Team ChoW III - Ace Holes

[Tommoy]

Nic, thanks for pointing out the thumb. Bettering it I noticed the hammerhead wasn't placed correctly too. The Tower still doesn't feel right to me but I can't lay my finger on it.
Been working on the Ace of Wands, it also stands for creativity, so I've given him a very creative saddle

On your image, be careful with over detailing her wardrobe. At this point I can hardly see what she's doing with her arms. I guess they're hanging straight against her body. Her whole attitude feels a little stiff, maybe letting her hold the spear or let her point at the viking would be an option. On the horn I would say it could be a little smaller and more diagonal hanging on her back.

[Artofinca]

Moar awesomnezz!

[Tommoy]

How are the cards coming along guys? Don't forget the deadline is in sight
Wanted to do more, just for fun Probably wont finish these.

[Rambozo]

Tom : I like the fact you're exploring the sculpted-wood possibility on the saddle for your ace. I really hope you find something nice 'cause I reckon that's a great idea.

Wasn't planning on posting just yet, but since you asked : here's progress Wasted all day yesterday tryin' to glaze some colour onto this. Not a technique that works for me unfortunately, then again I haven't had much practice I guess. So, although this isn't what I had in mind this is the best I could pull out of it and with the time trickling away I'm gona finish her up over this base.

At first I wanted the wolves to be ghosts remember ? So that's the way I started drawin' 'em in B&W but then at some point while colouring I figured we were lacking a general common "feel" to our cards, like we seem to have gone in our own different directions. So I thought alright, maybe I could make these wolves like smoking fire-ball type things to tie in with Tom's Tower card a little more, usin' his blues and the fire at the top. (No, I haven't pulled that off, I know I know. I'll either have to go back to the lighter ghost idea in hopes of saving time, or redo the wolves with darker bodies and make the underlying flames and sparks pop out, hopefully), This is probably a good part of why the glazing isn't working on that bit : changed the idea mid-run... Anyway...

I'm not happy with it, but I'll have to move on soon. Changed the horn around but you can barely see it anymore so I'll have to shove it in her hand or something, maybe floating in-between both characters, glowing or something. A few more details all around, clear things up some...

***edit : thanks for suggesting moving the horn Tom. I'd thought of it earlier but figured it would get in the way of the wing-action and simply discarded the possibility. Seeing it rendered showed me sometimes looks are more important than logic and it was the right and simple thing to do here hehe***

So, with just about 7 days left now (already ???), work left to do on Judgement and a whole new Ace to illustrate from scratch, it's gona be a long hard week !!!

Comments, ideas ?

[seba_boi]

Oh wow, that Judgment card is a pure winner!...

The Tower is awesome and so is the Devil!... The pic with the girl who wants a new chicken is also ace!... This group is on a freakin' roll!...

[Tommoy]

First of all Nic, that's AWESOME. The warm versus cold color choice works great. And what a vicious looking wolf pac, love it! But be sure the wolves don't take over the leading role. Miss Judgement has to rule. Still not clear what her left arm is doing, why not let her point at the dude below? Also the horn looses its strength, it could easily be something else. It would be a shame but maybe it would be better to replace the two wolves on the upper left under the wing to give back the horn, I don't know. One minor other thing is the man's face, it's distracting. But overall, wonderful job, can't wait to see it finished.
You're right about the time is running out on us. I hope you, Tim and Bjorn will be able to finnish the two cards next week. Don't forget we also need time for the presentation.

[jozulus]

MAN, congratulation, wolves are MAKE THIS PICTURE FOR YOU!!! It became a strong and massive mass from an instable space! go on aces!

(just a suggetion> examine this dragonrider card, the dwarf"s (if its a dwarf) leg is different from the body, too long i think. And its a hard part, where the dragons back turn in our direction, you should make some study to find the right form ot it i think, make it from clay, or a basic 3d cg model...these are just pins in a haystack,so its o.k. at a first blink.

[B-Man]

Damn guys looking awesome! Nic those wolves kickass! Kicking ass!

[t i m]

Nic those wolves are outrageous. Tommoy amazing stuff! I'll be done by the deadline

[Niva.]

The Judgment card is indeed incredible but something got lost in the coloring process, the B&W looked so much better to me. The tower indeed turning out EPIC! You guys are doing great cheers!

[B-Man]

heres an early sketch of the chariot card. Im gonna try and make him more like a nature god and the bears will have some more characteristics and Im gonna make it all look dreamlike and deep foresty.
And for the ace of pentacles Im gonna try and add some armour and clothing. also gonna try and make it less flat. And if I find the time try and fix the colors so it ties in with the other cards. I hope I can live up to the Ace Hole standard.
I'll be done by deadline too so no worries there.

edit: Just thinking out loud. Looking at other illustrated cards and how they tie it together, I see that Magic the gathering uses color themes most of the time. But in our case it would be enough with just "nords/viking" theme. There is a deadline and other things in life taking up lots of time. I think its good if we could at least make a Acehole team frame that tie in with "nords/viking". Keep rocking mates! You are my heroes!



Edit2: So edit agin. thought I use this post some more.
Oki so I was soaking in Tommoy's crit from a few posts back and he had some great solutions on my ace card. So I did what he sugested and feel much better. i also added something to make it less naked.

[t i m]

Hey duders!

Love the progress guys, the finish line is almost in sight!

So yea, I changed my mind again, after looking at all your guys work and my intial piece, they just didn't fit, color, style, they weren't meshing. This will end up being the final, promise!

The Ace is coming along too, no worries guys.

[B-Man]

Tim - The composition in this latest version is not as good as the other. As for colors you could always desaturate the old one and go over it with a color layer and overlay.

[Rambozo]

Quick responses.

seba_boi & jozulus : Cheers !

Niva : Ya I didn't manage to quite pull off the colours like I thought, but it's something I can work with. I'll just put as much time as I can on it and juggle with the Ace.

Tom : You're quite right about the wolves vs. Judgement importance : I noticed that as well but I think (hope) I'm gona be able to draw the attention further to the character with a final layer of details in full white/black (I haven't used full-out white or black anywhere as of yet, so that should giver her much more contrast that the other elements... That's the theory at least haha).

And for the arm and horn, it's like I mentioned : I have to think of something else because with the wolves the horn really does disappear. This is the first thing I'm gona have to deal with. The Viking's face though, I believe you're not the only one to mention, but I find it quite a bit more distracting when the face isn't there. I keep thinking "what the hell happened to him ?". I'll probably go back and remove some further details from him in the end but I want to tackle the other problems first as I find them to be more urgent.

Björn : I hadn't thought of bears. That could be pretty cool actually, but I'ld say you're gona want to at the very least put them into some sort of a harnesses so we can understand that they are indeed chariot-pulling animals. An actual chariot might be important in this pic (and could be nice to design), but I think if you come up with some intricate harnesses that clearly show the bears are load-pulling animals then that could work as well. Maybe the chariot itself is somewhere behind the trees type of thing hehe.

There was this old vodka (?) pinup painting they ran in magazines here in the early 90s with a sword-wielding-chick being pulled by polar bears I wanted to post here as an example but I couldn't find it... Can't even remember what the brand was (was it vodka ?). I did find these pics though in the process so I figured I'ld post the ref's in case they might spark an idea for you :

http://www.darkromance.com/dr-bod/dr...-121606-01.jpg
http://llamabutchers.mu.nu/Chariot.jpg
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/bear_cavalry.jpg <--- you're gona have to copy paste this one for it to work... Just noticed that.
http://l.yimg.com/img.movies.yahoo.c...2454773481.jpg


***edit : found the pics, Finally ! Rumple Minze. Ok so she isn't being pulled by a bear but rather riding it... Anyway, here's what came to mind :
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u.../Image3867.jpg
http://cdn2.maxim.com/maxim/files/20...ChickSized.jpg
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...earchick_3.jpg

***


Tim : I have to agree with Björn, your other Death "from above" was immensely superior in my eyes. The composition, the armour. If the colours are an issue then you can glaze a layer over and change things around some. It really would be a shame to waste that version I reckon.


.

[Tommoy]

Bjorn, I agree with Nic it would be better if there's a chariot in it, pulled by the bears would be cool. That can be pretty amazing, look at the reference Nic pulled out of his sleeve. The Ace of pentacles is coming along great, I understand you still are going to add armor/clothing.

Tim, I wonder why you've chosen too leave your former Death, I thought you were on the right track. But of course its your call. There are a few thing about this card, first of all it being less original, but it could be you have some ideas to make it stand out. There are also issues with the horse, I think its too small, ore Death is too big ether way. Armor looks good though.

Besides working on my Ace and Tower cards I did some work on the frame design, will come back on that later.
Keep up the good work peeps.

[t i m]

Thanks for the input guys, I'll see what I can do with the birdseye view to spice it up a and finish that one off. I guess I was digging the orange sky. No worries

[B-Man]

Nic - thanks for the sugestions. Im gonn a try and put him on a chariot. Great reference aswell, thanks for that. That peppermint snaps add is awesome gonna try and find a bottle somwhere.

Tom - Thanks man, If time lets me add more armor and nords looking design I will. Right now I need to concentrate on making the chariot look worthy. Deadlines closing in fast! Its awesome that you find time to pick up two more cards and still be able to work on a frame! Impressive!

Tim - Its your call man, Either way I think you will make a great peice!

Shit, look at the time! I need sleep.

[Rambozo]

Tim : Quick post before hitting the sac. I was thumbing some stuff for my new Ace and had an idea for the horn on Judgement. I think it might be cool but I'll try and work it a little before I post anything.

But to get to the point : as I was sketching away at my stuff I had an idea for Death's sickle. Now I'm not so hot on the sickle idea because it's the typical reaper-death bit right ? But I reckon you're rather set on it so it's all goo. Now I noticed you hadn't actually drawn it in in any of the pics yet, and with that in mind I figured : it would be cool if the sickle was matched to the armour, you know, like a Vutton bag to Gucci shoes right ? (no, I don't know what either of those look like... But I'm guessing it's a veeeery fashionable combination haha).

Ok, so basically have the sickle mimic the raven somehow, specifically the head. They have beautiful skulls and lookin' at mine I suddenly saw some kind of a sickle right there. Righ, so amongst these thumbs I've pulled out two quickies to show you what I mean. I don't fancy them as final designs or anything, I just wanted to have something to show you, see if maybe this could be a path that suits your fancy. If not then it's all good, I'm still gona like ravens hehehe

[B-Man]

So I redid the chariot. Amd as usual Im alot happier. Theres always poop that needs to come out befor something less poop. Im gonna work on this and render it and also work on the values alot more. Tom is it ok if I try and paint a sky that loks something like the one in the tower peice to make some concistency?

[Tommoy]

It's totally up to you Bjorn.

I did some attempt for border design.

[B-Man]

Im not a big fan of tribals but I like the one with tribals and black in it the most. It really make the frame efect.the other one is kinda dull. Im gonna try and come up with some frame Ideas too.
So heres some progress on the chariot.
Btw that deamon is awesome!

[B-Man]

Hardworking with 4 days to go!
Im not sure I could redo the whole chariot again but if there is huge disturbing errors, please let me know



Edit: A friend of mine pointed out his right shoulder so I tried fixing it. It still need some work, Im gonna let it sink in and work more on it later.

[Rambozo]

Tom : Diggin' the devil. The gear might be slightly too medieval-continental Europe perhaps (?), but it's too early to tell. Great colours and I'm lovin' the way the axe is flaming up at the blade : should be a good reason to have some menacing lights/shadows cast on the body and face etc. Cool. If you have time to finish 'er up this should be a nice addition to the collection. I don't remember what the story behind the devil card was though, what's the low down on this baby ?

For the frames I'll try and cook something up on my end as well. At the moment I find the ones you've posted to bulky, thick, solid. They draw my attention away from the card itself. Between the two I prefer the bottom one (the grey one that has what would appear to be leather strands braided all 'round) as I think it would work better in this regard : we could lighten it up a little and tone down it's visual impact.


Björn : I think this version of the chariot works better You might be able to keep the woods in the BG (previous pic) *** etc., but it's important that we see the bears being frantic, pushing, struggling, maybe slightly against each other as that is the whole point of the card : the querent taming both of his quarrelling inner-sides and pushing these opposing energies in one controlled direction. Good hehe I also like the fact that the polar bear is banged-up : a further visual reminder that the bears have been at each other. Excellent touch although I would say go with it : have them scars dig in DEEP, have an ear half-ripped off. Hell I don't know, a f+cked-up eye maybe, split lip, not necessarily BLOODY just old wounds, all little details that would really make this look sick dude I would suggest making the bears slightly larger as well, so we can really get the perspective of the whole scene, that they're really hurling themselves right at us.


*** = edit : just noticed the Cloudy sky in the latest version, light trying to beem down through the clouds. This could work as well. Like you said might be an extra way of tying our cards in together. In other words : forget what I just said about the trees ***

Alright, I'll get back to you guys with some sketchies of boarders and the Ace ! DAMN that schedule !!

[B-Man]

Nic - I could scar them a bit more but Its kanda hard. Bears have a lot of fur that covers alot of it. I could add naked paches where the fur been riped off and healed but It might end up making em look sick . I made em bigger and It made a huge difference! Thanks. I should have you around all the time when Im working!
I maped out some color on this peice. Tried to tie it together with the tower a bit and I think I was fairly successful. Im gonna give it some workover and try and fix stuff that look weird and replace hues that dont match. Im starting to feel confident about my cards. And with the deadline in sight Its a nice feeling.

[Rambozo]

I didn't get to work on this much yesterday unfortunately : wasted my afternoon at the hospital gettin' the vaccines for the Vietnam gig (which set me back a few as well...) and then when I got home my girlfriend's dog died so... Well, managed a little drawin' but barely.

Björn : I suppose it could be a challenge. But hey that's half the fun right ? I'll admit with the deadline commin' in maybe it's better to leave those details until later in case you run out of time (or out completely if you ain't feelin' it of course). And glad to help, we're teammates after all hehe

Here are a few scar refs if you end up leaning that way (not the best but I didn't want to waste much time searching as they might not be useful to you) :
http://www.oceanlight.com/lr/full/f8...2579a4ad06.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jYYUQ9FjsE...s+scar+800.jpg
http://www.animalliberationfront.com...uiDogScars.jpg
http://www.kohchanganimalfoundation....ete-face-3.jpg



I patched together quick boarder ideas. They're nothing very nice at the moment, more like trails to explore or leads I should say. Hey it's a contribution at least hehe Still, here are the 2 that came out with any potential :

[B-Man]

That first frame is kinda hard too see. I like a clean look. Isnt it too much with a boat? Thanks for the reference Im gonna try and work more on scars. and also Im gonna try and add some shoulder armour too the chick. I still see her as a pacifist though.
heres my idea for frame it is the same twise, I just wanted to see how it looked on different cards.

[Rambozo]

Björn : only few Norse were actually raiding warriors You don't HAVE to suit her in armour, my concern lies more with the visual references, elements typically associated with the look we're goin' with. Maybe a shoulder-slung cape with a brooch exposing half of her chest, maybe a pouch (we are talking pentacles here after all hehe ), maybe braided hair and Mjolnir pendant. It can be anything really : I ended up redrawing Judgement's horn entirely based on an nose architectural element. Was inspired by a roof element, fooled around with it, a helmet popped in there somewhere and although you can't really spot them right-up anymore, I ended up with a new horn -Hmmm, should upload a pic I guess- Not finished of course, I'll do that once I drop it into the pic properly and play with the lighting off of it, maybe give it an inner fire, but still it was good fun.

I've gone and found you some more refs of Nordic style clothes, without armour (fuck I'm getting annoying with all these links aren't I? Just easier with pictures than words sometimes).

http://cadieux.mediumaevum.com/viking.html
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/arti...ong_skirts.gif
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/arti...riksstadir.jpg

http://www.hurstwic.org/history/arti...riksstadir.jpg
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/arti...ap_in_snow.jpg
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/arti...pix/brooch.jpg

http://www.hurstwic.org/history/arti...tadir_wool.jpg
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/arti...embroidery.jpg
http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images..._clouds_cr.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...g?t=1264727026
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs7/i/200..._by_Laerad.jpg



I agree about the boarders though : my drakkar one was way "to much" but I posted it 'cause I figured maybe the boat could influence a future choice. The wood texture maybe, a dragon's head somewhere, dunno really. I kind of liked the fact that the other one doesn't draw too much attention though.

Maybe we could use a single "box" with the card name, maybe something Klimtesque or like the top bit of the Walküre poster I uploaded ?

[t i m]

I like Nic's first design, and B-man's.

Oh here's some progress on the ace guys. I finished the "birdseye" death, which you guys seemed to like better, plus lord knows I suck at drawing horses

[Rambozo]

Daily progress... Been screwin' around with the sword mostly to get a general vibe I like, these are the two that came out the best I think. Gona aim for something in that direction, but I haven't found a set-up I like. Tried a few more, pulling magical-sword out of chest and the blood and guts routine, on a throne, fight scenes, hey look-at-me-I'm-one-tuff-yet-nonchalant-mother-f+cker pose... I've included one exploration of a fight scene here as I think I'm gona go with something dynamic (a fight scene that is), and I actually liked how the early, blotchy sky came out in this one (although I now see you can't tell with the giant covering it up... haha oh well). Anyway, whatever. More work on it tomorrow.

I read somewhere the deadline was Jan. 31rst at 23:59, that sounds just about right. And just about close as hell as well !

[Tommoy]

Did another atempt for the border, I think it must be possible to make something interesting regarding our subject. Those Vikings did some mean wood and stone carving. In the corners we could draw the four elements or something.
I've made a overview of all our cards, looks good I think.
In the Tower card I changed the dragon for a ship, it links nicely with Bjorns Ace card. If I want to use the Devil card I have to make a lesser arcana so I will try to push out the princess of cups tomorrow. Work to do for all of us.