I'm just giving up...

[Saigokarasu]

Every-time I try doing the skin tone, I end up cursing myself and unable to choose the next tone. The skin is too damn light for indoors yet here I wasted all that effort blotching in the details

I have no clue how to do the hair. I have no idea how to go about the hair pin. Detailed cloth for the hair and undergarments is out of my league, and I can't draw eyes (particularly irises) to save my life. She looks like a drugged-out hillbilly for Christ's sakes! She doesn't look attractive at all! She's suppose to have a cutesy, curious expression yet I even botched that too! Nothing I draw (anything I draw) comes out right and when it comes to coloring I botch it every-time.

What's the point of doing art anymore? There are even younger artists than I (I'm eighteen)who are way beyond my skill level.

Here's the shitty drawing. Feel free to help out anyway you can...

[phoenicorn]

dont be too hard on yourself. this is a great start. the only way i can suggest to help is look on the net for tutorials and keep practicing. if you fail just pick your self back up and start again. as for the artists who you feel are better than you that is always going to be the case. if you become the best at art straight away then you will stagnate and no longer improve. your character does look sexy but instead of focusing on the colours try focus on the light and shade on her then place the appropriate shade of what ever skin tone you feel you need. hope this helps.
please don't give up in my opinion your half way there. tell me if you improve on this as i would love to keep track on it

[Mute]

Hehe, Phoenicorn is right, don't get too frustrated. I think you're at a rather natural stage of the process.

Everyone has wrestled with an image to try and get it to work. It's frustrating, but I think you have some good groundwork set here with your lines to make a good image, I would urge you not to abandon it just yet. Just take a break for awhile, a couple days, maybe a week...maybe a couple weeks.

In the mean time, if you haven't checked it out already http://www.furiae.com/ has both a great skin and great hair tutorial in the gallery section. Check it out!

Rock on man!

[Saigokarasu]

Just redoing the coloring as a whole because of some errors in the construction of the face. Here's the original sketch.

What size should I make it for detailed coloring? The size of this picture is 884 x 1024.

[newman]

don't overthink it. just blast away with a hard brush on high opacity until you've got something you like, THEN clean it up. go wild at first an then pull it back later- if you try to stay too neat at first you'll kill yourself with the pressure!
chuck some different colours in there (blues/greens etc). try shrinking the window you are drawing in right down so you can't focus on the details until later.

[dcorc]

You need to understand "values" - instead of worrying about colour at this point, put the drawing onto a mid-grey background, and paint in the shadows, and the lights, using darker greys/black, and lighter greys/white respectively. The insight you gain from doing this will help greatly with working in colour.

[Fiori]

If your not having fun with this piece anymore then do a different painting and come back to this one later one. There have been countless times i've just wanted to give up on a piece, but its usually because when one thing goes wrong it just snowballs and gets worse, so by just taking a break from it you can start off with a fresh mind again and start to enjoy it because if your not enjoying it then your not going to be happy whatever the result.

Plus a good artist to listen to if you have any frustration with art is Bobby Chui, there are alot of his videos on youtube and just hearing him talk is alot of inspiration, or at least it is to me

btw mute thanks for the link, those are some great tutorials that I would probably have never found

[bashibozuk]

hey, if it was easy every body would be doing it. just take it easy and enjoy. it is the challenges (skin tone, clothing etc) that keeps us going. i agree with other comments that you should work on light and darkness. does not matter if it is the approppriate color if you put enough light and dark in it in approppriate places. cheers.

[Saigokarasu]

Thanks guys. Those tutorials were amazing, although I don't think the variations allotted in the skin tutorial fit for an indoors shot.

[Saigokarasu]

The problem is that I use Corel Painter and the tools in the Furaie tutorials don't seem recognizable among the brushes available to you.

[rattsang]

hi Saigokarasu,

sorry to hear you feel like giving up, i know what it feels like and it sucks. when i feel stuck i usually do some study (loomis is always a good place to start, google it) this can give you the confidence to come back to piece with DETERMINATION. your drawing is good (i couldnt draw like that at 18) but if this is your first attemp at painting indoor lighting is much more difficult than outdoor. this is because indoor lighting has fall off- i.e. the light gets considerably weaker as it travels from the source, and to the untrained eye this 'gradiation' can be inperceptable. the result of this is all the values for light and shadow will be painted by the artist as being the same, when infact they are not. this makes the painting look patchy and 'odd' causing frustration. also if you havent studied anatomy and lighting you need you use reference. everyone needs reference at the begining even the pro's that dont use it anymore, reference is a form of study.

im gonna do a paintover in painter 9.5 here - hope you dont mind and ill explain the reasoning behind what i do. this is not the way i paint or is it the only way to paint but is a simple method you can use as a spring board to learn for yourself

first i lay in the local value of objects, this means there mid value- so black hair is not layed in as black but a dark grey.i do this on a new layer using the digital watercolor coarse mop brush on a multiply layer (uncheck pick up underlying color).
then because its indoor lighting i layin a gradient using dark grey and white on a new multiply layer going in the same direction that our main light source points. this is to make me aware of the fall off i mentioned above, it is our lighting basis.

next you need to check your reference and block in your shadow areas on a new layer, here i used the digital airbrush tool and the same color.
in diffused light the form turns very subtly so using the air brush saves time. rather than having to block in with a hard brush and waste time sofening almost everything, use an airbrush and then make a few bits sharp.

turn on pick up underlying color and make a new default layer. this will be our lights. this is where it gets slighlt more complicated. use the tinting basic round to paint. because your now painting opaquly you need you use roughly the righ values in the right areas. what i suggest you do<8 paying close attention to your reference) is to pick from the canvas a 'light area' slighlt closer to the light soure than the area you are about to paint on.

bear in mind i did this very quickly just to demonstrate (10 min) and my example is very rough but thats not the point. the point is you should be looking to define form by understanding the lighting instead of thinking in terms of value, this will greatly increase your chances of success. ive inclued a posterize version too- it helps you see the imperciable gradiation you need to strive for.

if you do these steps correctly you will have solid form, this is much more important than rendering skin or hair texture properly- with out form you have only flat texture. well im not gonna cover color here as i dont have time now- if you like this though i may come back later and post asome hints on skin color.

well good luck and bye for now.

[Saigokarasu]

Trying to look for a good reference photo for redoing the ski cap.

[rattsang]

ok i will try to do a small tutorial on skin color today will post it here when its done. glad to see you found my ramblings useful

[rattsang]

how to pick skin colors.

this is a very much simplified method for attaining skin colors, one that i used when i started studying color but no longer need as i can pick color by sight and from memory after much practice. i have tried to keep this simple, but it is still quite complex as color is very complex if you have any questions ask me and i will try to clarify.

you start by picking 3 colors, but this isnt the same method youve heard before. the three colors are not the highlight midtone and shadow colours of the skin but rather the local color and 2 modifiers. using this method you dont actually mix the colours together as in other methods but rather use them as a point of reference to move the marker on the color picker. this makes this method faster and more flexable as you can control saturation. the first modifier is the colour of the main light source, it the example below i use yellow the exact color you pick doesnt matter. the second modifier is the color of the reflected light, below i use blue. the local color of the skin has to be in harmony with the main light source color. i dont have time to explain this now but here is a general rule - if the main light source is yellow the local skin color ( for white skin) will be orange. if the main light source is blue it will be pink, this covers the 2 most common light source colors.

first you need to be familiar with the color triangle.and the correct way to use it. when moving around the color triangle rather than movong in straight lines you need to move in curves.

understanding how colors affect each other.

im not going to cover all colors here but just orange (the color of white skin in yellow light)

adding blue to orange neturaizes it by lowering its saturation.
adding green to orange neturaizes it by lowering its saturation but also makes the hue more yellow.
adding red to orange intensifies it and moves the hue towards red.
adding yellow to orange intensifies it and moves the hue towards yellow.

what youre going to do is create a ramp with the local skin color somewhere in the middle and extending out being affected by the 2 modifiers in opposite directions.

as well as moving toward the modifier you need to change the value , progressively lighter for the main light source and progressively darker for the reflected light again you do not achieve this by mixing the local color with the modifiers but through analitical thinking....

the pattern this ramp makes on the color triangle is a shallow cresent.

its important to note here that once you have the ramp you paint the skin with it, ignoring any other variations you see in color or saturation. this ramp is your values so when painting with it try to imagine it as greyscale. dont try to match what you see just get the values right. that is the next step.once the skin is painted in this imaginary greyscale create a new layer and set the blending mode to color. pick the digital airbrush tool. on the color triangle pick a bright red. then roughly indicate the redder areas by spraying the red color over them- at this stage you must exaggerate it make a very obvious statement, later we will turn down the opacity of the layer to make it more realistic. continue doing this for the whole body and the various colour changes (roughly indicated in the diagram) then change the opacity of the layer until it looks ok.
now finally saturation.

the saturation of your shadows will be determined by what is next to it. the exception to this is your deepest shadow which will always be quite saturated because little reflected light reaches it to lower the saturation. the closer a object is to your skin the more it will influence it. saturation can be added using the photo saturation add brush and can be removed by creating a new layer and changing the blending mode to saturation and painting in grey with the digital airbrush.

flatten your layers and rework it

well hope you find this useful.

i had to leave out many things from this tutourial to keep it simple so it isnt 100% accurate but close enough to create believable skin.

[Saigokarasu]

how to pick skin colors.

this is a very much simplified method for attaining skin colors, one that i used when i started studying color but no longer need as i can pick color by sight and from memory after much practice. i have tried to keep this simple, but it is still quite complex as color is very complex if you have any questions ask me and i will try to clarify.

you start by picking 3 colors, but this isnt the same method youve heard before. the three colors are not the highlight midtone and shadow colours of the skin but rather the local color and 2 modifiers. using this method you dont actually mix the colours together as in other methods but rather use them as a point of reference to move the marker on the color picker. this makes this method faster and more flexable as you can control saturation. the first modifier is the colour of the main light source, it the example below i use yellow the exact color you pick doesnt matter. the second modifier is the color of the reflected light, below i use blue. the local color of the skin has to be in harmony with the main light source color. i dont have time to explain this now but here is a general rule - if the main light source is yellow the local skin color ( for white skin) will be orange. if the main light source is blue it will be pink, this covers the 2 most common light source colors.

first you need to be familiar with the color triangle.and the correct way to use it. when moving around the color triangle rather than movong in straight lines you need to move in curves.

understanding how colors affect each other.

im not going to cover all colors here but just orange (the color of white skin in yellow light)

adding blue to orange neturaizes it by lowering its saturation.
adding green to orange neturaizes it by lowering its saturation but also makes the hue more yellow.
adding red to orange intensifies it and moves the hue towards red.
adding yellow to orange intensifies it and moves the hue towards yellow.

what youre going to do is create a ramp with the local skin color somewhere in the middle and extending out being affected by the 2 modifiers in opposite directions.

as well as moving toward the modifier you need to change the value , progressively lighter for the main light source and progressively darker for the reflected light again you do not achieve this by mixing the local color with the modifiers but through analitical thinking....

the pattern this ramp makes on the color triangle is a shallow cresent.

its important to note here that once you have the ramp you paint the skin with it, ignoring any other variations you see in color or saturation. this ramp is your values so when painting with it try to imagine it as greyscale. dont try to match what you see just get the values right. that is the next step.once the skin is painted in this imaginary greyscale create a new layer and set the blending mode to color. pick the digital airbrush tool. on the color triangle pick a bright red. then roughly indicate the redder areas by spraying the red color over them- at this stage you must exaggerate it make a very obvious statement, later we will turn down the opacity of the layer to make it more realistic. continue doing this for the whole body and the various colour changes (roughly indicated in the diagram) then change the opacity of the layer until it looks ok.
now finally saturation.

the saturation of your shadows will be determined by what is next to it. the exception to this is your deepest shadow which will always be quite saturated because little reflected light reaches it to lower the saturation. the closer a object is to your skin the more it will influence it. saturation can be added using the photo saturation add brush and can be removed by creating a new layer and changing the blending mode to saturation and painting in grey with the digital airbrush.

flatten your layers and rework it

well hope you find this useful.

i had to leave out many things from this tutourial to keep it simple so it isnt 100% accurate but close enough to create believable skin.

I see. This was very informative.

I still have one question: how do you convert a black and white picture (as you done in a previous post) and select various hues for coloring from it?

[rattsang]

well this is not as easy as it seems. when you colorize a black and white image the problem is that the saturation and hue for all the values are the same unlike my method above, so the colors will seem 'dead'

i dont often colorize b&w images anymore but when i do i create a colorize layer and fill it orange or pink (the local skin tone from above) then i paint over this layer on a opaque layer using a similar method as above creating a crescent shape on the color triangle. this method requires alot more experience to do 'properly'. really there are no short cuts. it would be harder to do this i think than my method above as it would require more sensitivite to the properties of color.

what i can suggest is make a study in black and white . then posterize it to 7 or 8 values. then create a ramp of 7 or 8 values as above and replace the grey tones with the ramp tones based on how light or dark they are, by painting over them on a new layer.

[TASmith]

rattsang those diagrams are incredible! thank you!

[Saigokarasu]

Alright. I picked out some skin tone variations. One is more with furiae's ideas in mind and the other is considering the indoor lighting. To the left of one palette is the colors for the hair.


The background shall be a light-blueish bed spread with pinkish-lavender walls. I tried to keep that in mind for one of the variations. I am unsure of which would give more appeal: lighting by lamp or lighting through an open window. Which lighting would give her a sexier aura while giving her a sense of cuteness and quirkiness?

[rattsang]

dont be discouraged when you see my attachment, using color is much harder than it looks. the pink ramp will give you exactly the same results as your original post. there is no variation in the hue and the variation in value is too uneven. you need to keep a better eye on the pattern you make with you colors on the triangle, they should move smoothly from one to the next no big jumps. also it sounds like you are not using reference- if you cannot paint skin tones believably from a photo or life it is impossible to do it from your head, it is like trying to run before you can walk. everyone starts from reference.

reference will teach you things- for example, than window light is blue and diffused and halogen lamp light is yellow- orange, diffused with a shade , directional without. diffused light is more flattering, directional is harsh. also using reference will make decisions for you so you dont have to, what ever happens you know the reference is right because it is real.

the color of the skin is dependent on the color of the light source- infact the color of everything is dependent on it. colors lean towards the color of the light source ALWAYS- kind of like wearing tinted glasses but much more subtle.

im not saying you should give up on this image but put it aside for now. find a photo with good lighting and study it carefully.try to copy it using my method. copying isnt cheating its a good way to learn. post your stages and reference photo, it will make it easier to explain using an exact example.

[Saigokarasu]

Last palette....

[Quigleyer]

jesus, you don't usually find stuff like this in the WIP forum.

If I knew how to thank people I would thank you on the forum thing Ratsang.

[rattsang]

hi Saigokarasu,

your colors still dont follow a gently curve, i know i didnt explain it very well so dont be discouraged, i am flying back to ireland today so ive no time for a real reply. i will post a better explaination with examples to compare to your own in a few days- until then i suggest you find a photograph with directional lighting and try to do a black and white copy of it this is essential color practice, even though you dont use color in the copy.

well until then keep slugging away

[rattsang]

ok here is a better explanation, read it carefully it doesnt get any easier than this. if you cant do it the first time you need to study some photos of ppl and try again.

with the ramp you are only aiming for the last photo. notice the huge saturation and hue variations in the posterized one. this is achieved with the hue variations layer indicated previously.

n.b. break it into steps, you seem to be trying to rush the process- it cant be rushed until you understand it.