The Bakery (CCThrom, Blackcherry, Arttorney)

[CCThrom]

Hope you all had a nice break! We had a great weekend, but were very busy and I haven't had much time to think about this... still, our team seems to be converging here, so let's look at where we're at.

Overall premise:
We're in an alternate-technology history and we seem to be heading into early aviation territory. As an American, I naturally tend to think about the Wright brothers, WW1 era dogfights and barnstormers, Amelia Earhart, the age of zeppelins, etc. Of course, lot of this stuff is significantly later than turn-of-the-century... but since we're in steampunk fantasy-land, we can imagine an alternate history where aviation and heavy mechanization were developed much earlier. Perhaps lighter-than-air craft and clockwork automata were realized on a larger scale earlier on?

Arttorney's Boxer Rebellion influenced characters fit in perfectly well, particularly if we bring a bit more of an Asian or European Colonial spin to this.

The characters so far... feel free to add words as appropriate.

The Hero: So far we've got a strong young woman, a young captain or perhaps even an officer... an aviator, think "Amelia Earhart".

The Protector: A strong and burly man... perhaps an ex-prizefighter or similar? Maybe he's a relative or legal guardian?

The Shadow: A scruffier, surly, male version of the hero... a guy that wants to be important and in on whatever's going on, but also a classic underachiever.

The Technician: A smaller, fairly young woman... I was thinking cheerful and unpretentious... kinda geeky but caring. My version is a little overweight.

The Sage: My idea to blend him into the group is that he's a Colonial-era English-educated mystic. Think Jules Verne's "Captain Nemo". Perhaps he's a true mystic as in "The Shadow" who feels that whatever the group is doing is spiritually important... or perhaps he's a charlatan who sees some profit in it. Blackcherry's Sage is moving in a Mr. Miyagi or Yoda-ish direction, which is fine by me.

The Rabble Rouser: Actually, my version and Blackcherry's version are not that far apart. I thought of him also as being a bit of a flashy, dramatic showoff. I was thinking a bit more of an academic, artistic radical... and maybe Blackcherry is thinking more along the lines of a gambler and showman... but really, we're pretty close.

So again, feel free to add words to this... maybe we can build up a sort of word-description version of the mood board?

[arttorney]

The Hero: So far we've got a strong young woman, a young captain or perhaps even an officer... an aviator, think "Amelia Earhart". As mentioned, we may want to do the dark side look at her as well as the light side. Still, in her aviator outfit she could look both ways at the same time. Perhaps she has a pearl handled revolver on her hip and looks like she knows how to use it.

The Protector: A strong and burly man... perhaps an ex-prizefighter or similar? Maybe he's a relative or legal guardian? Good point. If he kind of found the Hero in a memory compromized state, and he didn't just steal her airship or whatever she has, then either: 1. he is a really nice guy, 2. he is a relative/guardian/trustee, or 3. the Shadow has enough on the ball to stand up to him somehow. The middle way is the way that does not detract from Protector's toughness.

The Shadow: A scruffier, surly, male version of the hero... a guy that wants to be important and in on whatever's going on, but also a classic underachiever. I think we are doing great on this guy. How does he disappear for time periods without getting left behind by the aviators? He probably has friends or resources on the side. Does he have some way to contact those guys, e.g. a little helioscope or carrier pigeons?

The Technician: A smaller, fairly young woman... I was thinking cheerful and unpretentious... kinda geeky but caring. My version is a little overweight. I think we can put her in a pretty cool context if we make a little block and tackle airship rigging she is working on or something to that effect. (Maybe like the stuff that is holding a major airship gondola onto the gas bag above, though it would also have a retro nautical rigging feel to it. I'm not talking about rendering the whole ship or anything but perhaps just a gunwale and bit of rigging that she is working on.)

The Sage: My idea to blend him into the group is that he's a Colonial-era English-educated mystic. Think Jules Verne's "Captain Nemo". Perhaps he's a true mystic as in "The Shadow" who feels that whatever the group is doing is spiritually important... or perhaps he's a charlatan who sees some profit in it. Blackcherry's Sage is moving in a Mr. Miyagi or Yoda-ish direction, which is fine by me. This is the easiest place to work in an Asian character, unless they all are Asian. The Boxer Rebellion was a xenophobic movement, but not all the Chinese felt uniformly since some had converted to Christianity (and then there were the other areas of european colonialism in southeast asia).

The Rabble Rouser: Actually, my version and Blackcherry's version are not that far apart. I thought of him also as being a bit of a flashy, dramatic showoff. I was thinking a bit more of an academic, artistic radical... and maybe Blackcherry is thinking more along the lines of a gambler and showman... but really, we're pretty close. I think they can be reconciled. This guy has some ability to charm, but also apparently rubs some people the wrong way. A guy with skill at gambling and radical political beliefs could probably do both of those things by turns. What's his game? Whist? Faro? Running a praying mantis fighting ring with the Sage?

[CCThrom]

The Hero: So far we've got a strong young woman, a young captain or perhaps even an officer... an aviator, think "Amelia Earhart". As mentioned, we may want to do the dark side look at her as well as the light side. Still, in her aviator outfit she could look both ways at the same time. Perhaps she has a pearl handled revolver on her hip and looks like she knows how to use it. Yeah, she should definitely be armed... I don't think the "dark version" needs to look physically different, this can be done more by expression and the look in her eyes.

The Protector: A strong and burly man... perhaps an ex-prizefighter or similar? Maybe he's a relative or legal guardian? Good point. If he kind of found the Hero in a memory compromized state, and he didn't just steal her airship or whatever she has, then either: 1. he is a really nice guy, 2. he is a relative/guardian/trustee, or 3. the Shadow has enough on the ball to stand up to him somehow. The middle way is the way that does not detract from Protector's toughness. The only problem is that would mean he's connected to the Hero "from before" so maybe that wouldn't work. I'm thinking he's naive and simple, a guy that "could've been a contendah" and a good person that really doesn't have the mind to try and take over the show... maybe a few too many blows to the head or a manager that double-crossed him... maybe he met the Hero in a VA ward or something like that. Now he sees the Hero and the quest as a way to grab onto the glory that he missed.

The Shadow: A scruffier, surly, male version of the hero... a guy that wants to be important and in on whatever's going on, but also a classic underachiever. I think we are doing great on this guy. How does he disappear for time periods without getting left behind by the aviators? He probably has friends or resources on the side. Does he have some way to contact those guys, e.g. a little helioscope or carrier pigeons? I thought of the airship as having 2 small reconnaissance/combat planes attached to it (like the "skiff" from "Treasure Planet"). The Hero flies one and the Shadow flies the other. from time to time, he can just take off. Or maybe he just disappears whenever they're "in port"?

The Technician: A smaller, fairly young woman... I was thinking cheerful and unpretentious... kinda geeky but caring. My version is a little overweight. I think we can put her in a pretty cool context if we make a little block and tackle airship rigging she is working on or something to that effect. (Maybe like the stuff that is holding a major airship gondola onto the gas bag above, though it would also have a retro nautical rigging feel to it. I'm not talking about rendering the whole ship or anything but perhaps just a gunwale and bit of rigging that she is working on.) Yeah, that's very much what I was thinking... maybe in addition, this airship has a complicated internal steam boiler system for hot air and propulsion?

The Sage: My idea to blend him into the group is that he's a Colonial-era English-educated mystic. Think Jules Verne's "Captain Nemo". Perhaps he's a true mystic as in "The Shadow" who feels that whatever the group is doing is spiritually important... or perhaps he's a charlatan who sees some profit in it. Blackcherry's Sage is moving in a Mr. Miyagi or Yoda-ish direction, which is fine by me. This is the easiest place to work in an Asian character, unless they all are Asian. The Boxer Rebellion was a xenophobic movement, but not all the Chinese felt uniformly since some had converted to Christianity (and then there were the other areas of european colonialism in southeast asia). If we go with this idea, ALL the characters would be Asian... it's an interesting thought, but not one I would be real comfortable with... only because we would be working with a culture and history I know little about.

The Rabble Rouser: Actually, my version and Blackcherry's version are not that far apart. I thought of him also as being a bit of a flashy, dramatic showoff. I was thinking a bit more of an academic, artistic radical... and maybe Blackcherry is thinking more along the lines of a gambler and showman... but really, we're pretty close. I think they can be reconciled. This guy has some ability to charm, but also apparently rubs some people the wrong way. A guy with skill at gambling and radical political beliefs could probably do both of those things by turns. What's his game? Whist? Faro? Running a praying mantis fighting ring with the Sage? Good ideas! I was thinking along the lines of a card sharp... cards or dice are easy to travel with. Maybe he's a huckster that carries loaded dice, sells memberships to bogus political groups, or collects for "local charities".

[arttorney]

The Hero: So far we've got a strong young woman, a young captain or perhaps even an officer... an aviator, think "Amelia Earhart". As mentioned, we may want to do the dark side look at her as well as the light side. Still, in her aviator outfit she could look both ways at the same time. Perhaps she has a pearl handled revolver on her hip and looks like she knows how to use it. Yeah, she should definitely be armed... I don't think the "dark version" needs to look physically different, this can be done more by expression and the look in her eyes.I'm ready to stand pat here.

The Protector: A strong and burly man... perhaps an ex-prizefighter or similar? Maybe he's a relative or legal guardian? Good point. If he kind of found the Hero in a memory compromized state, and he didn't just steal her airship or whatever she has, then either: 1. he is a really nice guy, 2. he is a relative/guardian/trustee, or 3. the Shadow has enough on the ball to stand up to him somehow. The middle way is the way that does not detract from Protector's toughness. The only problem is that would mean he's connected to the Hero "from before" so maybe that wouldn't work. I'm thinking he's naive and simple, a guy that "could've been a contendah" and a good person that really doesn't have the mind to try and take over the show... maybe a few too many blows to the head or a manager that double-crossed him... maybe he met the Hero in a VA ward or something like that. Now he sees the Hero and the quest as a way to grab onto the glory that he missed.True. From what I've seen in court, if this guy has any official relationship with Hero and he doesn't like anybody else in the group, he'll just use the court system to kick them out of Hero's life. The brief tends to imply that he is a really nice guy to the Hero, but not necessarily so to everybody. Maybe he's got a bit of Hero worship going on. As you say, this group is his last big chance chance to do something other than be a bartender.

The Shadow: A scruffier, surly, male version of the hero... a guy that wants to be important and in on whatever's going on, but also a classic underachiever. I think we are doing great on this guy. How does he disappear for time periods without getting left behind by the aviators? He probably has friends or resources on the side. Does he have some way to contact those guys, e.g. a little helioscope or carrier pigeons? I thought of the airship as having 2 small reconnaissance/combat planes attached to it (like the "skiff" from "Treasure Planet"). The Hero flies one and the Shadow flies the other. from time to time, he can just take off. Or maybe he just disappears whenever they're "in port"? Or both. I basically think we know what we will do for this guy.

The Technician: A smaller, fairly young woman... I was thinking cheerful and unpretentious... kinda geeky but caring. My version is a little overweight. I think we can put her in a pretty cool context if we make a little block and tackle airship rigging she is working on or something to that effect. (Maybe like the stuff that is holding a major airship gondola onto the gas bag above, though it would also have a retro nautical rigging feel to it. I'm not talking about rendering the whole ship or anything but perhaps just a gunwale and bit of rigging that she is working on.) Yeah, that's very much what I was thinking... maybe in addition, this airship has a complicated internal steam boiler system for hot air and propulsion? ready to stand pat on this one. We can probably stick her in the boiler room and put somebody else out on deck for flavor.

The Sage: My idea to blend him into the group is that he's a Colonial-era English-educated mystic. Think Jules Verne's "Captain Nemo". Perhaps he's a true mystic as in "The Shadow" who feels that whatever the group is doing is spiritually important... or perhaps he's a charlatan who sees some profit in it. Blackcherry's Sage is moving in a Mr. Miyagi or Yoda-ish direction, which is fine by me. This is the easiest place to work in an Asian character, unless they all are Asian. The Boxer Rebellion was a xenophobic movement, but not all the Chinese felt uniformly since some had converted to Christianity (and then there were the other areas of european colonialism in southeast asia). If we go with this idea, ALL the characters would be Asian... it's an interesting thought, but not one I would be real comfortable with... only because we would be working with a culture and history I know little about.I think the all asian idea would be very difficult to pull off in this time frame, e.g. 2 1/2 weeks. Other people are kind of working on one or more characters in that vein. The airship idea seems to be our core direction.

The Rabble Rouser: Actually, my version and Blackcherry's version are not that far apart. I thought of him also as being a bit of a flashy, dramatic showoff. I was thinking a bit more of an academic, artistic radical... and maybe Blackcherry is thinking more along the lines of a gambler and showman... but really, we're pretty close. I think they can be reconciled. This guy has some ability to charm, but also apparently rubs some people the wrong way. A guy with skill at gambling and radical political beliefs could probably do both of those things by turns. What's his game? Whist? Faro? Running a praying mantis fighting ring with the Sage? Good ideas! I was thinking along the lines of a card sharp... cards or dice are easy to travel with. Maybe he's a huckster that carries loaded dice, sells memberships to bogus political groups, or collects for "local charities". Ha Ha! I am seeing Al Pacino in a white suit saying "I, Tony Montana, am political refugee. I working in an anti-Castro group. I get a lot of political donations." Seriously though, as between cards or dice, I think the backs of cards would give a better chance to put design motifs into the image. Dice are dice, and other than that they don't pack much eye candy potential.

Edit about Logistics: We will also have to nail down ASAP what everybody is going to do. We only have a couple of weeks now so it is probably about time to start the finals.

[blackcherry]

Yikes, I missed page 2 when I checked earlier today and yesterday. I was beginning to think no one had posted and now I've realised it was me being dumb, sorry!

I've read through what you've both wrote so I'll just add my views then I think we need to lay down who's going to do what and start getting the final drawings of the characters on the go.

Also any comments on my character designs? as I'm not sure what you guys thought of them so I can get an idea if mine look or fit any of your images of the characters or am I way off track.

---------

The Hero: So far we've got a strong young woman, a young captain or perhaps even an officer... an aviator, think "Amelia Earhart". As mentioned, we may want to do the dark side look at her as well as the light side. Still, in her aviator outfit she could look both ways at the same time. Perhaps she has a pearl handled revolver on her hip and looks like she knows how to use it. She should definitely be armed... I don't think the "dark version" needs to look physically different, this can be done more by expression and the look in her eyes.
I'm quite happy to go along with this, maybe a slight physical difference though? e.g. maybe her darker self prefers to wear her hair down or something along those lines? I think there should be some indication when her 'darker' self is in control.


The Protector: A strong and burly man... perhaps an ex-prizefighter or similar? Maybe he's a relative or legal guardian? Good point. If he kind of found the Hero in a memory compromized state, and he didn't just steal her airship or whatever she has, then either: 1. he is a really nice guy, 2. he is a relative/guardian/trustee, or 3. the Shadow has enough on the ball to stand up to him somehow. The middle way is the way that does not detract from Protector's toughness. The only problem is that would mean he's connected to the Hero "from before" so maybe that wouldn't work. I'm thinking he's naive and simple, a guy that "could've been a contendah" and a good person that really doesn't have the mind to try and take over the show... maybe a few too many blows to the head or a manager that double-crossed him... maybe he met the Hero in a VA ward or something like that. Now he sees the Hero and the quest as a way to grab onto the glory that he missed.True. From what I've seen in court, if this guy has any official relationship with Hero and he doesn't like anybody else in the group, he'll just use the court system to kick them out of Hero's life. The brief tends to imply that he is a really nice guy to the Hero, but not necessarily so to everybody. Maybe he's got a bit of Hero worship going on. As you say, this group is his last big chance chance to do something other than be a bartender.
I saw the protector as a strong, kind hearted man who doesn't like to see a woman in distress. I imagined him taking the hero under his wing because she was in a vunerable position and he just wanted to her out. I see him as a hard working, large muscular man who's very over protective over her. I could see him being an ex-prize fighter. Maybe he has a deeper reason for helping the hero. For example maybe she reminds him of a lost loved one? I don't know I'm just specularting. I imagine he would have met her by finding her lost.

The Shadow: A scruffier, surly, male version of the hero... a guy that wants to be important and in on whatever's going on, but also a classic underachiever. I think we are doing great on this guy. How does he disappear for time periods without getting left behind by the aviators? He probably has friends or resources on the side. Does he have some way to contact those guys, e.g. a little helioscope or carrier pigeons? I thought of the airship as having 2 small reconnaissance/combat planes attached to it (like the "skiff" from "Treasure Planet"). The Hero flies one and the Shadow flies the other. from time to time, he can just take off. Or maybe he just disappears whenever they're "in port"? Or both. I basically think we know what we will do for this guy.
I think my drawing of the shadow sums up my opinion of him. I see him as a pretty shady character who not much is known about. He's fairly anti-social and broods. I could see him as being a bit of a double agent.

The Technician: A smaller, fairly young woman... I was thinking cheerful and unpretentious... kinda geeky but caring. My version is a little overweight. I think we can put her in a pretty cool context if we make a little block and tackle airship rigging she is working on or something to that effect. (Maybe like the stuff that is holding a major airship gondola onto the gas bag above, though it would also have a retro nautical rigging feel to it. I'm not talking about rendering the whole ship or anything but perhaps just a gunwale and bit of rigging that she is working on.) Yeah, that's very much what I was thinking... maybe in addition, this airship has a complicated internal steam boiler system for hot air and propulsion? ready to stand pat on this one. We can probably stick her in the boiler room and put somebody else out on deck for flavor.
I definately see her as small and geeky, but I also see her as being the youngest member of the team who's rather skinny and tom-boyish in appearane. I think she should be working on something which can be clearly seen as a vehicle/plane or whatever.

The Sage: My idea to blend him into the group is that he's a Colonial-era English-educated mystic. Think Jules Verne's "Captain Nemo". Perhaps he's a true mystic as in "The Shadow" who feels that whatever the group is doing is spiritually important... or perhaps he's a charlatan who sees some profit in it. Blackcherry's Sage is moving in a Mr. Miyagi or Yoda-ish direction, which is fine by me. This is the easiest place to work in an Asian character, unless they all are Asian. The Boxer Rebellion was a xenophobic movement, but not all the Chinese felt uniformly since some had converted to Christianity (and then there were the other areas of european colonialism in southeast asia). If we go with this idea, ALL the characters would be Asian... it's an interesting thought, but not one I would be real comfortable with... only because we would be working with a culture and history I know little about.I think the all asian idea would be very difficult to pull off in this time frame, e.g. 2 1/2 weeks. Other people are kind of working on one or more characters in that vein. The airship idea seems to be our core direction.
Due to the sage being 'from other parts' I think we could work him in as being asian if that's what you guys want to do. I think my design would work quite well as a little chinese looking guy. He might need a change to his outfit as he is rather mystical for what we're leaning towards now.

The Rabble Rouser: Actually, my version and Blackcherry's version are not that far apart. I thought of him also as being a bit of a flashy, dramatic showoff. I was thinking a bit more of an academic, artistic radical... and maybe Blackcherry is thinking more along the lines of a gambler and showman... but really, we're pretty close. I think they can be reconciled. This guy has some ability to charm, but also apparently rubs some people the wrong way. A guy with skill at gambling and radical political beliefs could probably do both of those things by turns. What's his game? Whist? Faro? Running a praying mantis fighting ring with the Sage? Good ideas! I was thinking along the lines of a card sharp... cards or dice are easy to travel with. Maybe he's a huckster that carries loaded dice, sells memberships to bogus political groups, or collects for "local charities". Ha Ha! I am seeing Al Pacino in a white suit saying "I, Tony Montana, am political refugee. I working in an anti-Castro group. I get a lot of political donations." Seriously though, as between cards or dice, I think the backs of cards would give a better chance to put design motifs into the image. Dice are dice, and other than that they don't pack much eye candy potential.
You can see how i picture him, which I think would suit a gambling radical, sounds like a good direction to go to me. I see him as a card player, but he could do cards and dice. If he loves gambling i doubt it would make a difference to him. I think he could be a bit of con-artist and cheat as well, thus how he always seems to land in trouble. I think he should be drawn with some cards.

Edit about Logistics: We will also have to nail down ASAP what everybody is going to do. We only have a couple of weeks now so it is probably about time to start the finals.
I'm definately all for this! I've got other things to get done towards the end of this month too so i'd like to make a start on my part as soon as possible. The sooner we start the more time we'll have to discuss our work throughout to make sure we're all happy with the end result.

[arttorney]

For a second there I thought we had lost you. I just went back and recapped the people in Puss N Boots and Mary of the Blue Lights who got over 30% and I can see that realistic or stylized seem to do about equally well. In Puss N Boots I note that CCThrom did a somewhat stylized character that reminds me some of your style, so I know he could adapt to your style if you penciled. (@ blackcherry)

What I am seeing in blackcherry's characters is a youthful exuberant style, while CCThrom kind of pencils the way I wish I could sometimes. The characters have such personality and tend toward realism.

Right now, in the other threads, I am seeing a couple of groups that are going to be very competitive in the realism department but I haven't seen as many groups that would be top tier competitive in stylized. I'm inclined to have blackcherry start these out because I think we might be able to corner the stylized market easier than the realistic one in the poll. (of course I haven't seen what Entdriod's group is doing as yet.)

CCThrom and I could interchangeably ink or color.

[CCThrom]

Good points, there are a number of teams that could kick my pencils if I tried to compete on their turf... but I think we at least stand a chance if we go stylized.

So yeah while it's not how I'd "want" to break this up... I'm thinking maybe we let Blackcherry cut loose on some stylized designs. Maybe I can help out, maybe not necessary. Arttorney and I can work the finals.

A little direct feedback since you missed some of the brainstorming... In general I like your designs and here are a few thoughts.

Hero: I think you've got her a little too youthful and frilly. Try mixing in a bit more no-nonsense industrial or military costume.

Protector: seems too generic "video game big guy" to me... maybe push him more towards Arttorney's fistfighter.

Technician: I like a lot, maybe not quite so young... I'm kinda partial to my Rosie's baggy industrial coveralls, but no biggee there. Go nuts with the gadgets.

Shadow: Maybe you can mix my scruffy pilot with your sneaky spy-guy.

Sage: He's good, but you can really push the Asian elements now. He reminds me of Yoda... maybe we can run with that?

Rabblerouser: I think a mix of yours and mine will work well... maybe something like my guy with the long hair and sunglasses, plus your tophat and heavy coat? Some cards sticking out of his pockets?

Hope that helps... 'later!

[CCThrom]

Oh yeah, I don't know what Entroid and Co are up to either, but they are pretty much ALL excellent at stylized/vector so I'd figure on that...

[arttorney]

Yeah. I have mixed feelings about half-shortened pants on the Hero and/or Technician. On the one hand they kind of remind me of Tank Girl, which is very cool. On the other hand, female dress codes (and in fact male ones for that matter) were so uptight in the timeframe steampunk seeks to depict, that if we go putting shorts on people we give out mixed messages. If you really want to use that look I am OK with it as an alternative universe Tank Girl like scenario.

(It's just kind of like: when was the last time you saw a picture of a boxer wearing long pants? Those folks were uptight back in the day. We're not uptight now though, and today's people will be voting the poll.)

[blackcherry]

Ok I'll make a start on some of the final designs then, taking into account what CC comments on my previous designs. I think I'll start with the sage and the rable rouser and go from there.

What is the time frame we're looking at exactly and the style of clothing so I can look it up to better adjust my costumes? If you have an exact costume idea you think will work then do a quick drawing or link me to an image and i'll use that.

Also any ideas for poses for all the characters? If you've got a particular idea and want to do a quick sketch/thumbnail of it then post it and i'll use it, if not i'll just set something up and show you guys before i finish the drawing. I'm thinking of going for something similar to my original pose for the rable rouser, not sure about the sage yet.

CC I'd be happy to work with you on the character drawing if you do fancy helping out, even if you just want to help with posing, costume designs etc.

Anyway, I'll make a start and post my progress so I can get feedback and make any necessary developments/adjustments.

[arttorney]

Oh. I just think that the jumpsuit variations we have been seeing in CCThrom's designs will be fine for costumes.

I have been trying pretty hard to figure out how to get some fun into this for everybody while not making anybody do anything they are not sure they can do well. It's a tough nut to crack. Last night I remembered that the rules say we can do multiple sets if we dare. I had thought then that we could do one set of stylized and one set of realistic for the same fundamental characters. Though it seems like extra work, in a way, it just prevents CCThrom and I from hanging around and doing nothing while you get the characters started. While each of you start characters I could work up some sets such as boiler room, town, wheelhouse, airship deck etc. that somebody could drop characters into.

Here's the specific rule I am talking about:

* Can be changed according to genre. ie, mechanical = magical = steampowered, car = boat = horse, etc.
** You may do two version of this, if you wish.

We must finish by when April 30 has expired in the world. That would be well into May 1 for you. There are two weekends remaining in that time. That looks like one weekend for the initial rendering up of characters and one weekend for finishing touches (with week days for coordinating and whatever work can get done). From what I saw, it looks like you go from your pencil roughs straight to digital. Maybe you can grayscale your characters while CC pencils and then CC colors yours while I ink and color CCs, and you be in charge of framing and saving them as the right file name however fast CC and I can get each one done.

TeamChow_TeamName_Image001.jpg

Thus ours would be something like TeamChow_CrumpetsandPAIN_Image001.jpg et seq.

Does anybody think this ambitious plan is possible?

[blackcherry]

The only character it says we can do two versions for is the hero due to her two personalities, which i think we should do. As for the others I think we should stick to doing one set. I'll start the sketches and happily work alongside CC (if he wants to work on the drawings too so no one's left doing nothing) to make any changes/adjustments/developments or whatever so we get the characters out looking as we want them.

Then I take it you're going to ink them? cos if i colour it before inking how are you going to ink it? Also are we all working on the colouring?

While I'm starting the sketches working on backdrops sounds like a good idea too as thats also not one of my strong points. Also any ideas for poses, possible gadgets any reference pictures for costumes etc i'll welcome too.

[arttorney]

Right. that's why I was talking about the fact that you usually seem to go straight to digital from here. There's not really a point to ink them if that's the case. CCThrom is good at Photoshop while I suck at photoshop. You two could go ahead and work through the characters as digital files and probably do a better job without me.

I am a reasonable environments guy and had some mentoring on CA in industrial design. This is one reason I began talking about backgrounds. As long as you guys have the skills to pop an environment jpeg or other file type into the back layer of your concepts then I could probably contribute something.

[CCThrom]

Sorry guys, I evaporated for a few days there and didn't get a chance to warn you ahead of time. Honestly, this past week would have been impossible for me to do anything... so I don't mind a bit of a wait.

Ok, so we've got 10 days now, including 1 weekend to see this through. Let's think about a possible workflow. That's an intriguing idea... Blackcherry and I working the figures and Arttorney working environments. That will allow us all to contribute. What do you all think? Is this a plan you can get behind? If so, we can do the team-high-five.

The first step now, I think is to start posting "rough final" designs. As Blackcherry works through initial designs, I'll be happy to consult. The important part is to get roughs posted so that Arttorney can get an idea for his backdrops (assuming that's how we go with it). I can also provide initial roughs for some characters, but even so all the initial pencils should go through Blackcherry for consistency's sake.

Ready to roll?

[blackcherry]

Hey CC, was wondering where you'd got to! I'm all for that plan if we're all happy with it.

I've started some of the final designs already, still very rough at the moment. I'm going to post them here to get some feedback.

I've started the sage, hero and the rable rouser. I'm having some trouble with costume ideas for the hero. I'm thinking of something along the lines of how you had her dressed CC with trousers, jacket, boots, neck scarf and goggles on the head. I was going to do the sage simply dressed in some sort of robe and sandals with a staff and pipe and the rable rouser similar to how i dressed him in my initial design crossed with CC's sketch. What do you think?

Also what do you think of the poses? I drew two versions of the hero, the right one being her 'darker' side. I drew that one the hair up and the scarf covering her mouth. I also though maybe she should have a weapon? So i drew in a pistol. Wasn't sure what to with it so i just improvised. The rablerouser is touching his hat and I was going to give him playing cards in his hand with some scattering around him. The sage is just merely sitting smoking his pipe. I'm going to have him staring off into space whch should suit the description given.

The drawings still need work at the moment but i figure the earlier i get feedback the better.

I made a start on shadow too, currently he's in stick man form so i haven't bothered scanning him. I was thinking of posing him like my initial sketch.

CC if you have any ideas for costumes, poses, expressions etc. for the characters you could do some sketches and post them and I could work my designs to them. If you want? I should be able to knock them out faster them so we can move on.

[arttorney]

I was without internet all weekend and much of today. I'm here though. I'll try to make six environment roughs for comment within about two days so we can coordinate. Time is getting short. I've been slammed with work.

[CCThrom]

Howdy all, I'll try to crunch out some feedback tomorrow.

Question: If we go with "plan B" what kind of linework are we looking at? Or in other words, Blackcherry; how clean/final are your lines going to be? Are you planning on a digital inking? If not, would I be working color over scanned pencil line? Those lines will have to be pretty clean of course.

The good news is even though I'm not an experienced colorist, I am used to coloring over pencil if need be. I prefer to let the linework show in the final by the way.

Arttorney, if you are cool with doing essentially "cell" backgrounds, I'm good with that too... environments slow me down.

[arttorney]

Yeah, I'll do it. I am going to make ones with identifiable airship stuff out toward the sides so a character can be stuck in there without covering over the identifiable gadgets and stuff too much to see them.

[blackcherry]

In answer to your question CC I'm not going to have time to digitally ink the drawings, not with 6 characters in this time scale, so it's going to be pencil lines. Though I can assure you that my final lines will be a lot cleaner than what you've seen! When i've got the pose, expression and costumes pinned down from the feedback I'll clean up and finish each one.

I'd be happy to help you with the colouring if we're colouring digitally. Oh and I prefer to let the linework show in the final too.

I'll check back tomorrow for the feedback on the designs then I'll get the final pencils up as quick as I can.

[arttorney]

Here are a couple of environment roughs I cranked out this morning. Sorry about the boiler room. With steam, sooner or later somebody has to break down and shovel or chop wood.

[CCThrom]

Sorry guys, I've gotten swamped... and having network issues as well... I've got a bunch of stuff scanned but I won't be able to post until tonight. That means, with time difference Blackcherry won't see any help until Friday morning at best. Ugh, hope you're ok. Scanning and posting is still my Achilles' heel... mebby I should start roughing digital... dunno.

[arttorney]

I misused last night and so I am falling behind what I figured I had better do.

I know there are some pretty crappy lines in the boiler room one, but does it look like the wheelhouse one could be digitally touched up to be good enough to serve as a background here? If so, I think I could get six such basic backgrounds ready by about Tuesday, leaving a couple of days for ending manipulations. (I am not proposing to leave the digitally touching up to somebody else. I mean I would touch that one up and get another five halfway decent marker drawings together and touch them up before handing off.)

[blackcherry]

CC, No worries, despite not getting the feedback I just continued on with the Sage and the Rabble Rouser, making any corrections to the designs and I altered the Rabble Rouser's pose a bit too. So I they're pretty much done. I though it was best I just continued due to the time issue.

I'm going to get the other three (Protector, Technician & Shadow) roughed out tonight now then I'll check back here tomorrow for the feedback and your designs and also to post what i've done so far and see what happens from there.

Also, What's the plan with the colouring? We're doing it digitally right? Are we going to split the characters between us? I'm hoping to get started on it by the end of the weekend really cos I've got some other things going on next week which means I'm going lose some time, maybe 2 days.

Attorney, I think the background with the wheel will be fine with some touching up and I think the boiler room one could work too with some development.

I don't think the backgrounds need great amounts of detail so they don't take the attention away from the character designs. What other settings have you got planned? I think you should think of a design that'll suit each of the characters. Like the wheelroom would probably fit the heroine with her being the pilot. I should have all the designs up by tomorrow I hope, if that'll be of any help.

I was thinking of having Shadow leaning against something (you'll see what I mean when I get my design scanned and posted) so it'll probably help you to see that so you can draw something to suit. That's if you both like the pose...

[arttorney]

For the Shadow I was thinking about drawing some sort of a town scene and what just occurred to me is to do a kind of life drawing of the entrance to "The Palace" while I am in Arizona this weekend. In Prescott there is a place called Whiskey Row which is now for tourists but was once where the prospectors came into town to do their drinking and gambling and other naughty things. The Palace is a bar right in the middle of Whiskey Row that has an entrance with those old time cowboy movie swinging doors. I can try to draw that in a way that there is something for him to be leaning up against on one side or the other. Maybe if I go in there and order a burger and a beer they won't mind if I make a drawing that would be like him leaning up against one side of the entrance on the inside of the swinging doors as seen from the inside. The Rabble Rouser would be a great choice for this scene too, because of the cards.

Tech- I am going to give her a place around the edge of the deck with some block and tackle looking rigging it looks like she was working on. Just give her some kind of wrench to be holding or something and I'll make sure there are some bolt or nut looking things in the rigging contraption that she must have been working on.

I figured that having to shovel the coal might be one of the reasons the Rabble Rouser gets pissed off about social inequity. If the Rabble Rouser gets put in the town scene then I think the protector would look good in the boiler room, because all that shoveling is a pretty macho activity. That would then mean the Shadow had to get the rear deck scene discussed below.

Hero will look good in the room where steering happens.

Protector- I guess I will try to draw a fantail or poopdeck kind of scene where you can see a big air rudder off the back of the ship behind him. I'll be sure to make a beam for leaning in case the Shadow goes in this background.

Sage- perhaps I'll just draw his stateroom with a porthole to one side.

[CCThrom]

I would say that given the time, digital color is our only real option. I wouldn't be able to get started until Sunday at best. I doubt I could color all six characters in a week, especially given that Arttorney needs some time to blend. Unless I go really simple... coz on the other hand, I haven't really done anything but doodle so far

How will you transfer the files?

[arttorney]

Just chiming in. I figure the question was probably more directed at blackcherry.

When I finished the environments I figured I would either flatten them and send as the highest resolution jpeg I could to keep options open, or else perhaps a .psd

I wasn't planning to have a lot of layer complication because the backgrounds are the backgrounds and there is no point in making this any more tricky than it has to be.

I would say I can't be trusted to put the characters into the environments well myself.

[CCThrom]

I was talking about the actual file transfer... depending on how large she works, psd files can get pretty huge. With my clients, most of the time I'm sending grayscale tiffs, so file size is almost always under 10 meg.

[blackcherry]

CC, the files im going to send you to colour will be the full size finished pencil work in jpeg form. You can then open it in Photoshop and save it as a .psd file when you add layers to colour. Is that ok for you?

Attorney, in regards to what you said about the backgrounds I think what you suggested for the shadow and rabble rouser would be great. I think having the shadow leaning outside by the entrance would fit perfectly cos I'm planning on giving him a cowboy style hat like in my rough sketch The rabble rouser would probably work well in a bar environment too, or even a town.

I think somewhere where manual activity occurs would be great for the protector, the sage will probably work in an outdoor or inside scene. I think he'd be sitting in a somewhat quiet environment though. The steering room would fit for the hero and the technician could probably go anywhere as long as there was some tools scattered around.

I had a thought for the technician. I'm going to draw her with a toolbox and probably a wrench or something, but i was thinking of maybe including something like one of these by the side of her:

http://www.steampunklab.com/robots/3

What do you guys think? I though with her being all technical and interested in transport and moving things that she might be kind of interested in making like smaller robots of her ideas.

[arttorney]

Kind of like a little mechanical familiar. Loads of Disney style female characters have some kind of miniature side kick. It is uasually capable of smartass remarks, but that's kind of beyond the scope of CHOW where I don't see a lot of speech bubbles.

Here is the Palace. There is a picture of a dude standing in the cowboy doorway holding the doors open. You can probably see the pillars for leaning on either side. Check out the bar. http://www.historicpalace.com/

[blackcherry]

The palace looks awesome! I really like the bar and the entrance area I think they'll make great backgrounds. Hope you have a great weekend!