Please Help: *update* OZ Concept help- Right side looks boring, ideas?

[Raptor]

**my latest set of problems are in further posts, the lions anatomy is fixed, scarecrow and toto are both finished, I am on the home stretch and now I need to make the right side look interesting. What would you do?**
Does any one have experience with large cats?

I am experimenting with a take on the wizard of OZ. The "tin-man" and lion are both meant to be huge with Dorothy riding the lion. The lion is not a coward in this interpretation. My end work I am intending to look realistic yet with hyperbole and odd juxtaposition of character. Kinkade-esk' but odd like Tim Burton.

I have done several revisions to the Lion but have not been satisfied especially with the legs and the rear.


sketch-overs are welcome if anybody has the time.

[dpaint]

The bone structure should be easy to look up, as lion anatomy. As a matter of fact I just googled it and found hundreds of images. Then it is a matter of pose and making the body more robust. Right now the lion has an ape look to the body.

[Artfix]

It looks like you have a good handle on this already. The face of the lion looks good what you have goin'. Just find some reference

[Raptor]

Well, I have a ton of references already, but all at odd angles. I am not concerned with the head or the neck, but I am wanting this to be close to photo-realistic and my framework is not yet solid.

[Truepinkas]

Not an expert, but a couple of things. Your lion's back has too great a dip in it from the shoulders, it's less sudden than that. Actually I don't think there's really a dip at al in the refs I've seen. Lions, and other cats have VERY large hind quarters, even in perspective, your are too small and skinny. When cats are walking, it is common for there rear legs to extend back quite a bit before coming forward in their stride.

I did a super terribad sketch that I'm sure has it's own issues, but might help give you a better idea of where to go.

I love 're-imaginings' of things so this has got me excited to see more.

Best wishes

[Lhune]

Truepinkas pretty much got the idea right . Lions have pretty long bodies and very powerful legs, as well as a very majestic stride. Even though this is a cub, it makes clear how they stretch their limbs when they walk:



If you Google "Lion standing" or "Lion walking" you should get plenty of reference for this picture you're working on. That they are in different angles should be no problem, if you study the references of walking and standing lions well enough, you should be able to apply their anatomy and form to your own lion.

Also note the size of your lion's paws. They are enormous in proportion to it's body.

I drew up some redlines as well, I hope this helps.

[Raptor]

wow guys, this helps a lot! I will update and post my changes

[Truepinkas]

I wana be Lhune when I grow up LOL.

[Lhune]

I wana be Lhune when I grow up LOL.

LOL I think you're already past me xD (in age, am I right? I'm 19).

And you'd need a sex change ;D.

[Raptor]

LOL I think you're already past me xD (in age, am I right? I'm 19).

And you'd need a sex change ;D.

HAHAHAA! this is pretty funny. are you going to school or working Lhune? your lines are confident.

[Lhune]

HAHAHAA! this is pretty funny. are you going to school or working Lhune? your lines are confident.

I'm currently working (as a waitress), I just finished the Dutch secondary school last year and I'm hoping to attend to an Art school this year, if they'll let me in. I haven't had any education in arts yet so I'm pretty excited .

I'm glad you think my lines are confident haha, to me they're just a mess ^^.

[Raptor]

OK, so I I made the changes advised. (special thanks to Lhune) now I am working on Dorothy and fighting to get the lighting on everything right. I want them to be walking into the foreboding unknown but the lion especially needs more dynamics the the color and lighting.

Started on Dorothy, I really like her lighting but i am having some proportion issues between the head and body, breast sizing and how to have her dress flow and look side saddle.

Tin man should be fine except for his stupid feet. getting everything to *mesh* is really tricky

so help:
1. lighting and the lion
2. Dorothy's structure
3. her dress
4. lighting hegemony tips
5. whatever I missed that you see

[Razorleaf]

I love the environment! Three things stick out right away for me. Her feet are in the wrong position, the lion is missing his tail and its a bit too dark on the right side of the painting. Overall though I really do like this - it has a nouveaux kindof twist on the original. I'm looking forward to seeing this one finished. Really Nice!

[Raptor]

thanks, I am trying to figure out how to lighten up the right side yet make it feel more creepy, like they are traveling into the unknown.

[Razorleaf]

travelling the unknown ...... I would simply change the environment. Introduce something new to the right side of the painting, something in contrast to where the characters are coming from. Like entering the forbidden forest. That way you can still have your brighter lighting on the left side of the painting and the darker on the right. Good luck!

[Raptor]

I am trying to combine 3 aspects into scarecrow
1. Zombie - Because hes looking for a brain (to eat)
2. Crow - I like the literal aspect of a scary crow
3. Scarecrow - it still needs to tie back to the original character in some way

Im leaning towards doing more clothing theme to relate him.


I am open to all kinds of suggestions on how to stitch these concepts together.

[Black Spot]

I like where this is going. The Tin Man and the Lion have strong shadows, but Dorothy doesn't.

The crow concept is wicked.

[Kitpup]

Not getting a particularly strong 'zombie' vibe from the scarecrow. Or scarecrow vibe for that matter, he mainly looks like an anthro-crow with pants.

To lean zombie I'd suggest feathers falling out. To lean scarecrow I'd suggest giving him seams and stuffing falling out.

[Truepinkas]

I agree, not feeling zombie, but if you give him blue/grey fogged over eyes, i think it'll come thorough pretty easily.

Your going to have to do a lot with the clothing to tie it back in, because if i didn't know what this piece was, I'd of never guesses scarecrow, I would of more guessed harpy. I know the hat might be cheesy, and cut down on the scary, but might make it more recognizable. Just a thought though, it's looking bad ass.

[Raptor]

Ugg, yeah, I was really wanting to avoid the hat but its kind of the staple of a scarecrow. maybe a vest and some stitches. I think straw AND feathers might be trying to do to much, I am [edit:not] fully confident in the direction this concept is headings but there are lots of pieces about it I like

which would look more zombie like, black sunken in eyes barely visible, or grey foggy eyes?

I might try to give him green highlights.
-thanks blackspot, i lightened up the lions shadows to match dorothy

[Pavel Sokov]

Wow this is going to be a badass painting. I'm out of my league here so I can't give you any helpfull critiques I am afraid.

Is the tin man a 3d model?

Also can you run me through how you took the walkway texture and manipulated it into the right perspective so well?

Also I was hoping you would attach the character more to the ground soon. I know you will place down the shadows sooner or later, but I was hoping sooner because right now it looks a bit like a collage.

[Raptor]

Yes, the tin man is a 3d model, I sketched it out on paper first then layed the paper over my tabletpc screen and traced it into z brush using the paint z-spheres tool. Its a pretty backwards approach and so far i think i am the only one to work like that. Once I got the robots volume in I then used the hard surfaces brush to scultpy it a bit further, and then I took several renderings of him into photoshop and used layer modes to get the material to look good, I actually had one texture that was a reflection map of the background painting to help me out. I then flattened him and used the smudge brush because zbrush was kind of polygonal and pixely.

For the road:
•I made three tillable brick files, specular, bump diffuse.
•I made a path that followed a spline and gave it those textures. Then, like the robot I placed the background painting in the 3d environment and rendered the road with subtle ray trace reflection to png. It takes some tinkering to position the painting in 3d space to get the reflection how your want it.
•once I have it rendered I take the road from the png file and drop it into my main background paining. if it dosnt fit quite right I use the warp feature in the "free transform" mode.
•I position it, make final color level adjustments, paint a few strokes over the top to make it look like it belongs, and then flatten it.

I hope that is clear, feel free to ask questions if its not

the shadows are probably going to be one of the last things as I am still futzing with the lighting and overall color of the composition. after everything is in place I will do light painting touch-up to harmonize everything

[Kya Hill]

Looking great! But no Toto?

[Raptor]

OF COURSE TOTO! -I just did not post him yet. But now that you mention it. I have an initial sketch and a more refined realistic toto. but I just cant capture the caricature of the first toto. which do you folks Like better?

[Kitpup]

A looks more 'Totoish' in the perky annoying canine way, but it also looks like he's an afterthought. So I'd have to say B.

[Pavel Sokov]

I canèt reallt reccomend Toto A, he looks like a squirell, go for B.
Hey, home come is he on the right side of Dorothy?
When I look at the character layout, the lion's mane is in that space.

I find it looks, fits, and flows better when Toto is on the left of her

[Sticky Tack]

one thing that's buggin me is that the lion isn't attached to the road, he looks like he's been greenscreened in, or like a mount in a mmorpg. Look how quickly the perspective on the road dwindles, like it's going back miles between the lion's front and back sets of paws, yet the back paws are as big as the front ones. The rest is pretty bitchin though, keep it up!

[yaymukund]

Definitely B, for the reasons already mentioned. If you want to try and make B look like A, I think you have to remove the details surrounding the eye so it doesn't look so dark, and make the eyeball smaller. I gave it a shot (I hope you don't mind, I can delete if you do!)

[Raptor]

"Photoshop unexpectedly quit."
AHHHHGG PHOTOSHOP
I was on the home stretch of integrating the characters and doing all the tiney fine tuneing tweaks and shadows, 3 hours ALL LOST!

*sigh* oh well back to the drawing pad.

Dude, thanks! that makes the dog look a lot cuter!
I will futz a little bit with the scale to make them fit better, thanks for the heads up sticky tack.

Updates to come, I still want to get this close to finished today so I can get feedback, thanks guys.

[Raptor]

Progress update, I still have
to put todo in,

• deadfeathers on the trail,
• color adjust dorothy,
• highlight scarecrow more,
• background flying monkeys,
• background forbidden forest (maybe)
• paintover background (again) to keep style the same.
• final camera bloom filter.

any ideas go ahead and belt them out, I want this think to be immaculate.