this one, it's like having two sprinters, one is at the starting line and the other one is already running and half way through the track, and you take the one with the head start and place him 10 meters before the finish line. Who's gonna win?

It reminds me of supposed 'govenrment funding' and all that stuff. They give billions away to help fix the economy or help various industries take up, and in the end the ones who get most of the cash are the ones who already have plenty of money to begin with!

In any case, the scholarship winners have been announced. Congratulations to them by the way. I'm kinda dissapointed that links to their art haven't been posted cause I was counting on that, but I'm even more dissapointed by the fact that I was expecting to see a list of 100 names in total, yet the total number of winners is 1/4 of that. I understand why and what TAD is doing, but the expectation was different based on what they had said.

[GriNGo]

Yeah, congrats to those who got it (even if it wasn't full tuition). If I'm not mistaken, the Community scholarship hasn't been anounced either, so I still guess that Algen will win this one, so good luck to him too.

@Merlkir: I really think everybody here has a potential to become a really amazing artist. Potential that is, that with proper training, will get you honestly to the ranks of the Marko's, Jone's, Elwell's of the industry. As Line mentioned, Algen is not simply "rather good at art", he's an excellent illustrator - already on the levels of the people I mentioned. Just check out the stuff he churned out for TEAM CHOW. Or some of the studies in his SB. It's TOP OF THE LINE work, not simply "good enough". I'm pretty sure he needs a bit of direction in some places... (all of us do) but in comparison to the rest of the candidates however (which I consider to be good artists), he doesn't need it as much as them IMO. And if you check out one of his last posts in Algen's SB, where he asks people to vote for him, there are lots of replies that go along this line: "Hey, i really think you don't need it, but I'll vote for ya anyway". As I said, I'd rather see more artists get the help they deserve, then just focus on the superstars.

[zulu]

this is ART, not a fame contest, is not like you are good or not, you make yourself good, you practice every day, and there is no finish line, this is forever, you will die without knowing the half, is no about helping the guy that can walk by himself, is about helping people that are starting, that is a POTENTIAL artist, the guy that allready is on the road is an artist, and is up to him to become good, that is what i think, i would love some one helped me, but i preffer doing it by myself, like ive been doing, and i am happy working doing art and my studies every day.

[Line]

And if you check out one of his last posts in Algen's SB, where he asks people to vote for him...

He did that? How come he isn't working somewhere yet? Or is he? This bothers me because if Hyskoa thought Yinteck's request was out of line, what about this?

Let's get some things straight. Germany, where Algen lives, has quite a few things going for it but in this case two are most important.

1)There are institutions to study and the tuition is covered by the govenrment.

2)The government funds you if you are an artist. They pay your rent, your bills and give a salary, so you're off concentrating on getting better, nothing bothering your mind.

Meanwhile others are bashing their brains trying to cram in an hour or two of training, losing sleep, and trying to keep their body working after a days worth of working an 8 hour job, cooking, washing your clothes, running around like crazy to pay all those bills and manage to go to the toilet to 'sit down and think'. If they have some time to be social they can consider themselvs lucky.

Life ain't fair sure, but when someone is THAT good and having so much potential help already, asking for votes is...well...like Bill Gates asking for wellfare. What do you call that?

[Shantih]

Perhaps next time (if there is one) it'd help if TAD was more specific about whether this should be considered a skills only scholarship or a needs based one.

Whatever the case, I get people are annoyed but maybe be careful of using Algen as an example every five minutes, I don't know the guy but as far as I can tell he's just trying to get the best education possible and the issue is how the scholarship was arranged rather than him.

[Line]

Perhaps next time (if there is one) it'd help if TAD was more specific about whether this should be considered a skills only scholarship or a needs based one.

Whatever the case, I get people are annoyed but maybe be careful of using Algen as an example every five minutes, I don't know the guy but as far as I can tell he's just trying to get the best education possible and the issue is how the scholarship was arranged rather than him.

Well put and understood. But it still doesn't take away the fact that if Yinteck's request was out of line (and I don't think it was) then Algen's was out of this world. Maybe Hyskoa's idea wasn't so bad after all.

One thing is for sure, I wouldn't want to be one of the guys who had to choose the scholarship winners. It's a tough job.

[Arshes Nei]

Well put and understood. But it still doesn't take away the fact that if Yinteck's request was out of line (and I don't think it was) then Algen's was out of this world. Maybe Hyskoa's idea wasn't so bad after all.

One thing is for sure, I wouldn't want to be one of the guys who had to choose the scholarship winners. It's a tough job.

Actually it would be the opposite. Because Algen asked on his own sketchbook thread. Yinteck asked randomly in the lounge.

However, I again don't really have problems asking within the community to ask someone to vote for you. It's when people log into other people's accounts, make fake accounts, or use proxies then ask outside the community to get voted for a "community scholarship" I have to keep an eye on.

[Ian Barker]

This is a weird-ass thread.

TAD has a bunch of money to give. They will give it to the same people every other school gives money to, the people who will make their program look good.

Also, you don't need lots of money to become a great artist, so I don't feel sorry for those who can't afford a fancy education (I am one of them). Everyone has access to pencil and paper. That's all Marko Djurdjevic used to get to Massive Black and Marvel.

imo

[Reymus]

Also, you don't need lots of money to become a great artist, so I don't feel sorry for those who can't afford a fancy education (I am one of them). Everyone has access to pencil and paper. That's all Marko Djurdjevic used to get to Massive Black and Marvel.

imo

That's an extremely isolated example though, and I don't think most of the people who applied for a scholarship (or people who apply for them in general) do it necessarily for a fancy education, just a normal education.

Pencil and paper are accessible anywhere, yes, but behind those two tools are years of reading/reference/practice that you would need at least some economic support for.

[himlayan]

Actually it would be the opposite. Because Algen asked on his own sketchbook thread. Yinteck asked randomly in the lounge.

However, I again don't really have problems asking within the community to ask someone to vote for you. It's when people log into other people's accounts, make fake accounts, or use proxies then ask outside the community to get voted for a "community scholarship" I have to keep an eye on.

Algen and Janaschi also asked in their DAs to vote for him, though, but they did specifically say to vote for him only if they have existing CA accounts, and these two have a ton of fans (me being one of them XD crazy talent). I am very confused about the whole thing, ethically speaking. People just coming on board to vote then leaving again, regardless of whether or not they already had an account to begin with, doesn't seem to be in line with a CA Community-awarded scholarship from what I understood of Jason's initial post. But the reply to the query Knoxie sent seems to suggest encouragement in self-promotion of all manners. I don't really have a problem with the self-promoting thing in general, but I feel a little bad for the other artists in that poll who may have thought that asking for votes within or outside of CA would be frowned upon (let the active CA Community look at the work and decide who could benefit from the education the most, and all that). I mean, I'm just a voter and I thought it would be, I imagine some of those names assumed it would be, too.

I think Algen would have probably won it, regardless, from what I remember of the poll before the whole self-promotion issue. I was whirling like a headless chicken among him, fersteger, and Moai, too (and SAGIR... and Victorior... seriously, it was hell deciding) before finally deciding on fersteger. But I still remember seeing the landslide numbers on Algen's side after voting when the vote results popped up and thinking it was already a clear win for him.

Maybe in the future, the poll's results can be hidden (with a big reveal at the end of voting period, that might be fun!) and the yea/nay on self-promotion can be stated prior to voting. Learning experience on handlers' and voters' ends and all that. For now, advanced congratulations to Algen, whose portfolio rocks this world, and I'm really glad that some of the names on that poll already have a form of scholarship granted to them by the portfolio review board. Very well-deserved, everyone!

[Armonah]

...and the yea/nay on self-promotion can be stated prior to voting

Please no. I have nothing against self-promotion in a field where you have to get yourself out there, but I do when it's in a contest where it's about who deserves it most instead of who knows the most people or can make best use of his/her social network. Because that's what happened here.

This is by no means an attack on anyone who made use of that, neither is it for Jason, because I can see what his intentions were for this. But I hope it's going to be settled differently next time (by for instance having an unbiased judge look at the entries individually. Which is what I thought would happen in the first place).

[Line]

you don't need lots of money to become a great artist, so I don't feel sorry for those who can't afford a fancy education (I am one of them). Everyone has access to pencil and paper. That's all Marko Djurdjevic used to get to Massive Black and Marvel.

imo

So, if you're already at a high level, you don't need the scholarship either. Problem solved. But, it's not really all black and white is it?

[Arshes Nei]

Algen and Janaschi also asked in their DAs to vote for him, though, but they did specifically say to vote for him only if they have existing CA accounts, and these two have a ton of fans (me being one of them XD crazy talent). I am very confused about the whole thing, ethically speaking. People just coming on board to vote then leaving again, regardless of whether or not they already had an account to begin with, doesn't seem to be in line with a CA Community-awarded scholarship from what I understood of Jason's initial post.

Yeah I still don't have a problem with existing accounts that have been here. There are actually people I know who have lurked on the site for years to learn from CA. It was a ton of new sign ups that had no intention on being on the site or people proxying through multiple accounts that caused me to step in.

This again wasn't really about Algen wanting to win anyways, it was when other votes got mysteriously skewed (due to the factors I mentioned earlier) at certain points and I noticed the traffic and posted the warning to keep it a bit more fair.