"Ascesion of Gorromah" - Warning: Highly Intricated Pencil Work

[chauncey]

As Griever stated above, you've got to have a realistic approach in understanding your subject matter before you try to bend it into something you'd call stylized. You've got to understand what it SHOULD look like before you turn it into something else entirely. As far as composition and design you're pushing for; it's very eclectic, if not messy. It lacks a comfortable flow to connect each element of the design which makes it feel chaotic. Not to mention, your technique of penciling/rendering reinforces this with strokes going every which way, lacking rhyme or reason in not using the direction or depth of a stroke to play on the shape of an object.

Is that what you were wanting? :p

thanks for the critique, but it seems like you have a fixation of what a painting should look like which contradicts with the statement I am trying to make. The subject matter and title hints at what style is appropriate. Would this painting make sense if it had rhyme or reasonable strokes and a comfortable flow? whether you realize it, that man is being hurt. the narrative is tense if not bordering horror. Would it make much sense for me to use matisse line quality and rythnms? I thought so....

I think the problem with some of ya'll is that you are so accustomed to that sleak artificiality of design and composition of the people of CA that you allow that artificial sleakness to bleed over into your personal aesthetic. why CA artists aren't as prominet. Because they CAN"T design. My line quality reads what i want. Plus, besides that, the fact that this painting was made with graphite stick tells why theres coarseness to the texture.

Also....do people have a understanding of psychological flow. that should lead to why the painting looks how it does.

[Quike Garcia]

but iam not dali

Of course not.. Even Dalí was not Dalí for more than 30 years... And he was able to do what he did only because he had a million hours of classical study, a brilliant mind and the right and precise time and place (Residencia de Estudiantes, in Madrid, along with Garcia Lorca and Luis Buñuel, among many other spanish vanguardists, a real cradle of genius)

Picasso himself said that it took him 20 years to paint like a master and 40 years to paint like a kid, so don't even think that you're ready to take this step into de-contructivism of reality and get back to the basics: Anatomy, Values, Figure and Life Drawing. Then the advanced subjects like harmony and composition, and then you can take this step you want to take so soon.

Now, apart from that rant, I'll critique your work here in the terms you're asking for:

The composition is weak, there's no centre, no focal point. All the lines in the piece are erratical, and when they point somewhere, they point out of the drawing.

The linework is messy at some points, and some shades show that you had no patience and just pressed the whole lead of your pencil against your paper. You have lot's of eyes in the composition, and you misuse them. Instead of them leading somewhere, they get you even more lost..

Dalí, Picasso, Monet, Magritte,.. all of them studied the paintings from Rubens, Velazquez, Goya, Rembrandt, El Greco, ... Maybe you should start doing the same before..

[tobbA]

Any one can make a scribble on a paper and say it's an expression of their inner desires. It probably is too, in a way. Doesn't really make it a good picture tho...

"whether you realize it, that man is being hurt. the narrative is tense if not bordering horror. Would it make much sense for me to use matisse line quality and rythnms? I thought so...."

Just because you tell yourself the picture express this message it doesn't mean it does. If nobody else sees it or can appreciate it it doesn't matter. It's like writing a book in jibberish and then get mad at others for not understanding the deep underlying messages within the story...

Also, your picture includes people yet it's clearly evident you don't know how to draw those. Lack of knowledge does not equal artistic expression whether you claim it's 'intentional' or not.

[chauncey]

Of course not.. Even Dalí was not Dalí for more than 30 years... And he was able to do what he did only because he had a million hours of classical study, a brilliant mind and the right and precise time and place (Residencia de Estudiantes, in Madrid, along with Garcia Lorca and Luis Buñuel, among many other spanish vanguardists, a real cradle of genius)

Picasso himself said that it took him 20 years to paint like a master and 40 years to paint like a kid, so don't even think that you're ready to take this step into de-contructivism of reality and get back to the basics: Anatomy, Values, Figure and Life Drawing. Then the advanced subjects like harmony and composition, and then you can take this step you want to take so soon.

Now, apart from that rant, I'll critique your work here in the terms you're asking for:

The composition is weak, there's no centre, no focal point. All the lines in the piece are erratical, and when they point somewhere, they point out of the drawing.

The linework is messy at some points, and some shades show that you had no patience and just pressed the whole lead of your pencil against your paper. You have lot's of eyes in the composition, and you misuse them. Instead of them leading somewhere, they get you even more lost..

Dalí, Picasso, Monet, Magritte,.. all of them studied the paintings from Rubens, Velazquez, Goya, Rembrandt, El Greco, ... Maybe you should start doing the same before..

advice taken but like i said. i'd rather not post my studies in the critique forum. If you are under the impression that i don't study you must not have followed the forum. But treating me like a amatuer by tone when I have shown that i am adept at these things is futile. i am not saying classical study is pointless. but if you know the classics you know that they used projectors, graphs and also sorts of tools plus references. lets know context. for this painting i used nothing but a mechanical pencil and graphite stick ...hell i barely used an eraser. i know that makes this piece infinitely better in its complete rawness. Cool, technicality could be better. HOwever i Did go to art school and there i realized everybody is not going to draw like the classics. And when you learn where you actually stand, things become clearer. I create art for its own sake. I could give a fck if its not accurate because quite frankly i didnt want to site down and follow the steps to create a masterpiece.

None of ya'll are creating masterpieces so why should i.


my shit is gritty. messy has too negative a connotation. gritty.

[Quike Garcia]

my shit is gritty. messy has too negative a connotation. gritty.

No sir.. Messy.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=105092 This is gritty

[chauncey]

in addition... any joe schmoe off the side of the street would love this painting. why not reinforce what i did right than shit on your high horse like this drawing is wack. fuk, most of ya'll try 10 times as hard as me and can;t draw as ill. this shit took me five hours on 12x14.

[chauncey]

No sir.. Messy.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=105092 This is gritty

not impressed....seriously.

[ShroudStar]

Anatomy study is exceedingly overrated. to me, SEEING is far more important or else references will not even help. I can see, so it is mute to tell me to master anatomy because quite frankly I am at the point where I can flesh it out with modest exactitude with a reference. This is because I can see. Telling people to study does little help if they can not SEE.

Also, you contradicted yourself. First you said the masters mastered anatomy, then you said even professionals use references for more accuracy due to lack of memory. Check yourself.

What is important is intent however. If i am not intending for accuracy, please don't criqitue it. I was wrong by telling Pezzle to fuck off but I didn't like the implications of Pezzle's comments.

Whatever. See you in 20 years down the line still trying to make it with that attitude. Have fun.

[NeecHMonkeY]

in addition... any joe schmoe off the side of the street would love this painting. why not reinforce what i did right than shit on your high horse like this drawing is wack. fuk, most of ya'll try 10 times as hard as me and can;t draw as ill. this shit took me five hours on 12x14.

This right here is where your biggest problem is - you don't understand (or at least can't be honest with yourself) about where your skill actually lies.

It's pretty obvious that you're not actually looking for critiques or advice because you've been given plenty of both in this forum ever since you got here (I looked back through your past threads) and you haven't taken any of it in and continue to believe that 'your shit don't stink'.

You only wish to be told what a genius you are and that being the case, this really is not the place for you - the sycophancy at DeviantArt might be more to your liking.

You don't deserve the attention that you've been given on these forums. All you have done is wasted people's time with your refusal to take a long hard look at yourself and your work and this bullshit attitude is preventing you and your art from maturing.

[chauncey]

Whatever. See you in 20 years down the line still trying to make it with that attitude. Have fun.

make what?

[chauncey]

This right here is where your biggest problem is - you don't understand (or at least can't be honest with yourself) about where your skill actually lies.

It's pretty obvious that you're not actually looking for critiques or advice because you've been given plenty of both in this forum ever since you got here (I looked back through your past threads) and you haven't taken any of it in and continue to believe that 'your shit don't stink'.

You only wish to be told what a genius you are and that being the case, this really is not the place for you - the sycophancy at DeviantArt might be more to your liking.

You don't deserve the attention that you've been given on these forums. All you have done is wasted people's time with your refusal to take a long hard look at yourself and your work and this bullshit attitude is preventing you and your art from maturing.

i'm on DA.

[chauncey]

Any one can make a scribble on a paper and say it's an expression of their inner desires...

and this is any old scribble?



k.

[Griever]

I was hoping to god noone would bump this childish farse. Chauncey never had any intention of taking crit, as he has done nothing but make excuses each time someone has tried to help. Sage goes in every field.

Can we get a mod to close this or something please? It's decended into a flamewar about the meaning and definition of art and the importance of each factor, despite the site URL pretty much summing up the aim here.

EDIT: I suggest you don't grace this arrogant idiot with further response, but if anyone would like to join me in reporting him, that would be an excellent effort toward preserving the tone and caliber of CA.com.

[chauncey]

honestly you people know nothing of human psychology whatsoever. If my sketch is so amatuerish, why the flame? WHy are you people getting so worked up over something on the internet? If it was wack, why the backlash?


that being said. I ask for a critique of design which is separate from what i got which was a spiel about the importance of anatomical study. You people are the ones pouring feul on the fire. Just give me my critique which relates to the title and my motiviaton. I could care a less for some spiel on how my humans are not looking right.

[kjdawson80]

honestly you people know nothing of human psychology whatsoever. If my sketch is so amatuerish, why the flame? WHy are you people getting so worked up over something on the internet? If it was wack, why the backlash?


that being said. I ask for a critique of design which is separate from what i got which was a spiel about the importance of anatomical study. You people are the ones pouring feul on the fire. Just give me my critique which relates to the title and my motiviaton. I could care a less for some spiel on how my humans are not looking right.

"Why the flame?" The flame is because you're being rude to people who tried to help you out of the kindness of their hearts, using crude language and insults after they FINALLY call you out on being rude and condescending to them. Classy.

As for your requested critique, I'm pretty sure you got a whole bunch of critiques about everything you asked for, not just anatomical study.

That being said, if everyone on CA is all about anatomy, using grids, making "fake" art for money, etc etc, and you're looking for people to discuss your ideas of design, I'd suggest finding a different place to ask for help from. Clearly no one here can give you what you're looking for :/

[chauncey]

I was hoping to god noone would bump this childish farse. Chauncey never had any intention of taking crit, as he has done nothing but make excuses each time someone has tried to help. Sage goes in every field.

Can we get a mod to close this or something please? It's decended into a flamewar about the meaning and definition of art and the importance of each factor, despite the site URL pretty much summing up the aim here.

EDIT: I suggest you don't grace this arrogant idiot with further response, but if anyone would like to join me in reporting him, that would be an excellent effort toward preserving the tone and caliber of CA.com.

re read the thread. people edged me on. if i get banned because I was actting civil and someone starts to patronize me and make jokes about my art then I curse well excuse me.

anyway, you people don't know how to read to internet. it is a cold medium.

[Dusty]

fuck you

Wow.
If there was ever a question that you deserve what you are getting, this is the proof right here.

but don't tell me to do these things when i am seeking advice on design.

At this point, I don't know that anyone cares what you are seeking advice on as you haven't given anyone a reason to respect you or your artwork. The fact that anyone replied to you with a legitimate critique is truly a sad thing. Seriously, there are a lot of other artists on this site who are significantly more open to critiques and far more deserving. Personally, I don't care if you get frustrated or not. Your insults and tunnel vision have made me regret giving you any kind of compliment whatsoever.

You don't deserve compliments and you don't deserve critique of any sort.

[chauncey]

That being said, if everyone on CA is all about anatomy, using grids, making "fake" art for money, etc etc, and you're looking for people to discuss your ideas of design, I'd suggest finding a different place to ask for help from. Clearly no one here can give you what you're looking for :/

maybe i'll go to deviant art.

[chauncey]

Wow.
If there was ever a question that you deserve what you are getting, this is the proof right here.

You are on the wrong site, Chauncey.

yt takes the internet too seriously.

[Dusty]

yt takes the internet too seriously.

No, I don't. But I do take this site, my art, and the art of others seriously.
Clearly, you are only interested in antagonizing and pulling frustration out of people to the point of them wall-of-texting you.

That's called a troll, and if there is one thing that I will give you a positive critique on, it's that. You are a DAMN fine troll.

[Pezz]

That's called a troll, and if there is one thing that I will give you a positive critique on, it's that. You are a DAMN fine troll.

I know, I was somewhat amused for a while.

[kjdawson80]

maybe i'll go to deviant art.

Actually, I wasn't going to be one of the people who was going to tell you to go to DeviantArt. A) you're already on there, B) I'm already on there, and C) there are a lot of artists that I like on DeviantArt as well, and they work in the industry that I'm most interested in. So while DA isn't the best place for crits, I rather like the site.

When I suggested you find a place that will give you the critiques/information you are looking for, I really meant it - a place more suited for what you're trying to get across in your artwork. Unfortunately, I don't know of any place off hand, since my current focus is more on concept art/comic art. WetCanvas might be a place that could help, or at least have a few links to sites that may suit your needs.

[vidar_77]

I'm aware I'm completely new here and all but why isn't this guy banned yet or this post locked??

My crit is its an interesting piece and looks like your trying to look like or be compared to Dali. There are a number of aspects that need work though.
-The 'ufo' in the top conrner, that a ufo or a chandiler thing? I can't tell because its antenea is connected to the edge of the picture.
-The main center characaters face is beyond distorted to really see what expression its making.
-The building behind that main character is square head on, making it look kind of cheap IMO because it looks like the prespective should have some kind of downwardish angle.

All in all its confusing and not that great.

As for your treatment of the rest of these people in this forum, drop the attitude, learn to take some advice, get back to becoming a better artist because you need some work.

I recommend someone lock this post and ban this guy because I really hope this guy is actually trolling the forum and not like this in real life.

[tobbA]

If i get banned because I was actting civil and someone starts to patronize me and make jokes about my art then I curse well excuse me.

Trollish behavior to accuse others of the things you yourself did... Don't you think?

And no I never said your piece was any old scribble but have fun thinking i did

[zedkhov]

I didn't say i don't want to learn. I just saying, offer me something that can help. Not just canned statements to justify your lack of competence in design. I am trying to become a better artist, not draftsman. I am already a good draftsman.

Quoted for emphasis...on how pretentious you are.

[AmbrMerlinus]

From the devART thread...

"You have some talent but it seems you invest a lot of time in cartoons. Not my style. I suggest you dabble with tradition painting or even graffiti. Be more eclectic."

HAH. Oh, wow. So when YOU tell someone to change their style, it's good advice. But when someone tells YOU to change your style, suddenly they're out of line?

Man, I haven't had this much fun since Insect Battle.

[Elwell]

Chauncey is taking a mandatory two-month leave of absence to work on his social skills.
We'll see what happens in July.