The Sporadic Sketchbook [August 18th]

[BlackDelphin]

aaah then it's all good :3
waiting for the next wip

and nice smooth lines on these poses too!
you're particularly good with the medium view point and those look up angles, the looking down on angles need a bit more..something..assuredness perhaps
and btw did you do anatomy studies? like..draw a leg with all it's bones..or draw a pelvis?

[ohnojenny]

[BlackDelphin] I didn't do any digital works yesterday -- I'll be sure to work on the WIP today. :3
Thanks! I think doing these with a marker forces you to have more confident lines -- unless they're sketchy like a lot of mine are. But I have some good ones.
And... no. I haven't really done that. I should. Why?

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All right. Some neck and arm studies from mostly Bridgman, but a lot of the necks were studies off of photos on google, and a self portrait that ACTUALLY looks like me! The last one had some resemblance, but -- hmm. I just need to get used to digital painting again.
And I see more anatomy studies for sure.

[BlackDelphin]

aah so you have curly hair?! AWESOME!! I have too
And i think marker force you to be more precise right off the bat with your lines, do them right..right away, but they also could make you scared of actually drawing the line lol

in the last paining you did, next to the date, the guy's skin tones go really awesome with the scarf and the start of the shirt, but i don't think the hair tones are that good...and perhaps of the scanned in lines or something it looks a bit grainy too

and btw i like the front view looking up...you did great! but the neck looks a bit thick on the right side (on your left page, in the first half)

[Nicky S]

Oooh, nice studies...

With defining shapes without lines, I meant using shadows to define a shape, with crosshatching for example. 'Cause crosshatching can be hard to learn, and it's never to early to learn something.

I like the marker drawing, it gives a nice skin tone, a bit too pink perhaps, but I like it.
I also like the man posing, though his legs seem a bit too short for the rest of his body, but it's only a little bit. Of course there's allways the possibility that the man actually has short legs in real life. ^^

Keep doing the posemaniacs sketches, they are a great help if you don't have the chance to do life drawing sessions.

Keep it up!

[sketcheth]

It looks like the neck studies paid off some already! The color sketches from the previous page are also really nice, I'm quite a fan of the tones in the swim suit girl sketch, and the figures just keep getting better. Some of the ones from your figure pages are really exceptional. The faces are awesome, as always, I look forward to seeing more of them! Can't wait for the next post!

Oh and congrats on page 3!

[AsaB]

Hiii again! Yay, I'm so glad you updated

Cool new studies! Bridgman and PoseManiacs is a golden mix.

I adore that SP you did. You look like a Greek godess! That's the first thing that popped in my mind. Beautiful hair That stretching nude guy does seem a little short in the middle, however. But his limbs look nice!

Well, I hope you won't abandon us again Keep on drawing and being cool!

[ohnojenny]

[Black Delphin] Haha, yes... I do have curly hair. Sometimes it's lovely, mostly it's not. Such a pain to draw. I almost left my hair not filled in.
And I completely agree. I get scared to use markers sometimes -- especially if I like the rough.
And actually, the guy was completely traditional. Marker and colored pencil. The grain you see is from the colored pencil. I do that on purpose for a different look, because hair has texture. But thanks!

[Nicky S] I absolutely LOVE the look of crosshatching! I will definitely do more works with it! I kind of did it on my self portrait, but I guess the scan washed it out. Any tips?
Aaah yeah, I tried to distract from the pink with an olive green on some bits of skin. Maybe I should've overdone the green, you can barely see it...
Haha, this is funny. Someone said his torso was too short. Haha, I need to do more studies to crack this mystery... Thank you so much Nicky S! Your crits are always so wonderful.

[sketcheth] Yaaaay page three. :3 Thank you!

[AsaB] Yes! I think the studies are helping me improve a lot.
Hahaha... well, same neck of the woods, I suppose. Greek wouldn't be a first. :3 And someone said his legs look a tad short! Haha, I need to study the human anatomy more...
I hope not to abandon this place anytime soon! Keep me on my drawing!

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Your guys' critiques are fantastic, they're really getting me to delve into things with a more interested and watchful eye. So thank you all so much!
I just wanted to update with my WIP. I moved the figure and horse, and filled in some base colors. They might change, who knows, but I'm leaning more towards these...
If you have anything on the figures especially, do tell me now so I can fix them! (Why they're the only ones uncolored and very rough).

[sketcheth]

The addition of colors I think helps to show a bit more about the direction, but I think the horse's anatomy is a little wonky, it seems a little too humanized, like the rib cage just isn't massive enough, and it has human shoulders almost.

This is Eliot Goldfinger's Animal Anatomy for the Artist. http://www.scribd.com/doc/8198405/Animal-Anotomy It's a fantastic resource and it's definitely worth flipping through. It's very detailed and shows the muscle and skeletal structure of several different animal types if you really want to get into that. It could be helpful for both the dragon and the horse because dragon anatomy is fairly similar to cat anatomy in a lot of ways...depending on how you draw the dragon. Anyways. It could be helpful.
I think the relations between the figure is a lot stronger now because it establishes a better foreground for the image with them place where they are now. I know you're still in the rough stages, but I think you made definite progress with it.

At the beginning it shows a horse in sculptural form but in a sort of Bridgman-esque way so that you really see the shapes and structures that are making up the form. Have a look. Keep drawing, it looks great. And I appreciate your answering questions on my thread while I'm neglecting it. I hope I am being helpful too.

[BlackDelphin]

ooh how mega cool!! now that you mention it, and i take a closer look, he DOSE look traditional
and i totally kn ow what you mean!! he's mega curly the first two days after i wash him, but becomes a real pain as time passes xD

and i see you updated that work!!
i think the colours are a bit to...the same level; i know it's a very early stage but you should consider from the start what your focal point will be
i also think that those poses are better, but you do realise that it needs more spacew downwards now, no? it would be to cut off otherwise.
and looking at that person's size and the hill...hmm...shouldn't the mountains be smaller? at lest..some of them?
have you thought of drawing perspective lines?

good luck onwards hun~

[Nicky S]

I agree with Sketcheth on the horse. A bit of research will help you fix it.
About the perspective, the distance between the mountains (and the dragon) and the hills in the foreground seems a bit short. Adding hills between them can help, also rescaling the mountains and the dragon can help. Also, don't forget that there's a horizon, it can help the perspective a lot.
Looking forward to the progress!^^

[ohnojenny]

[sketcheth] Thank you! I downloaded it, and I'll be sure to use it for more studies in the future. I quickly tried to do a horse study -- I'm going to have to become really familiar with its anatomy before I can put perspective in, maybe, as there are no perspective shots. We'll see!
And relax. You are being so helpful.

[BlackDelphin] I do not quite understand what you mean by "same level." Do explain further! And the perspective lines!
I may have to redo the entire thing -- not that it'd be that bad, since I didn't go into coloring, really. Thank you!

[Nicky S] You and sketcheth have my back on these things. Thank you, you're too kind.
Adding hills? I think I'll pull the current hills down some before I do that. I have to somehow make the mountains smaller... but I don't want to redraw them. I think I know what I'll do...
Can you elaborate more on the horizon? I've never really done environments well.

---------

Quick update. Kind of still surprised that Michael Jackson died.
I tried to crosshatch, and it looks awesome in my actual sketchbook (awesome as in you can discriminate each line), but my scanner makes everything fade to an extent. The people on the side were people I sketched when I was at the park with a couple of friends.
Also did some horse studies. Or tried.

[Pezz3D]

There is some nice stuff in here ohnojenny.
If you don't mind I'd just like to mention a couple things I noticed that I think might help, though taking my word for anything with all my bad habits might not be all too beneficial. I think as far as your lines, as in your studies, if you stop picking up you pen in the middle of a line and gained a bit more confidence in were your placing it you're figure would come through a bit better. Another thing is when you're shading don't be afraid to go over things several times, especially with pens. Pay attention to the direction of your lines and try and `define the planes` with that a bit more. Then go over it again and again in `passes` so to speak. You are getting your shapes down, you just need to make them pop? a bit more.

Btw, I really like some of the colors you've posted. Especially the last face in the left corner of the page 2 or 3 posts up.

[JailHouseRock2]

Hay there jenny,
Great to see you've raised this book from the dead!

Really liking the studies, fantastic gestures and pose work!

Love the figure in the last post, same with the horse studies!

Keep up the good work!
matt

[FightingSeraph]

You have some nice studies, but I would like to see you broaden your horizons a bit.

[sketcheth]

Pezz3D I think has some sound advice. Studying the real form of what you're working could be really good for ya. The horizon line establishes a sense of depth in the image by giving you a place to make everything grow away from, that's what seems to be missing in that image. It really gives structure to everything. So yeah...maybe look into it. I really like those park sketches...I should try park sketching...or maybe painting... lovely sketches. I sympathize with you and your scanning problems. It's never easy.

[Nicky S]

Hey,

I like your new studies, Though the head of the female figure seems a bit too big in proportion with the rest of the body. hehe, you did a pretty detailed study of horse muscles, it's nice to see such enthousiasm. But watch out for proportions, sometimes only a slight mistake can make something look wrong.

I did a quick paint over on your scene with the dragons to explain what I was talking about, I hope you don't mind. I removed the file from my computer, so no worries.

The horizon line is where the mountains are, things grow smaller and colors appear less saturated the further they are away. There are a lot of books that can explain the basic principles of perspective, so they can help.

To make your mountains and your dragon smaller, if you're using photoshop, just use the lasso tool to select them and use ctrl + T to shrink them. (hold shift wile shrinking to maintain the proportion) and paint the area around the mountains.

Keep it up!

[Jesus Food]

ohhh horsey! i love to draw horses, i love ur horses. i love horses!

[Hai]

Nicky S, I think it's a great thing you've taken the time to do a paintover, I always have lots of respect for people that offer that kind of advice. However, I'm gonna offer some different opinions. (If your paintover was merely to explain perspective effects rather than suggest a direction to take the painting in, then I guess you can disregard this as a response to it and just take it as general ramblings)

You've (talkin' to you now ohnojenny ) got some good energy going on in your wip. I think a lot of it comes from your point of view. That's why I'd be wary of changing it towards the p.o.v. in Nicky's paintover. Your angle, the abrupt end of the cliffs and the way the dragon-mountains are placed in relation to the cliffs I feel create a sense of immediacy. Maybe that's not the right word, but it feels like something in the scene is gonna happen very soon. Basically, it tells a story as it presents a situation where something is bound to happen, letting the viewer imagine just what that is (usually something exciting). I'm probably not explaining this very well, but maybe you got the gist of it.

With your character trapped between the edge of the image and the end of the cliffs, if you turn him towards the dragon, you can intensify the situation you've got going on, and that makes for good storytelling. You can be vague and let the viewer imagine what's going on, or you can add more elements to more precisely tell the story you want to tell. Right now, all the viewer knows is that there's a character, there's a huge-ass fricken' dragon atop a mountain, and a gorge between the two. It seems obvious the dragon has the upper hand here. Or does it? These are things you'll want to think about to be able to communicate what you want in your picture.

Nicky's mention of perspective is important, but don't forget that your horizon doesn't have to be... well, horizontal (that sounded silly once I typed it out ). If you do like paintovers, I could always try to clarify with one, but I won't until I get a go-ahead.

I know sometimes when you get a lot of crits on one piece, it sort of builds expectations and it can turn into a chore. But don't worry about that. If you decide not to take a word I said into consideration, that's totally fine. It's your wip - you decide. And whatever you decide to do, you're gonna learn from it whether you're aware of it or not. And as long as you're having fun, there's nothing you can do wrong!

[ohnojenny]

[Pezz3D] Thank you for dropping by!
You know, I totally know what you mean. My lines are very sketchy because I lift my marker to do another stroke to finish a line. It's because my confidence with single strokes is still growing, but I will get there... lemme get anatomy down solid and my lines will be smoother.
And yes, I'll be sure to darken my areas. Thank you again!

[JailHouseRock2] Hello! Yes, I'm really glad I've picked up drawing again... not that it was unbearably long, but it's wonderful to just have the time to do it now. Thank you for your encouragement!

[FightingSeraph] Oh, yeah? What do you think I should touch on? Probably still lifes and environments, no? Thank you for dropping by!

[sketcheth] You know... I really wanted it to be like a skyline shot, so high up that maybe you wouldn't be able to see the actual horizon... I'll fix it. I'll figure something out. I could do it at some sort of distant.. slant maybe... dunno.
And yes, park sketching is fun -- so long as they're still :3

[Nicky S] You know... I am so frustrated with the female body right now. You'll see in this post what I mean. I think it's the boobs. I hate boobs.
Wow, you are... incredible. You go through all this trouble! You're crazy. Thank you for explaining this in such detail! I need to sit down with this scene to really see where I want it to go, what look. I don't think it'll be done any time soon... but a nice in-progress to witness I hope!
Thank you so much...

[Jesus Food] Haha... I used to love horses when I was younger. Yes.

[Hai] Goodness, you and Nicky S... so helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain things and really help me. It does help!
I think I understand the gist of what you're talking about. I really wanted there to be nothing but air between the hills and the mountains. If you could help illustrate what you're talking about, that would be fantastic. Just so I can get a clearer view.
And yes, I intend to turn the guy's head towards the dragon. :3
But with this piece, either way, I'm gonna have to sit down with it a while and just decide on where I want to take it. Thank you again!

------

And some really bad studies. First one is male's. The rest are female. And... I just hate the female body. Maybe it's the boobs, I don't know. I just hate drawing it. I think I improved towards the end, but... Guys, help me out.

[Nicky S]

Nice studies, you did improve towards the end. Just keep doing them, it's the same with boobs. Some studies of reference can help, and just practise drawing them.^^
Ooh, and I really like the small figures on your first page with studies, they look really dynamic.

Hai made a good point on telling your story by using elements like compostion. And, yeah, just enjoy working on the painting.

keep it up!

[Hai]

As I read the posts over again before posting this, I realized I'd been talking about 'cliffs' while you guys had been talking about 'hills'. So, there's every chance I've completely misinterpreted your picture. I think you can get something out of it in any case though. The main idea was to just give an example of an angled horizon, and how the picture changes as you raise or lower it.

This first one is the feeling I got when I first saw your picture. I realize you haven't actually angled anything in your wip, but the diagonal the hills made from left to right just gave me that feeling, and I think it works well. Question becomes whether you actually want to angle your horizon or keep it as it is.


Then here is the same one, but with the background hills removed (truer to your picture).


Then just an example of a low horizon. As long as you're working digitally you can experiment lots! Just draw in a horizon and see what it looks like.


As for whether you want to angle the horizon or not, I'm sure you notice how the angle adds a bit of action and dynamic. Keeping it straight isn't better or worse, it just gives a different feeling. It's all up to you and what you want to say.

I hope you got something out of these, but if there are some things that are off or irrelevant to your idea, then, you know, my bad. And please remember that I am not a professional, so don't take my words as law . Well, you shouldn't really take anyones word as law. Except if it's a policeman or a judge or something, I guess. And they're actually reciting a law... bit of a tangent here... err, I'll stop now.

[BlackDelphin]

WOW Hai !! That's one cool explanation!! And i just love the angle in the first version but with that type of horizon line..everything else looks tricky to draw from my point of view, at my current stage.

jenny - with same level i mean saturation level...choose on what you want to concentrate more with your colours;

[strings]

Another great active sb, seems there is a lot of activity going on in this thread as of late. Creating plenty of thumbnails would be key for tackling these, both of what you have are good and I believe that you can push it further. If I may suggest, establish a foreground so you can compare the scale of the objects and force the sense of depth.

Your pencil and portraits are excellent, continue having fun with exploring your art.

[AsaB]

Whoa, check out all that fantastic advise your getting! I'm sure your dragon piece is gonna kick some serious butt

I like all the figures you're making! However, I feel many of them have the same problem, sort of missing the middle beef, mainly the ribcage. To illustrate, I made a quick redline! Now she's 7 head tall, oddly enough, since I see you wrote that she's supposedly 7,5 long initially? I didn't redline the legs, even though they have some issues, purely because I don't really feel competent enough to give out advise in that area

[sketcheth]

Wow, Hai, that's a fantastic explanation! If you want law you can read a book, but this that is tremendous advice. I think what you were saying about dynamism is especially important, the lower you drop that horizon line the more amazing and huge that dragon is going to seem, especially if you dropped it down to the level of the figure's eyeline.

Anyways, the figures look like they're improving still AsaB speaks for me in this case. Man...I'm useless today. I anxiously await your next update.

[Jesus Food]

hey i would say alot of ur women have broad shoulders, which makes them look more masculine. not that they look like men, i know some women that look like that in their 40's

[ohnojenny]

[Nicky S] Yes, I need to continue to have fun with this... I'll put in some fun in between all these study works. I'm getting a bit disgruntled.

[Hai] ... you're fantastic. Thank you for the helpful post! I've definitely reread it over and over again, and I'll be sure to apply some tidbits into the piece and future pieces. It definitely helped to clear up a lot. Again, thank you!

[BlackDelphin] Aaah... I see. I wasn't planning on keeping the colors those exact ways, but yes, thank you!

[strings] Thanks for dropping by! I like thumbnail work, I'll be sure to do more of those. And depth work? Yes... yes I'll work on that. Thank you!

[Asa B] I know... I'm getting fantastic help here. And from you, too! I guess I didn't size the head up right. Thanks for the adjustment! And the tips! I'll apply them next time.

[sketcheth] Eeh, you're just late on things. But I thank you nonetheless!

[Jesus Food] Heey, you decided to stick around! I'll get on those horses soon, don't worry.
Yeah, yeah... I think that's what's wrong with the women. They need to be chopped down a bit, rounded edges, unless I'm doing one of an athlete. Thank you!

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Okay, had a busy week. Unfortunately, didn't get much drawing time in. But that also might've been from my frustration of the female anatomy. I used several pages, most were awful, but I'll show you a few of my attempts in the order I drew them in. I think I got better a bit.
I'll get some color in the next post -- promise.

day one




day two

[sketcheth]

Your figures are getting to be much, much more consistent and have improved quite a bit since last time, I think. Now you have a good sense of gesture them and they are much more believable, I think the next thing that can benefit you is taking an in depth look at the underlying structure. Try doing a study of the skeleton and then the basic muscle forms that are underneath as well, it will put your figures even more under your control and will make them look a whole lot more three-dimensional.

[Nicky S]

I agree with SKetcheth, I should do some of that myself aswell... Don't worry about your figures too much, they're all part of an evolutional progress, and your improving quite fast, just keep doing them, do some other stuff you like, and have fun.

[Jaxsbudgie]

Good stuff, i know how you feel about being out of practice .... even though i'm on an art course ..... ahem
I haven't *really* drawn since we broke up for the summer, but i still feel like i should be drawing EVERY day like a REAL illustrator.

Keep up the good work, you're obsessed with anatomy aren't you?
I wish i were ... then maybe my life drawing would be better? Meh ...
Your work really reminds me of the Fable 2 concept work, and Bully
Check them out if you have no idea what i'm talking about.


Jax