The best way to learn? (discussion)

[Pawkfox]

Specifically directed to pro's but any advice you think is helpful and understandable is a positive one.

Q: a) What is the best way (according to you) to learn how to draw and make art?
Not just illustrations or concept work. But any art related work since you need to start somewhere.

Do you copy others? Do you draw from imagination? Drawing from life is always a good thing but other than that?

b) What is your major (i.e concept art, illustrations, blueprints, etc) and what do you think is the best way to learn what you do?

Please motivate your answers for better discussion and understanding.

Peace.

[wheezy]

I have been impressed with the urgency of doing. Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Being willing is not enough; we must do. ~ Leonardo da Vinci

There is no substitute for trial and error education. If you want to be good at anything, you have to just buckle down and try it out for yourself. Observe from life, if you buy a art book, actually read it and practice the examples. Sooner or later you will begin to mold all that you learn into something of your own, your style. Watching and reading about a medium of choice is a good motivator and starting point, but will never give you the results on your first try that you see in your mind. Only after countless hours of using the tools will your master them.

Be humble when someone critiques your work and offer your work up as often as you can to someone willing to give you this review. Patience is your creative partner.

[otis]

If you are an artist, you are probably a visual learner. That means you have to listen to your eye. Not your head. Art is not an analytical or theoretical subject.

Many people will read, study lectures, debate, and analyze. But in the end it's how you learn to see.
Use the books, lectures etc as GUIDES.

Art is relatively simple, once you stop over analyzing it.

[armando]

It's good to know what and why you're drawing before starting. Two basic methods of drawing could be called form drawing, and light drawing. The best explanation I've found of the two principles is in Heinrich Wolflinn's "Principles of Art History", definitely read it.
Form Drawing: is basically perspective drawing. We draw the form we sense from the flat image we see. We draw the object's contours, paying attention to overlap, readable silohuette, cross contours, and all that.
Light Drawing/mass drawing: is the drawing of general areas of value, which form shapes that fit together like pieces in a puzzle. In this type of drawing the perspective contours, or object contours, are ignored and instead the flat pattern effect of light is sort of copied. Strokes are laid in to get even values, no attempt is made to model the surface with cross contours.

Form drawing is needed to describe objects. Mass drawing is needed to draw a scene. Being aware of those two types of thinking make it possible to be more specific while practicing, and opens you up to new possiblities.

[bleupencil]

I find it helpful to see how other's have done something (preferring to actually watch them in the process if possible) and then have at it myself. But when it all boils down, it's best to take Wheezy's advice and jump in and attempt the thing. A little thinking about purpose and possible outcome is good, but too much and it might spoil the outcome... or worse, it might not get done at all!

I'm studying animation, and the best way to learn that is to study life and movement (as well as animations), practice practice practice, and keep on drawing!

[tomwaits4noman]

practice its as simple as that

when I approach an picture I try to focus on what areas are I need brushing up

and focus on that

If I am weak at drawing hands or arms or legs I will studies
try to break down what you are drawing into parts understand the under lying structure

I try to draw from life, if I can't I will use photo reference

personally I will not spend too much time focusing on other artist work rather work on developing your own style.

[Pawkfox]

Okay we've got alot of
"this is how you learn to draw" basics like human figure and landscapes.
(and of course practice is vital but what if you don't know what to practice?)

Now if we could get more subject oriented answers.
Like in the different art related genres you can work as.

(Hopefully some beginner will read this and get some answers)

Peace.

[J Wilson]

of course practice is vital but what if you don't know what to practice?

You practice what you see. Practice seeing the "big picture". What are the large forms? Where are the darkest and lightest values? What are the basic shapes? What is the over all value structure? Learn to see past the surface details, those only distract from the more basic lessons. Details come later.

[Yiako]

If you want to learn to ride a bicycle you have to ride a bicycle. You can read hundreds of books, looking for thousands of tutorials and seeing dozens of videos of people drawing, and all that it won't be worth a good afternoon drawing from reference with your eyes and mind wide open.

[deepbluehue]

If you are asking what skill to study first and how many hours a day to study it, I don't think you can approach it like that. Each skill you try to master will lead to other skills related to it, such as: drawing will eventually lead to using light and tone to define form. You will need to bounce back and forth between skills in order to learn how to use them together. You will encounter many difficulties in mastering a medium, whether it's clay, computer, paint, etc. Learn as much as you can about the medium and whatever tools are necessary to work with it. With experience, you will figure out how to make your own tools if you find it useful.

The best way to learn is to approach your subject with an open mind and be receptive to the challenges that are presented to you. Don't run away from a good challenge, work through it even if you don't want to. There are no short cuts to mastering art, you will have to do your own work. No teacher or professional can give you their years of experience, they can only guide you towards working through your challenges. The best teacher will teach you how to learn on your own. When you figure out what it is that you want to master, find a teacher who can get you started. Then put your heart into learning.

[Mirana]

a) Practice.

b) Sequential Art. Practice. Seqa is only slightly different in that you need to read books (real ones--like novels) and watch film to understand storytelling...but it's all the same concept.

Gee, that sounds boring, doesn't it? Not so glamorous and easy! Well...because it isn't. There's no short answer. You look at stuff around you (real life, art, experience) and ya just draw it until you get something you half-like.

[creatix]

you just DRAW. It really is that simple.

The simplicity of that statement is not the problem. The problem is how complicated you are making it.

I've said this to many people recently and it is something that I have learned from my own experiences to overcome. It was my "awakening" so to speak.

The answer to your question is right in front of your face. You know it is the answer and you have always known it is the answer but you will not admit it. The reason you will not admit it is because it doesn't give you an excuse, a reason, a way out and a way of dealing with something else that is the problem.

You have to DRAW. Once you truly face the fact that it really is that simple you lose all leverage you have. If ALL you have to do is draw and it is that simple, then what else can you say so long as you have a blank piece of paper and pencil in front of your face? You can say nothing. You pick up the pencil and start drawing. However, by coming up with responses such as "yea but what should I be drawing?" or "what if I'm drawing the wrong thing?" or "what did the pro's start drawing?" or "what are some good books or websites that I can look at to help me draw better?" you are giving yourself an excuse for NOT picking up that pencil and pressing it against that blank piece of paper.

When you are afraid of drawing you don't want to draw. What are you afraid of? Maybe the art won't turn out as you imagine it. Maybe you will realize how much you suck. Maybe you feel like you have so far to go be like the artists that you idolize. Maybe you will question whether all of the hard work will pay off. Maybe it won't be a career you will truly like. Maybe it won't be a career that gives you the lifestyle and pay that you dream of. Maybe others (except maybe your family) won't give a damn about anything you draw for the next 5 years (until you finally make it). Maybe someday you will draw something that you are amazingly proud of and someone will say -"it's not bad but you need to work on your anatomy", effectively shitting on your drawing and making you feel like it was all pointless.

Trust me, its fear, not a lack of knowing what to do. How do you cope with fear? By running away from it. The success of what you might someday become in the art world is an amazing thought. However, avoiding fear is a stronger emotion than the pleasure you might get. To run away from it you distract yourself and give yourself excuses. Now when you are AFRAID to do what you know you should do - JUST DRAW - you can say to yourself, "well, I didn't know what to draw so thats why I don't have anything on the paper."

There were amazing artists before there was any internet. There are amazing artists that never went to any art school or had formal training. There are amazing artists that honed their skill almost in isolation (see some artwork from prison inmates). There are artists that honed their skills asking grocery stores for brown paper bags and stealing charcoal dumped from a barbecue.

It is not because you don't know the best way, it is because you will not accept that you already know the best way. By complicating the answer to your post "The Best Way to Learn" it allows you to spend every moment that you should be drawing searching. Searching for an answer. Another answer. An answer to justify your inability to be willing to do what you should do. An answer that just might give you a way to put the blame on ANYTHING other than yourself.

When you start to blame yourself you start to realize that you have more control than you previously thought. Having control is scary because it reminds you of how much power you truly have. Having power is scary because of what happens you don't achieve your goals. It is a thousand times easier when you fail (not achieving your goals) to tell yourself that you never truly had as much power as you needed than it is to admit that you had the power all along and simply didn't use it.

Because quite frankly, if you have the 2 resources that you need to DRAW, which is a marking device and something to mark on (which I am certain you have had) then you have nothing to blame other than yourself.

I know its REALLY long and I don't pretend to speak from some higher place. I've just seen a TON of posts like these recently and I thought I'd share my experiences.

[armando]

"basics like human figure and landscapes."

The human figure and landscapes are not the basics. The basics are line, shape, value, and edge.

Lack of knowledge is what keeps people from drawing decently. Learn the basics first, then practice the fuck out of those basics.

Line, shape, value, edge explained here: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=117915

Good info here on form drawing: http://www.dhfa.net/Artiststatement2.html

Shape mass drawing here(I have not gone through this book in it's entirety):
http://www.archive.org/details/compo...erie00dowauoft

Design is about knowing what you want to say. Loomis's "Creative Illustration" has a questionaire to help you figure out what you're trying to say with your picture.

Learn as much as you can about art. Study art history, theory, read artist biographies etc, etc. That's the difference between a pro and a hobbyist.

[plundh]

I don't think it is as simple as "just draw". In my experience, what you draw and paint and how you think about the process greatly influences learning speed.

You will gain little from mindlessly copying pictures, but you if you carefully analyze while you're doing it, why does the light fall like this and where is the weight in this pose, you will learn something.

Anatomy is the best example. If you only draw from live models or copy anatomy books, progress will again be slow, but when you learn how the bones connect and what functions muscles have and even their names, the body will be etched more clearly in your mind.

In the same way, there are different exercises that will make the principles of say, color or gesture, more obvious. When I was lazier, I spent more time thinking about painting then actually painting, but still improved a lot from one painting to the next. Everybody learns differently.

If there is any general advice to be given, it's this: be entirely aware of exactly what you are doing at any given time, don't just mindlessly move your brush or pencil around.

I always found it helpful to have specific goals as to what I want to improve in. Always leave a painting with a firm idea of what you will do better on the next one.

The very first step for any artist, before even thinking about anatomy and the like, is learning to draw what you see. In this case, I agree the answer is really simple; draw from life as much as possible. But even here, I think exercises like contour drawings can speed up the process, as can an understanding how your brain handles these tasks (Betty Edwards).

[Farvus]

I agree with armando here. Human figure and landscapes are not basics.

When I first started learning life drawing, the foundations were measuring proportions, finding right angles, comparing values, composing stuff on basic level. It was all thinking alongside with drawing (especially in composition). "Just DRAW" type of answer sounds to me like it should be mindless putting shapes on paper. I think Pawkfox already knows that he needs to practice so it's not very constructive answer.

Do you copy others? Do you draw from imagination? Drawing from life is always a good thing but other than that?

I think your question is too general so it leads to very general answers. You partially answered yourself.

- Draw from life, draw from imagination, draw from books and photos, sometimes copy masters. Basicly draw from everything.
- I believe that every time you practice it's important to focus on one thing at a time. If you study values, don't need to use color. If you study character's gesture, don't need render your drawings...etc.
- Carefully observe your own art and spot biggest weaknesses. If it's hard for you to notice them, compare with professional art to see what's lacking. Once you know what it is, face it instead of avoiding or ignoring. At the same time shoot for something even beyond what has been done so far.
- That's my personal preference but I would say, don't stay in one area for too long in order to keep balance and keep your observation fresh.
- Observe everything around you. Colors, shapes, ideas, patterns. Look at other art, watch movies, read books, comics, discuss on forums and so on.
- You can read what are the basic fundamentals in Andrew Loomis "Succesful drawing" (first 20 pages). It's here - http://fineart.sk/index.php?s=0&cat=15

[D.C.]

Zvuv makes a good point. As a beginner my biggest fear is that I'll copy too much without thinking enough about it. This also stems from the fact that once I start something I pretty much get "obsessed" by it. I don't want to look back in six months and realize that I made little or no progress.

What do you think about mentoring? Is it only advised for those who don't have the discipline to keep drawing or is it also beneficial for beginners like myself?

[otis]

but what if you don't know what to practice?)

You practice what ever you suck at.

As a beginner my biggest fear is that I'll copy too much without thinking enough about it. This also stems from the fact that once I start something I pretty much get "obsessed" by it. I don't want to look back in six months and realize that I made little or no progress.

This may sound harsh, but STFU and stop "crying" about your fears and just draw. If you spend your whole time looking back at how "little" progress "you think" you've made, worrying about this or that, and fearing everything, you probably will never enjoy art.
In fact if this is how you approach anything new in life, then get ready for a lot of disappointments!

Realize this DC:

There is no "right or wrong" way to learn and grow. You could ask all the questions in the world, and be given all the answers. But you still will accomplish NOTHING with out action.

So stop paralyzing yourself with all these pointless questions, and just ..DO IT.

[VirgL]

hmmm,,, one simple sentence that helped me a lot recently...

Study the notes, but sing the Song, dont sing the notes..

the notes being all the basics you need to study and practice to fix them in your head and the song simply being what you want to draw on that damn piece of paper... when you draw you must not fear or be concerned by your % of knowledge of the basics, you must visualize as best as you can what you are drawing.. if you draw without an idea, your just doodling.... and believe it or not , but the more you studied the basics, the easier it will be to put your ideas on paper... your not drawing a mathematical equation that can be learned, you are trying to give life to something on paper.\
well thats what i think...
However, the best way to learn is a good question for some stuff . Like whats the best way to learn anatomy ? By learning the msucles names ? By drawing the bones and muscles ? By drawing naked people on photos ??
I think you just have to try everything that comes to your mind and with time you will find your own path and realise what helps you build your visual library the most.

Like many said, fear is really a big problem for many artist, dont fear just draw what you want to draw, and one day with practice it will match closely what you have in your head

[J Wilson]

I don't think it is as simple as "just draw". In my experience, what you draw and paint and how you think about the process greatly influences learning speed.

You certainly have to be engaging your brain when you draw, but there is no substitute for drawing, which is where the "just draw" comes from. No matter what else you do, it's wasted if you aren't drawing. People seem to come here daily and ask what they should be doing, and the number one thing they AREN'T doing is actually drawing, all the time. They seem to think there are magic secrets that they can be told in books, online, given as advice etc, and it just isn't true. There are things that can help, but ONLY if you've put in time drawing. The more you draw, the more the advice that is out there will make sense. None of that advice is hidden or hard to find. We can't tell anyone anything much different than they'll find in hundreds of art books, so if it isn't clicking for you, it's because you haven't put in the work yet to have it make sense.

[Elwell]

Unfortunately, the best way to learn is to start young. That way, when you get to the point where you you start intellectualizing everything your skills are ready for it. For those of you who weren't able to do that, remember to (a) be patient, and (b) HAVE FUN.

[D.C.]

So stop paralyzing yourself with all these pointless questions, and just ..DO IT.

Well so far I've tried to draw every day. But you're right, I should just enjoy it and not overthink it so much.

[wheezy]

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.