My 3 personal favourites

**DaEvil1** · July 14th, 2009, 05:59 PM

I'm displaying my work online many places, and I find it hard to get usefull feedback (I've gotten some on WetCanvas, but I want more *greedy*), so I thought I'd show the three pieces Im least unhappy with and see if I can get some thoughts on them here as well. I'll try to give feedback as well, as I hate it when people expect to get something for nothing. So, would be cool to hear your thoughts.

"The Experiment".

Calacca

Tied Up

**DaEvil1** · July 14th, 2009, 09:01 PM

Hmm, not much response... Is my work that bland? Perhaps two new ones can help show how much in need I am for guidance...!

Lilly

Evil Clown

**Venger** · July 14th, 2009, 09:31 PM

Can I ask your age DaEvil1?

I suggest studying form and value as well as anatomy before you release your imagination

(it's not something you stop doing either!)

It'll benefit you in the long run.

I suggest you start a sketchbook and run through some of the tutorials on CA.
I'm not saying "stop drawing from your imagination, I'm saying as well as"

**DaEvil1** · July 15th, 2009, 07:05 AM

Asking for my age doesn't seem like a good sign... It's 23 though.

Though I'm not attempting to make any realistic portraits nor realistic studies of real life anymore (they bore me), I do constantly try to improve my understanding for anatomy and and values. But I usually do that through a lot of quick sketches rather than detailed work, which is perhaps what you are suggestng (?)

**Noa K** · July 15th, 2009, 09:09 AM

I wouldn't dissmiss Venger's advice all that quickly. making studies may be boring to you at the moment, but later on you will see how much they help, even in making "unrealistic" works. it will help you with anatomy, gestures, composition, and will basically give you the tools to transfer the image and story that is in your mind to us viewers.
try maybe doing some studies and then apply them to a piece you had in mind.
good luck!

**PsiBug** · July 15th, 2009, 09:49 AM

Howdy,

When posting in the critiques section, you are more likely to get replies and feedback if you post just one image and ask for feedback. After you receive feedback you can either redraw the image or continue to work on it and post an update, or you can move on to a new piece.

Even though it can be boring (or frustrating), the best way for you to improve is probably by doing many many drawings from reference photos, actively studying human anatomy and reading tutorials about shading, form, perspective, composition etc. You can alternate doing these types of studies with the drawings that you enjoy more and the whole process will improve your skill level.

As mentioned in a previous reply, starting a sketchbook thread (in the sketchbook section of this forum) is a great way to gather a bunch of your drawings in one place, add to them over time and observe your progress.

Keep up the good work.

Michael

**DaEvil1** · July 15th, 2009, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Noa K

I wouldn't dissmiss Venger's advice all that quickly. making studies may be boring to you at the moment, but later on you will see how much they help, even in making "unrealistic" works. it will help you with anatomy, gestures, composition, and will basically give you the tools to transfer the image and story that is in your mind to us viewers.
try maybe doing some studies and then apply them to a piece you had in mind.
good luck!

Let me clarify, I'm not dismissing his advice. I was asking for clarification if he meant doing much more detailed pieces taking longer time than I usually do. Because I'm already trying to get the grasp of values and anatomy (as well as other things) through quick and non-detailed sketches.

I like to take a Picasso approach to the subject of doing imaginative work. I'd like to be able to draw as realistically as possible to gain a better understanding of how I want my style to be. But if that means that I'm gonna draw a lot of works that will bore me, and in the lenght make me unmotivated to keep drawing, that's not gonna help really.

Psibug: I try to balance my drawings so that i don't lock myself into only things within my comfort zone, and never improve from there. Though doing a "proper" drawing (or at least one, I'll show the outside world), I can only do for subjects I'm motivated for, or I'll quit doing it pretty quickly because it's pretty consuming on the mind.

Perhaps I'll start a sketchbook, I'll check it out later and see.

**PsiBug** · July 15th, 2009, 01:05 PM

That's cool. I think the important thing is to proceed in whatever manner will make you happiest. I think all artists struggle with motivation some of the time.

You have received some useful feedback here so the options are:

1) follow the suggestions to improve faster.
2) state that you may follow some of the suggestions later.
3) explain that you aren't motivated enough to follow the suggestions.
4) state that the suggestions will not help you improve.
5) take no action.

Lots of people hover around the 2, 3 and 4 options.
Choose #1! It's that easy. even if you choose #1 for just five minutes a day it's better than any of the other numbers.

**Venger** · July 15th, 2009, 01:23 PM

One of my points been that the all look very flat - which is why I suggested working on form and value.
Let's not forget that Picasso had a very good understanding of all the basic principles (and then some). I suggest you look at his early works.
Even 5 - 10, 5 min drawings a day will help you - you don't have to pick boring subjects and you don't have to take them to finished as long as you get the process

**DaEvil1** · July 15th, 2009, 01:26 PM

OK. The problem I got, is that the advice I got is very general, and I'm already doing my best to improve on those areas as far as my motivation allows me to do. By all means, it's good advice, but I'm not born yesterday, so I've read up quite a bit on how to improve. The reason I made this thread, is that I'm looking for specific feedback on my style and drawings. I don't have anything against general feedback and advice, it's just that I've already heard most of it before, and having a second pair of eyes pinpointing how my work actually looks, is in my experience 100 times more helpfull than something like "you should study anatomy more so you'll improve".

I have no problems if people don't want to give specific feedback. That's their perogative, but it's what I'm primairly looking for, because that has helped me tons in the past when it was possible for me to get it.

**DaEvil1** · July 15th, 2009, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Venger

One of my points been that the all look very flat - which is why I suggested working on form and value.
Let's not forget that Picasso had a very good understanding of all the basic principles (and then some). I suggest you look at his early works.
Even 5 - 10, 5 min drawings a day will help you - you don't have to pick boring subjects and you don't have to take them to finished as long as you get the process

Yes Picasso had excatly that. That was kind of why i brought him up (not suggesting that I got the same foundation as Picasso, but I want to approach that.)

Thanks! They do look too flat! It's much easier for me to see now that you mention it. That's what i'm looking for, telling me why my drawings need improvement, not just what I should study.

**Venger** · July 15th, 2009, 01:52 PM

Ok. Fair enough...
They look scribbly and unfinished - regardless of content, like you got bored of them and moved on to something else (scribbly isn't a style by the way

)
They look flat because there's no sense of form, value or light, (but that was discussed earlier) or distance - for instance, in 'tied up' you've used the same level of shading for the whole road, which flattens it - try to think things in the distance are faint (tone wise) and indistinct and things closer will be darker and more distinct.
If we brought the lady in the rear up to the scale of the dog walker she'd be huge!
You started to use your pencil strokes to define form in 'evil clown', but then you gave up on the legs and threw it all away on the ground (JMO). Try to be a bit more consistent.
You get out what you put in - so the more you study and practice the better you'll get.

**Dile_** · July 15th, 2009, 02:32 PM

yeah some good "general" advice already.. !

http://th07.deviantart.net/fs48/300W...by_DaEvil1.jpg what you got started on the upperbody/shirt here is pretty good.. but I think it shows the problem you have going on in most of those sketches...

The problem i see that I think you should work more on is consistency.. Consistency in form and light isn't really showing through in your work.

http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs24/300...by_DaEvil1.jpg

Like here.. The cheekbone / cheekline has this really dark outer form that suggest that no light is reflected to the viewer while the same forms on the jaw has a much lighter line.. try to simplify and think of forms and planes.. doing some simple portrait studies would help a lot.. bridgeman and hogarth has the faces broken down really early in their books and its easy to see how they simplify form and separate planes.

the same angles doesn't necessarily have to reflect the same amount of light ( depending on where the light is and how far away it is etc ) but consistency should still be visible in the work.. and as venger says.. "scribbly isn't a style" so if you want to define a "style" going for more consistency is key..

and when working with and in planes you will probably learn and its worth thinking of.. the direction of your strokes.. which will greatly help you separate areas and help defining 3d forms.. and if you really want to see if something is looking flat.. especially if you "just drew it".. is by either squinting your eyes or back away a bit from the piece.. if you can't read the pieces from a distance then there is something wrong with the overall look and form.. same if the values blend oddly when squinting.

and for studying.. you don't "necessarily" have to spend hours copying something to further understand and apply what they are doing.. it certainly helps though.. if you look at artists work or even life for reference or inspiration.. that should be enough to give you new and own ideas that you can apply while drawing.. it really works for the impatient types.. haha .. just be a constant observer.

**DaEvil1** · July 15th, 2009, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Venger

Ok. Fair enough...
They look scribbly and unfinished - regardless of content, like you got bored of them and moved on to something else (scribbly isn't a style by the way

)
They look flat because there's no sense of form, value or light, (but that was discussed earlier) or distance - for instance, in 'tied up' you've used the same level of shading for the whole road, which flattens it - try to think things in the distance are faint (tone wise) and indistinct and things closer will be darker and more distinct.
If we brought the lady in the rear up to the scale of the dog walker she'd be huge!
You started to use your pencil strokes to define form in 'evil clown', but then you gave up on the legs and threw it all away on the ground (JMO). Try to be a bit more consistent.
You get out what you put in - so the more you study and practice the better you'll get.

Scribbly is a style yes!!

As for the points you bring up, I agree. I'll think about them, and then try a new piece, and try to be vary of exactly what you've said, and come back then. Thanks for the helpfull feedback!

**DaEvil1** · July 15th, 2009, 02:44 PM