Violence in XinJiang (warning: graphic photosgraphs)

[Sepulverture]

It seems that unrest, and attempted revolution is becoming widespread as of late. First the incredibly emotional stories coming from Tehran, and now riots in XinJiang, one of China's western provinces that has a pretty turbulent history.

The first reports I heard were several hundred wounded and roughly 120 dead when local ethnicities clashed with Han Chinese because of the oppression that these minority ethnic groups typically endure.

I do live in China, but I don't live in the region where the troubles are, so I don't know exactly how oppressed these people are, but XinJiang has a history of rioting and protest, as well as "terrorism" (I'm hesitant to use that word).

According to the news that I've been hearing the whole thing started basically over the deaths of several Uyghur workers at a factory somewhere in western China after a fist fight broke out between a group of Han, and a group of Uyghurs.

I don't know what is true or false in this situation because a lot of the news that I've been attempting to read has been blocked, some photos did make their way to my computer though via a friend of mine, and I want to share them with you all.

I don't want anyone to think that this is any sort of attempt to draw attention away from the problems in Tehran, or meant for shock value, I just thought since I had some information on it, and no one seemed to be talking about it I wanted to put it up here for discussion.

These photos are graphic and not for the weak of constitution.

[Costau]

Thanks for posting this Sep. Here's a good article for anyone else who wants to get a run down about what is going on.

Mobs spread ethnic strife in western China

[alesoun]

Dear God, what were they using? Swords?

[Jason Manley]

omg thats horrible.


those in power will do anything to stay there. wow.

[Troubadour]

I would just like to point you all back to this thread http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=159654

The Angry Filipino explains things rather well from his POV about whats going on economy wise in China. I'd ask to please read his posts before commenting on this further and your view on China's economy etc

this is really nothing new on a basic being treated differently by the way you look, surely yes, this is horrible i dont like how things are handled so violently but in my opinion this just seems like any other time in history where violence was taken upon someone who looked different. I could be wrong, but im not saying this isnt unfortunate i'm only pointing out its nothing new?

[Sorknes]

As far as I understand, the Uighur and the people in Tibet share some of the same aspects of their problems.

The earlier East Turkmenistan (not sure if that's the right English name for it) is more related the muslim and Middle East than China historically, and the problems there for the Uighurs has come more and more into our news, especially after some Uighurs got prizes and decorations for certain things over here, which didn't go well with the Chinese since they are deemed "terrorists". Uighurs has also become a minority in their own region since there's a lot of Han Chinese that's moved in.

As it's (of course) in a region wich has a kind of lockdown and China is ever so careful about what to let out, it's kind of hard to know what's real and what's not, it's too easy to label something "propaganda" or "terrorism" for both sides.

These pictures are horrible though, and we've seen more like it coming through. Now there's protests about the ones already in prison, and (once again) we're waiting for hearing news about what happens with whoever ended up there, mostly Uighur men from what I understand.

And, the streets has also been taken by Han Chinese after rumours of Uighurs killing them widely, stories about families and children killed by Uighurs, etc, (and I have no idea how to find out what's for real and not), so it's not only the police/gov against Uighurs, they're also trying to separate Han and Uighurs taking to the streets bashing each other. I have no idea if these pictures are after the officials went through a riot or the two groups clashing together?

[alesoun]

I hate politics. I maybe come across as political, because I'm posting on two political threads, but, I agree with Terry Pratchett. Anybody who enters politics should have all personal priviledges withdrawn for their term of office. Can't remember the book, but he said they should be jailed.

[Jazz]

I know this is strange to say because the situation is very dire, but one of those pictures looks familiar to me. I think I saw it a while ago, maybe a couple months. Admitting to looking in rotten.com, http://poetry.rotten.com/knife-fight/index1.html

Where is this picture from? Is this unrelated, or is this from happenings a couple months ago?

[Sepulverture]

JazzW - I can't see the link that you posted there, blocked, but it's a possibility that it came from elsewhere.

I am rather ashamed to have posted these pictures when I did, because I found out that the person who sent these pictures to me did so out of totally racist motives against the Uyghurs, trying to portray them as bloodthirsty ruthless murderers. Regardless, the pictures are for the most part legitimate I believe and show a lot of things from both sides. I wish I had links to provide, but anything I can get here is blocked unless it's in support of the Han Chinese saturation of the area.

I just want to point out that I am not anti-Han, and I'm not pushing any agenda here. I have Xinjiangee friends, and my girlfriend, who I live with is Han, and her and I talked about this openly(I was really disappointed by her feelings on the topic, but personal opinion doesn't have any place here).

I don't have any agenda to push here, I just want to let people know what's going on here because it came as a shock to me when I saw these, and started talking to people to try to get a clearer picture of what's going on.

Ale - They aren't using swords, as far as I know, however one of the things that Han Chinese resent about the Xinjiangees is that the government gave them a cultural concession where they can carry large knives, according to their cultural traditions.

[Duq]

Well the news what we got so far is about that accident. Alot of tension surrounding the minorities. Leading to loads of Han Chinese going on the street armed with wooden stickes and iron pipes. And the Uighurs being very happy that the military finally arrived to protect them.

[dcorc]

A tineye.com search of the dead body with the large sword injuries to neck and back (the last photo in the post) shows that it is over a year old.

- and the one with the knife-slashes goes back at least as far as 2006.

Dave

[Jazz]

Yeah, the one I linked to was the guy with knife slashes on his back. It's good that you found out earlier rather than later about the pictures though, Sep. I didn't want you getting in hot water about the false ones.

Anyway, it's still a harsh reality, and I hear about some things going on from the radio. So disheartening, and I wish I could say more about it.

[the ANGRY filipino]

"I am rather ashamed to have posted these pictures when I did, because I found out that the person who sent these pictures to me did so out of totally racist motives against the Uyghurs, trying to portray them as bloodthirsty ruthless murderers."

Sep, if that was your acquaintances intention, to show the Uighurs as such, he failed miserably, since a majority of the bloodied victims in the pictures you posted ARE the Uighurs. ( fyi, Uighurs look middle eastern)
From the Uighurs point of view, the massive numbers of Han chinese that the Chinese Government entices to flow into Uighur homeland has all but made them a minority on a land that was once dominated by their society. Plus the fact that most businesses in their area are owned by Han, and the discrimination they face because of how they look, because of their islamic faith ( remember, most modern chinese don't give a shit about religion, that was one of the first things to go under communism), plus any protests they make against such treatment is quickly labelled as terrorism...well, the Uighurs do have a lot of issues to be heard on...too bad it came to this point and that they will probably never be heard by the chinese anyway.

To Jason Manley: This is not about a government against the people, it's about 2 cultures clashing. It's about a small group of people against a MASSIVE group of another people. Some things that happen in china can be attributed to the government, definitely, but not everything. In a world that is so pc, it is sometimes hard to say what must be said, that years of communist propaganda has in fact brainwashed the majority of the present generation of modern china.
The western trend of blaming everything that happens in China on the Chinese government is a mistaken , albeit convenient simplification of things.
In a nation with a population as huge as theirs, Mob mentality is something that occurs very frequently.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090708/...china_xinjiang
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...res-again.html


To everyone:I am willing to bet that if you ask any chinese you know ( in china or abroad) chances are most of them will have viewpoints on this issue that would sadden you.

To Sorkness: i think it's "east turkestan" but the chinese renamed it "xinjiang" or new land/hope...

Just to make it clear, I am not anti chinese. I am half chinese myself. I just call it as I see it. There are a lot of cool people in China, like anywhere else.
But the thing I hope people putside of China understand is this:
The Chinese people are VERY patriotic. And they always take care of their own. No matter where they are in the world.
They may fight amongst themselves but when an outsider (ie..non chinese, one who doesn't look chinese etc..) is perceived as "offending the chinese people", they band together quicker than super glue. And woe be it to anyone who is foolisg enough to "offend the chinese people".
The problem is, it only takes one person to spread something about the Uighurs and it spreads like wildfire...with tragic consequences for both sides.
Vastly different from westerners who always seem to bitch and gripe about their own countries.

[the ANGRY filipino]

Well the news what we got so far is about that accident. Alot of tension surrounding the minorities. Leading to loads of Han Chinese going on the street armed with wooden stickes and iron pipes. And the Uighurs being very happy that the military finally arrived to protect them.

A complete and utter fallacy. Since the troops sent over were mostly Han as well. Meant to intimidate the Uighurs rather than to protect them.

[Sepulverture]

T.A.F. - Thanks for the breakdown, a lot of what you said is a lot of what I suspected. Lately I've been reading a few books that give a good condensed history of China, and tries to explain a lot of the racial tensions that exist here, and what you said seems to jive pretty well with what I've been reading in these books.

I also thought that a lot of the wounded in the pictures looked Xinjiangee, but I didn't want to guess as to whether or not they really were. The person who sent me these pictures admitted rather openly to her intentions with them, but as you pointed out failed rather miserably in my opinion, but I can only imagine how enraged her Han friends were at the prospect of one of Chinas 5(6?) officially recognized minorities engaging in open rebellion against them.

Knowing the way that China works with regards to these sort of events, it is a rather dim hope, but I hope that some of the Chinese in power or with influence will begin to wake up and realize that protesting, rioting, and rebellion put on by some of the minority groups is meant to be sending a message about the way they are viewed and treated in their own lands. I also hope that all this can see a peaceful conclusion, but again knowing the way that the Chinese typically treat this sort of thing, it's going to end up with a major lock down of the area, and political interest groups spreading propaganda to further rally the Han Chinese in opposition to the terrorist-like western-China Muslims.

Also; Thanks everyone who has posted so far for discussing this reasonably. I hope to see more people talking reasonably about what they know, and what they've heard to help clarify the situation.

[Shinn]

[Sepulverture]

Wow. You're a fucking douche bag.

[Hyskoa]

Not wanting to be a part of something makes one a douche bag? Since when?
It just means we have no personal stake in something and that we'd better be more concerned about things that affect us personally.

[the ANGRY filipino]

I think what is upsetting is that one has the gall to post something so trivial as that after a series of disturbing images that happened to REAL people.

Hyskoa, the thing is, if people like you don't care about these things, there isn't any need to post in here at all.

People can be so selfish at times....

[corky13]

Hmmm...if the pictures of the knife injuries are older than a year why are they in this thread ?

[the ANGRY filipino]

Not all the knife injury pics are older than a year....plus this whole issue with the Uighers and the Chinese goes back years as well.
Please keep in mind that these pictures where sent to Sep by his racist friend in an attempt to hurt the Uighurs image. If one of the pictures is an old one and used to misrepresent the issue, then that says a lot on how low some people will go in discriminating against some minorities.

[corky13]

ah , okay , now I understand it. Thanks for clarifying.

[Sepulverture]

Not wanting to get involved in a conversation doesn't make anyone a douche bag. What does however, is trivializing the whole conversation with stupid attention grabs.

If you don't want to post, or don't want to get involved then click the back button and move on.

I thought about removing the pictures that were shown to actually not be related to the topic at hand, but decided to leave them just to keep the established context for some of the comments already made.

Finally via cnn I got to read a full news article about the whole thing, and it seems that the whole thing is related to an incident earlier this week where local Han took to the streets with pipes and bats as dcorc pointed out, but according to the article and again conversations with Chinese friends here it was about Han Chinese resentment of the Uyghurs, claiming that they had committed some serious crimes and need to be punished, the Uyghurs responded in the way that people who feel oppressed and victimized tend to, and the military police responded with force. Facebook, however, seems to be blocked as of Friday or Saturday. Scenario sounds vaguely familiar.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/as...urs/index.html

[alesoun]

Thanks for posting, Sep. You did it in good faith. There's a lot of unrest just now, in Egypt, on the Gaza strip, in Israel and Africa. I see it when I'm checking on Iran for the Big Bow thread, it's bewildering to me. You can only ever report what you see or read or hear.

There's never any guarantee that you're seeing the whole picture, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't comment and check it out. Thanks.

[Sepulverture]

Thanks Ale for the understanding. I got some different opinions and perspectives from posting this, even if I wasn't able to directly cite sources or anything like that, and I got some good information as well, so I'm glad I did post.